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Roll Trim can never return to center


pauldy

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*Similar problem with the Su-27 so i have a pretty much the same open thread in there..

Seems that once you trim left or right.. the jet can never go back to perfect center trim again.. Even with engaging auto pilot modes Attitude + Altitude Hold

Since the same thing happens to the Su-27 ... i guess this is an endemic problem in all FC3 aircraft?

Pretty much i'm careful not to trim for left or right roll.. unless needed for asymmetric loads for landings.. (e.g. there are more remaining missiles on one side)

So I also made a track for the Eagle.

I forgot the exact specifics i did but things but after take off:

1. Tried to be in a relatively level attitude, then i fired an AMRAAM from the left pylon.

2. The jet now has asymmetric weight distribution.

3. I then tried to trim the jet to the right, now it seems the jet will eventually dip into the right side.. (that's why i time accelerated)

4. I tried trimming to the left. Now the jet seems so have a dip into the left side (time accelerated too)

5. I fired my right AMRAAM, hoping to make the jet "balanced" again.

6. I repeated trimming either for left or right but the jet can will always have a tendency to dip into left or right side after trimming.. regardless if i enabled Attitude + Altitude hold

I always thought Trimming will help make your aircraft return to a neutral state, regardless if there's some asymmetric load.

f15 trimoff center.trk


Edited by pauldy
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On the Su-27 you can use Trim Reset (Left Control + T), tough that affects pitch trim too ... unfortunately the F-15 does not have this binding.


Edited by Rudel_chw

 

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I know the Eagle doesnt have trim reset. 

The issue i see is that when you trim the ailerons left or right, it can never return to neutral.

Even if you center the trim, the jet would either bank slightly to the left or right, depending on which bank turn you last trimmed for.


Edited by pauldy

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Hey Pauldy: I enjoy flying the 15 quite often & have asked this very question, without a valid response.

The F15 even has a "TO trim" button, which is nice for Smooth Take Off's but when you let go of it "good luck" with normal straight flight.

I understand exactly what Your asking (If the TRIM don't WORK properly why do we have Buttons to Activate/Control it)?

I have even tried several combinations using the "CAS" Computer Augmentation Switches, as yet All to no success.

I too would like some Insight into this Issue. Until then I'll continue to NEVER use TRIM in the F15-C. 🧩

 

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On 2/2/2022 at 6:17 PM, R-22 said:

Hey Pauldy: I enjoy flying the 15 quite often & have asked this very question, without a valid response.

The F15 even has a "TO trim" button, which is nice for Smooth Take Off's but when you let go of it "good luck" with normal straight flight.

I understand exactly what Your asking (If the TRIM don't WORK properly why do we have Buttons to Activate/Control it)?

I have even tried several combinations using the "CAS" Computer Augmentation Switches, as yet All to no success.

I too would like some Insight into this Issue. Until then I'll continue to NEVER use TRIM in the F15-C. 🧩

 

Don't use TO Trim cause it's been bugged for ages, once you disable it jet will pitch up into a stall. Use manual Trim instead. I use external HOTAS controller config app that allows me to program various X and Y axis trim presets. I played with it for a while, testing and tweaking, so I made several Pitch trim profiles that can be toggled by a push of a button on a stick. So before starting every mission I just check my overall weight to get the mental picture which pitch trim preset to use for smooth takeoff.

What's actually very important and what would come handy is implementing a TO calculator to Mission Editor and Briefing screen. Such Takeoff calculator would calculate your V1, Vr - Rotate and V2 speed based upon weight and drag of the selected payload and fuel for DCS and FC3 flyables. Hint for the future patching of DCS.   

 

Best regards,

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Roll trim not returning to center seems to be a thing for every jet in the game.

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14 hours ago, gavagai said:

Roll trim not returning to center seems to be a thing for every jet in the game.

It may be not intentional in DCS implementation but no aircraft or trim gets you perfectly level IRL. This is the AP job. The trim system is designed only to relieve the forces off the stick.

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12 hours ago, draconus said:

It may be not intentional in DCS implementation but no aircraft or trim gets you perfectly level IRL. This is the AP job. The trim system is designed only to relieve the forces off the stick.

There is no need to defend here.  We're simply pointing out that the default trim setting is impossible to return to once you adjust roll trim.

 

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8 hours ago, gavagai said:

There is no need to defend here.  We're simply pointing out that the default trim setting is impossible to return to once you adjust roll trim.

I'm merely suggesting that maybe the default should not be so perfect in the first place?

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3 hours ago, draconus said:

I'm merely suggesting that maybe the default should not be so perfect in the first place?

I see where you are coming from, but the trimming out an airplane should make it fairly stable. In DCS, however, roll can't be trimmed to anything nearly a stable condition. The aircraft just wants to roll to one side or the other.

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Exactly.  I've done some long distance flying.  Correctly trimming an aircraft makes it mostly hands free if the weather is good.

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All I wanted is for the aircraft to return to level roll.. once you trim the ailerons back to center neutral.

Since the Eagle doesn't have reset trimmer functions as those found in the DCS Su-27 & perhaps other Russian FC3 jets...

and, assuming you're still symmetrically loaded... 

 

not have that bank bias either to the left or right that goes on forever and ever ...until you end the mission

 

I know real aircraft cannot have a "perfect level attitude" since it moves through air that behaves like a fluid.. but, DCS hasn't simulated that characteristic of air yet


Edited by pauldy

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agree w/ OP... once you trim roll left/right, you can never return to "perfect" center (non-trimmed roll)

would be nice if ED would look into this

at least put it on the "to do" list 

(please?)

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