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Suggestion for a chargeable MiG21bis II upgrade


Rosebud47

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On 2/15/2022 at 8:45 AM, Hiromachi said:

I still don't understand why F-13 is so popular 🙂

I meanit looks great. Probably best looking 21 with its sleek silhouette but it's capabilities leave a lot to be desired. 

Early Vietnam, plus, it's sexy as hell. 🙂 Also, the F-13 was a great dogfighter, before they piled up all the weight on it. Low wing loading, lightweight, straightforward avionics and decent firepower. What else do you want? 🙂 

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7 hours ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

they could add a historical variant that would combat the F-4 heatblur is putting out. I guess that's the Mig-21 N?

 

The MiG-21Bis saw service with the Soviet VVS at the same time as the HB's F-4E saw service (for example in the European theatre). Historically they are closely related.

Of course in combat, for example over Egypt or Vietnam, the F-4E encountered older models (mainly MiG-21F-13/PF/PFM/MF) because that's what was soviet authorities delivered at the time.

On the other hand during the Iran-Iraq war of the '80s both the F-4E and the MiG-21Bis saw service in the two opposite sides and while there isn't any recorded specific encounter between the two one can use some fantasy to see how it would have played out.

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On 2/27/2022 at 10:10 AM, Red Yeti said:

New model, cleaned up code, realistic armament only, realistic ASP & CCIP and revised sound (include Nin's mod?).
I would pay full price!

 

On 2/27/2022 at 10:20 AM, Red Yeti said:

In the game there is and seems to work via a laser. And that is not correct.

 

5 hours ago, TLTeo said:

That's the point 😛

Sure thing. So what he meant was not "realistic ASP AND CCIP", but "realistic ASP and NO CCIP". Got it?

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  • 1 month later...

I'm new to DCS, but the MiG-21 has been BY FAR my favorite of the modules I've purchased to date, and the one I'm putting 90% of my flight hours into. Bravo to the developers!

For what its worth I'd buy a MiG-21Bis II module in a heartbeat, regardless. But I would be doubly excited about a LanceR or Bison module so as to be more competitive against 4th gen adversaries.

Some of the Vietnam-era variants would be fantastic, but without more of the mid-Cold War era NATO aircraft to match up against, I don't see how they would offer a demonstrably different experience than the Bis. I'd rather have an updated Bis II module than a standalone F-13.

In any case, count me as another 100% committed buyer for another MiG-21 module. 

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My understanding, given a hypothetical module wouldn't be available right away, is that we are thinking of incoming modules, F-4, F-8, A-7, MiG-17, etc. In that environment a new MiG-21 variant would be very welcome.

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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  • 3 weeks later...
27.04.2022 в 17:04, 303_Kermit сказал:

Yeessss... more MiG-21 varints I buy all of them!!!!

Yeeeessss! MF, SM, SMT do it!!! 

That is old stuff, we need MiG 21-93 with R27, R77, and hanging container for KAB-500 etc

mig21-93-9.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Stoikiy said:

That is old stuff, we need MiG 21-93 with R27, R77, and hanging container for KAB-500 etc

mig21-93-9.jpg

Why? Why do we need better 21 ?? Best dogfights are in early '60 until late '80. R27 ?? I couldn't care less. I'd buy any MiG21, but these one is a last on my list. Besides... Where do you want fo use it? It's to modern for Enigma, so... Blueflag Modern? Versus ... F16CM armed with AIM-120C?

I'd rather wait for F4E from Heatblur. If we became an MF from Letherneck it would be a dream team 🙂


Edited by 303_Kermit
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9 часов назад, 303_Kermit сказал:

Why?

because we need more planes which can fight aginst in-game F18 and F16.  Yes, because right now it's F16 VS F18 on most serious servers.
 
so, i will pay, only for modern variants MiG 21-93  or MiG 21-2000 
especially because MiG 21-2000 was made from MiG 21 Bis which we have atm

+

not many people like fly on old planes if they play MP most of the time. Most of the players will pay for modern upgrade i think 🙂

mig21-2000-4.jpg


Edited by Stoikiy
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39 minutes ago, Stoikiy said:

not many people like fly on old planes if they play MP most of the time. Most of the players will pay for modern upgrade i think 🙂

If you believe that my understanding is you didn't read the thread at all, right? 🤣 I believe more modern variants of the MiG-21 won't change the fact that it would face way better aircraft in front of it and you won't stand a chance. Few people would pay for that. But in Cold War servers and missions people would make good use of older variants 😉 .

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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5 минут назад, Ala13_ManOWar сказал:

If you believe that my understanding is you didn't read the thread at all, right? 🤣 I believe more modern variants of the MiG-21 won't change the fact that it would face way better aircraft in front of it and you won't stand a chance. Few people would pay for that. But in Cold War servers and missions people would make good use of older variants 😉 .

i readed couple pages 🙂

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Fully accurate MiG-21 LanceR gameplay:

1)Take off

2)Get lost in bad weather and crash

3)Respawn in with CSAR Heli module (your choice between Mi-8 and UH-1)

4)Repeat step 2

5)Close game, proceed to buy an F-16 module key from a Norway reseller

(Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events, is purely coincidental)

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14 hours ago, Stoikiy said:



not many people like fly on old planes if they play MP most of the time. Most of the players will pay for modern upgrade i think 🙂

 

 

Wrong. Most populated server in DCS is Enigma. MiG-21+MiG-19 vs F-5E+AJS37. No F18, no F16, no F15, no Fox3. Only very limited MiG-29 and F-14 with fox1.

