Manuevre Flaps Bug

[WinOrLose]

Following the latest path the thumb wheel control of the manuevre flaps no longer appears to be working.

The keybind (uses the same as DLC, which is working) but manual control of the manuevres is not.

This was the same for my buddy.

 

[WinOrLose]

Update - they worked in flight but not on the ground.

[Stickler]

Confirmed. Maneuver flap control with DLC thumbwheel impossible on ground, but works once airborne. 2.7.10.19402. Never had this issue before.

[Stickler]

Just tried with today's hotfix and everything was fine again. I'll report if the problem resurfaces.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Stickler

[captain_dalan]

Fine here as well. Just tested on the Syria instant actions
 

[cw4ogden]

Had this problem last night in f-14a.  Maneuvering flaps would only extend once airborne.  Tried everything and eventually had to take off to convince myself it wasn't a binding problem.  

[draconus]

Tried last night, all fine on the A. Do you guys still have a problem with this? Which version of aircraft?

[cw4ogden]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

Which version of aircraft?

I've seen it on both A and B models now.  Unless there is something I'm missing in how they work.  Last night I sat on the catapult and pushed pulled and wiggled every combination of buttons I could think of - I then tried putting the main flaps down and pressing the DLC buttons then cycling them up and trying, but no maneuver flaps.  They seem to come back and operate after takeoff, but not always right away.  A couple of times even after takeoff they did not want to respond.  

Very possible it's a minutia detail I missed somewhere, but currently my maneuver flaps only work about 50% if I had to guess.

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, cw4ogden said:

I then tried putting the main flaps down and pressing the DLC buttons then cycling them up and trying, but no maneuver flaps

To take control of maneuvering slats and flaps the flaps lever has to be set fully forward - you then control it with maneuver flaps/DLC wheel. Check action of the bound buttons (or axis) by testing DLC on the ground (wings forwards, full flaps down, engage DLC, test and look at the spoilers).

[cw4ogden]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Check action of the bound buttons (or axis) by testing DLC on the ground

On the ground is precisely where it's not working.  It's not that it's not working at all.    It appears they are just not working "On the ground."   It works fine in the air. 

Cold start from supercarrier, I have wings fully forward in auto - reset button pressed, no lights on the caution panel.  I've tried with and without autopilot switch on.  I've tried cycling the flaps down to put the aircraft in the landing configuration "engaging DLC" then raising the flap handle back up.  Nothing seems to fix it until I take off and fly around for X number of minutes.   

Other times it works just fine from the first DLC thumbwheel pull, so it's either something on startup I'm missing, or a bug / mod conflict.

I'm not ruling out user error, but I just can't nail down what the heck it could be.

Edited February 21, 2022 by cw4ogden

[cw4ogden]

Here are three track file examples.  All same behavior.  First two I deployed half flaps before takeoff because the DLC system / maneuvering flaps would not deploy.  Retracted after takeoff and after a few moments the maneuvering flaps work fine.  Last one I left the flap handle up the entire time.  No flap takeoff and same thing.  Nothing on maneuvering flaps controls until the aircraft is airborne. 

First one was too big so only two tracks.

(Edit): might be related to DCS liberation.  Those tracks are from a liberation mission.  Instant action and various prebuilt missions the maneuvering flaps seem to work fine on the ground.

maneuver flaps3.trk maneuver flaps2.trk

Edited February 21, 2022 by cw4ogden

[Flash_111]

This is not a control binding or flap handle configuration issue.

I figured out the cause, or at least a way to reproduce the phenomenon. I was actually going to make a post about this but when I found this one figured I would post here. So yeah, it occurs when there is a higher than standard altimeter setting when sitting an airfield close to sea level such that- if the altimeter were set to 29.92 you would be reading below sea level. Same airport with 29.92 pressure in the mission maker and maneuvering flaps will work normally. Basically if you are sitting on the ground below 0 feet pressure altitude, they won't work. This also explains why the flaps work in flight. On a related note, I suspect this also has an effect on the bomb computer's ballistic calculations. We noticed all of our bombs going long and it was because of the non-standard pressure. We were able to get good drops if we used incorrect elevation data during the alignment.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Flash_111

[cw4ogden]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:03 PM, Flash_111 said:

This is not a control binding or flap handle configuration issue.

