AIM54 Launches Messing Up TWS

[Hawkeye91]

I was in the RIO seat and every time I pressed missile launch, it created some very messed up trackfiles. Each ghost you see appeared after I pressed the launch button from the back seat. I had the missile speed gate set to nose. I don't know if this creates some kind of bug. I've never seen this happen before.

[WelshZeCorgi]

I wonder if the radar is picking up the PH just launched and that messes up the tracks.

[IronMike]

There was a hotfix regarding network protocol, which seemed affecting weapons, crashes and was related to clients joining the server. Not sure if related, but please take a look if after updating you still experience this. It looks like lag/ desync for sure, caused by the weapon launch somehow.

[Hawkeye91]

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

There was a hotfix regarding network protocol, which seemed affecting weapons, crashes and was related to clients joining the server. Not sure if related, but please take a look if after updating you still experience this. It looks like lag/ desync for sure, caused by the weapon launch somehow.

Shouldn't be a network issue, I was playing in my single player test mission. I retested again and it didn't happen but I was slightly more offset from the target. I think @WelshZeCorgi is on to something. It seemed like the radar was picking up the missile launches messing with the TWS trackfiles. I'm not sure why it would, but that's what appeared to be happening. I'll see if I can recreate.

[DoorMouse]

Thank you for posting this, I had been meaning to start to document this as well. The AWG 9 certainly is older and should be more temperamental, but this bug happens on a daily basis and happens in any condition other than solo play. It's most frustrating when the actual target never moved and the track goes flying off into the distance.

Edit-

@Hawkeye91Seeing this in single player is interesting. Maybe this has to do with ED's head scratcher of a decision to make the RCS of missiles so large that they appear on radar, or you get aim120s breaking lock of a tomcat to track an aim9 instead... I bet it is when they fire the merged contact (known real historical limitation) messes up the awg9.

The real issue is that I'm pretty sure the awg9 wouldn't pick up missile sized objects at 60 miles...

Edited February 10, 2022 by DoorMouse

[Sideburns]

When I saw this before, TWS reliably loosing track when launching head to head at targets, I did think perhaps the AIM54 was "blocking" the radar return of the target. Seems to be better these days and I found launching with a slight offset would reduce the chances of it happening. Quite often on MP though it was down to people doing a significant direction change manoeuvre after my launch. Have not tested since latest protocol version hotfix.

@DoorMousetracking missiles is mentioned in this episode of the Tomcast, but hot rather than cold and a rather large naval SAM. (45:08 in case the link doesn't go to the right time, whole episode is worth watching for a great overview of the AWG-9)

 

[Hawkeye91]

2 hours ago, DoorMouse said:

Thank you for posting this, I had been meaning to start to document this as well. The AWG 9 certainly is older and should be more temperamental, but this bug happens on a daily basis and happens in any condition other than solo play. It's most frustrating when the actual target never moved and the track goes flying off into the distance.

Edit-

@Hawkeye91Seeing this in single player is interesting. Maybe this has to do with ED's head scratcher of a decision to make the RCS of missiles so large that they appear on radar, or you get aim120s breaking lock of a tomcat to track an aim9 instead... I bet it is when they fire the merged contact (known real historical limitation) messes up the awg9.

The real issue is that I'm pretty sure the awg9 wouldn't pick up missile sized objects at 60 miles...

 

This wasn’t caused by the contact firing a missile but caused when I would fire a missile. I think perhaps it’s as @Sideburns said that my own missile launch screwed up the TWS auto logical, possibly following the missile instead of the contacts, and if the WCS is moving itself at a high rate trying to keep the scan volume on the contacts AND the fired missile it might trash the shot and create some very messed up track files. I do agree though, adding RCS to missiles has added nothing of value to DCS and has only detracted from the realistic experience by creating way too many comical situations by people being to use their own missiles as defense systems and spoofing fox 3s by launching and also the monkey wrench it has thrown into all of the radar systems. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Hawkeye91

[DoorMouse]

18 minutes ago, Hawkeye91 said:

This wasn’t caused by the contact firing a missile but caused when I would fire a missile. I think perhaps it’s as @Sideburns said that my own missile launch screwed up the TWS auto logical, possibly following the missile instead of the contacts, and if the WCS is moving itself at a high rate trying to keep the scan volume on the contacts AND the fired missile it might trash the shot and create some very messed up track files. I do agree though, adding RCS to missiles has added nothing of value to DCS and has only detracted from the realistic experience by creating way too many comical situations by people being to use their own missiles as defense systems and spoofing fox 3s by launching and also the monkey wrench it has thrown into all of the radar systems. 

 

Oh my god that is plausible.

 

The TWS weighting right now is pulling targets under missile attack out of the radar cone... Add in that ED has for some reason made missiles have the same RCS as a jf17 or F5... The AWG 9 thinks that contact is a bogey which is a mile in front of you, and it has a very large Doppler signal. Then It slews the radar and trashes the lock.

 

Could be. Something is definitely screwed up

[Max Mak]

This TWS behaviour seems now a common issue in DCS… like I reported several months ago for the F-18 TWS issue.