7 hours ago, Alexmarine said:

Fully accurate MiG-21 LanceR gameplay:

1)Take off

2)Get lost in bad weather and crash

3)Respawn in with CSAR Heli module (your choice between Mi-8 and UH-1)

4)Repeat step 2

5)Close game, proceed to buy an F-16 module key from a Norway reseller

(Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events, is purely coincidental)

Learn to fly. For MiG-21 you need a pilot. For F-16 an IT is enough...

 


Edited by 303_Kermit
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22 hours ago, 303_Kermit said:

Wrong. Most populated server in DCS is Enigma. MiG-21+MiG-19 vs F-5E+AJS37. No F18, no F16, no F15, no Fox3. Only very limited MiG-29 and F-14 with fox1.

Given that its the F-4E being developed, I imagine more players would rather see a fully updated/improved Bis II module than a PF, MF, etc.

The F4-E and Bis feel more like peer variants than the -E and a PF/MF would be, given that the former are the 'ultimate' expression of its parent type, IMHO. With the obvious matchup of the F-4 and MiG-21 as adversaries for Cold War multiplayer, it feels fairer/more balanced as well. (Especially given the lack of GCI in the base game.)

I'd be MUCH more excited and for a Bis II than a spanking-new PF/MF (let alone an F-13) that's even more outclassed against the vast majority of other DCS aircraft.

I doubt I'm alone in that. 

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On 4/29/2022 at 7:19 PM, Stoikiy said:

because we need more planes which can fight aginst in-game F18 and F16.  Yes, because right now it's F16 VS F18 on most serious servers.
 
so, i will pay, only for modern variants MiG 21-93  or MiG 21-2000 
especially because MiG 21-2000 was made from MiG 21 Bis which we have atm

+

not many people like fly on old planes if they play MP most of the time. Most of the players will pay for modern upgrade i think 🙂

mig21-2000-4.jpg

I would rather have even earlier versions than we already have, and I don't enjoy flying modern stuff in MP at all. Maybe you won't see it watching the popular DCS videos on Youtube, but there are a lot of us who really don't find 40+ mile BVR with active missiles interesting at all.

Besides which, there's still only so much you can do. You still only have 4 hardpoints, now carrying even larger and draggier missiles, your radar is still limited by size, albeit to a lesser extent thanks to modern technology, and you're still trying to fight jets which can effortlessly sustain turn rates in excess of 15-18 degrees per second in a jet that struggles to sustain much beyond 12. You're still going to be at a disadvantage, except now the plane has lost the characteristics that made it fun in the first place, and you don't have such huge bragging rights when you do kill some clueless 4th gen.

Additionally, 21-93 was a technology demonstrator which never made any sales. 21-2000 as well. At least Bison and LanceR saw service.


Edited by rossmum
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5 часов назад, rossmum сказал:

I would rather have even earlier versions than we already have, and I don't enjoy flying modern stuff in MP at all.

Im agree with that
 

 

5 часов назад, rossmum сказал:

Additionally, 21-93 was a technology demonstrator which never made any sales. 

That is not true. Modifications was made for indian air forces.  They upgraded a lot MiG21 to 93 variant  

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On 4/29/2022 at 11:19 AM, Stoikiy said:

because we need more planes which can fight aginst in-game F18 and F16. 
 

 

It's not MiG-21 you're talking about. It would be any IV+ generation fighter with modern FOX-3 rockets. Not a 50 year old plane armed with FOX-1.

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The MiG-21 was the first module that I bought in 2014(!) and is still my favourite next to the AV-8B. I bought it at a discount for far less than I spent on newer modules which I haven't clocked even close as many hours into at all. And although I still consider the MiG not finalized (Will I ever be able to map KPP controls to my throttle?) I'd preorder every new MiG-21 variant anyway, as well as any SU-17/22 (pretty, pretty please!) as soon as possible. Personally I am more interested in modernised versions, but I see why early versions also appeal to people.

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  • 1 month later...

Fishbeds I'd pay additional dough on:

- The F-13. Everybody flew it and it's secksea. No BS daylight fighter.

- The PF/ PFM (or any weird intermezzo like the PFS, gun or no gun). Light, secksea, no BS.

- Any kind of MiG-21 trainers, that's the U thru UM. There are small- and large-tail Us. No BS, except now you can bring a chick.

 

I'm partial on the M and MF - tending towards *pass* as they're already unpleasingly fat and ugly. Anything else (fatbacks, TV-screens, etc) is just a big turnoff to me.

So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!

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PF/PFM would be a pass for me. Never liked that gen of 21, and does't have the cool factor and famed handling of F-13 to redeem itself. R,MF, etc: Bis but slightly worse, so aside from (non existent) historical lineups I don't see their point.

F-13: yaaay, TV-screens: yaaay, at least in case of the MiG :D, late F-7/J-7 with single piece windscreen and double delta wings: super yaaay 😛

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

DCS-Dismounts Script

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