I figured out the cause, or at least a way to reproduce the phenomenon. I was actually going to make a post about this but when I found this one figured I would post here. So yeah, it occurs when there is a higher than standard altimeter setting when sitting an airfield close to sea level such that- if the altimeter were set to 29.92 you would be reading below sea level. Same airport with 29.92 pressure in the mission maker and maneuvering flaps will work normally. Basically if you are sitting on the ground below 0 feet pressure altitude, they won't work. This also explains why the flaps work in flight. On a related note, I suspect this also has an effect on the bomb computer's ballistic calculations. We noticed all of our bombs going long and it was because of the non-standard pressure. We were able to get good drops if we used incorrect elevation data during the alignment.

 

Nice work!  Do you have a track file by chance so we can get this listed as a bug officially?

[Flash_111]

I don't know why you would need a track. I very clearly listed the steps to reproduce and diagnosed a possible cause, or at least enough for the team to get off in the right direction. It may be fixed in today's update anyway, who knows.

[draconus]

6 hours ago, Flash_111 said:

I don't know why you would need a track. I very clearly listed the steps to reproduce and diagnosed a possible cause, or at least enough for the team to get off in the right direction. It may be fixed in today's update anyway, who knows.

The track is not for him - it's for the devs - they need it, that's how they work, don't ask. Anyway I can reproduce. The track shows nothing really - that's me trying to set maneuvering flaps This is after today's update.

F-14B man flaps.trk

[cw4ogden]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:03 PM, Flash_111 said:

This is not a control binding or flap handle configuration issue.

I figured out the cause, or at least a way to reproduce the phenomenon. I was actually going to make a post about this but when I found this one figured I would post here. So yeah, it occurs when there is a higher than standard altimeter setting when sitting an airfield close to sea level such that- if the altimeter were set to 29.92 you would be reading below sea level. Same airport with 29.92 pressure in the mission maker and maneuvering flaps will work normally. Basically if you are sitting on the ground below 0 feet pressure altitude, they won't work. This also explains why the flaps work in flight.

@IronMike This looks ready to be put on the bug list. 

[IronMike]

Thank you guys, we're looking into it as we speak.

[lester]

Have a question: after the last OB in standard F-14A Case 1 CV-59 instant action mission I regularly use to practice CASE 1 recovery, when Tomcat is almost above the deck and I actively use DLC to trap (which I usually do) it looks like as if it suddenly stops having any effect despite DLC Thumbwheel being fully forward. Didn't observe this behavior before. Did anyone experienced this? Is it related to this issue? Thanks

[IronMike]

14 minutes ago, lester said:

Have a question: after the last OB in standard F-14A Case 1 CV-59 instant action mission I regularly use to practice CASE 1 recovery, when Tomcat is almost above the deck and I actively use DLC to trap (which I usually do) it looks like as if it suddenly stops having any effect despite DLC Thumbwheel being fully forward. Didn't observe this behavior before. Did anyone experienced this? Is it related to this issue? Thanks

Could be, but not sure. Do you see the DLC spoilers extend/ retract?

[lester]

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

Could be, but not sure. Do you see the DLC spoilers extend/ retract?

I definitely saw them extending/retracting on the groove (and earlier), I was concentrated on the deck at the final moments, but again the impression was as if DLC stopped working right above the deck. I tried to save the track, but it didn't match. Let me try one more time.

[IronMike]

7 hours ago, lester said:

I definitely saw them extending/retracting on the groove (and earlier), I was concentrated on the deck at the final moments, but again the impression was as if DLC stopped working right above the deck. I tried to save the track, but it didn't match. Let me try one more time.

If they worked in general, there is no reason why they would stop working right above the deck. Maybe that was the burble that you experienced? You can test simply flying around and see if they work (visually) and have an impact on your lift/drag.

[lester]

5 hours ago, IronMike said:

If they worked in general, there is no reason why they would stop working right above the deck. Maybe that was the burble that you experienced? You can test simply flying around and see if they work (visually) and have an impact on your lift/drag.

Yeah, I double-checked today: don't see this behavior anymore, must have been something on my end. Thanks for the clarifications!

[IronMike]

8 minutes ago, lester said:

Yeah, I double-checked today: don't see this behavior anymore, must have been something on my end. Thanks for the clarifications!

Glad to hear!