F-4E is USAF variant.

[Bremspropeller]

The J could dance with a Frecso, too. It's just not that exciting against a late Flogger, where the slats would help quite a bit.

The IDF did rather well in the WoA and YKW, and the slatted aircraft arrived at a fairly late stage.

 

You'll have to see and compare the hard and soft wings within their respective timeframes, each. A '69 hard wing E might contemporarily be more competitive than an early 80s "bells & whistles" slatted Echo. I like em all.

[Northstar98]

23 minutes ago, Gypsy 1-1 said:

Didn't the J/S not have a gun? The Phantom isn't really a dogfighter. 

It does, but via an external gun pod.

[Hummingbird]

@IronMike & @Cobra847 

Are there any plans for the F-4S, or are the F-4E & J the only ones you've officially decided on so far?

[Cobra847]

On 3/17/2022 at 5:56 PM, Hummingbird said:

@IronMike & @Cobra847 

Are there any plans for the F-4S, or are the F-4E & J the only ones you've officially decided on so far?

We'll talk more about Navy variants post release of the -E (and maturity!). Variants are TBD; but expect us to share much of the sentiment in here regarding the Navy variants and thus that does strongly lean towards something like S + J.  

Edited April 18, 2022 by Cobra847

[TLTeo]

On 3/17/2022 at 12:11 PM, Gypsy 1-1 said:

Didn't the J/S not have a gun? The Phantom isn't really a dogfighter. 

Meh. The supposed last of the gunfighters only got 3 gun kills out of a total of 19, and that's with worse missiles than the late USN Phantoms. In a real combat environment (ie not DCS) guns are overrated.

[Fangs Out]

I take it you mean in a dogfight, as a 20mil or 30mil gun is very useful for anti infantry /light armor

 

[TLTeo]

Yeah I meant strictly for air to air

[_BringTheReign_]

4 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

but expect us to share much of the sentiment in here regarding the Navy variants and thus that does strongly lean towards something like S + J

For what it is worth, I strongly agree with this!

• It provides the systems and wing modifications of the later variants 
• If I want to mimic an earlier variant, I can slap on a skin and limit my loadout

[G.J.S]

6 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Meh. The supposed last of the gunfighters only got 3 gun kills out of a total of 19, and that's with worse missiles than the late USN Phantoms. In a real combat environment (ie not DCS) guns are overrated.

But it’s always best to use the Condom mentality - it’s better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. 

[TLTeo]

13 minutes ago, G.J.S said:

But it’s always best to use the Condom mentality - it’s better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. 

Obviously yes, but from there to "Phantoms without the gun weren't dogfighters" is a serious stretch. I don't have a clever analogy though

[Dragon1-1]

In SP, on most DCS missions I didn't have much use for the gun, either. If you've got Sidewinders, then you're better off in a dogfight than with the gun, as long as you remember not to get too close. The Wolfpack didn't use the gunpods on their D-model Phantoms, they preferred Sidewinders. The gun is nice in that it rarely fails (didn't apply to the Crusader with its notoriously unreliable cannons), and that once you get in parameters to fire, it'll hit if you're any good with it. With missiles of the era, it was often a toss-up whether a given one would guide or just fly off into the blue, or refuse to even leave the rail. Even Sidewinders had their problems.

[Gambit21]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:11 AM, Gypsy 1-1 said:

Didn't the J/S not have a gun? The Phantom isn't really a dogfighter. 

Don't tell that to all the pilots who used it in dogfights and did quite well.

I think it's lost sometimes that a dogfight isn't necessarily a minutes long, 'stick to stomach' turning fight to the deck.

[G.J.S]

30 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Don't tell that to all the pilots who used it in dogfights and did quite well.

I think it's lost sometimes that a dogfight isn't necessarily a minutes long, 'stick to stomach' turning fight to the deck.

Very true. Then, as is still now, missiles can be decoyed which - if both aircrew have any moxie in them - will grind the fight down to guns. Guns cannot be decoyed. The F-4, could hold its own rather well, even against newer platforms. You use the best traits that the airframe has, and use them well. Drive the fight and make the opponent fight out of his comfort zone, and in yours. DONT be a gentleman - fight dirty. When it comes down to guns, that’s fine. MiG, SU, Mirage, quite a few western types, have all been surprised by a Phantom driver with fangs out.

 

[sparrow88]

17 hours ago, G.J.S said:

MiG, SU, Mirage, quite a few western types, have all been surprised by a Phantom driver with fangs out.

 

Whats the proper tactics to defeat those never jets with very good nose authority and turn rates?

[SgtPappy]

45 minutes ago, sparrow88 said:

Whats the proper tactics to defeat those never jets with very good nose authority and turn rates?

My guess in an F-4, you would do your best to drain the MiG dry of energy so you can line up a good shot for a rear-aspect heater. Otherwise, try and get a good AIM-7 shot. With the F-4J/S, a working radar would make the latter pretty deadly in an early 70s scenario.

And although the F-4S is an 80s jet, I can see mission designers putting in the same arena as the other mid-Cold War planes.

Edited April 20, 2022 by SgtPappy

[Hummingbird]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:01 PM, Cobra847 said:

We'll talk more about Navy variants post release of the -E (and maturity!). Variants are TBD; but expect us to share much of the sentiment in here regarding the Navy variants and thus that does strongly lean towards something like S + J.  

 

Great to hear Cobra! The S would truly be a dream come true (as is the F-4E).

I can honestly say I haven't looked as much forward to a DCS module since the F-14 

Godspeed on the project! 

[Gwalker99]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:45 PM, 352nd_Hoss said:

Navy Phantoms had Sea Legs...... beefier landing gear. If you remember McNamara tried to push the F-111 off on the Navy and Marine Corp, like they did with the Phantom. The USN was more interested in the Tomcat, now it's the Lightning II. The F-15 variants "Dash" letter has to do with the country we sell it to...... F-15SA, Saudia Arabia, F-15I, IDF, etc.........

He is the same guy who vetoed 30 round magazines for the M16 back in the early 60's due to 'cost'