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Rafale M - F1 standard


Ghost33

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Let me start with some context:
- We now have all the modern US jet we could possibly have in DCS with the AV8B, F14, F16, F/A-18 and the F15E coming this year.
- US naval aviation is well represented in the game with the AV8B, F14 and F/A-18 and the incoming F4, F8, A6, and A7 modules.

There is now a need to explore new horizons for modern jets, which Heatblur and TrueGrit are inaugurating with the Typhoon, a future module who's already getting a lot of attention from the DCS players.
Naval Aviation is awesome and cannot be only represented by US jets, I think other non-US carrier capable aircrafts would get a lot of attention from the DCS players as well.

This is why the Rafale M seems like an obvious choice as it answers these two needs !

The F1 standard with air-to-air only capacities and PESA radar is comparable to the Typhoon we should be getting in the game in terms of mordernity/classification. Heatblur/Truegrit is showing us it is possible to bring such a jet in DCS. So why not a Rafale ? 😁

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Would love to see Rafale M, its nr.1 on my wish list, but as far as I know atm sadly there is very slim chance since Dassault is not giving any permission on that 😞

 

There was a threat on it some time ago:

 

And even a pettition:

 

Many signed it, and the guy told me Dassault turned them down,

 

But as time passes maybe things change, who knows...

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You can get dassault to support your mod and use their trademark names, their website even used to have a section for licensed sims. The problem is they apparently charge a lot of money for this, to the tune of thousands of dollars and cease and desist those that don’t pay up or use names like “rc01” and “m2000” and then your on your own for data. I think the Rafale as a decent chance though with its recent export success. F1 standard is very simple.

I have some papers on “RADANT” the basis of RBE2 PESA giving a basic idea how it works.



https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/P ... d39e38af2f

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA301940.pdf

https://patents.justia.com/assignee/thomson-csf-radant

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/en ... nned-array

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articl ... ys-part-ii

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/d ... 1&type=pdf

Official modes and capabilities 

https://omnirole-rafale.com/avionique/rbe2/

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, F-2 said:

You can get dassault to support your mod and use their trademark names, their website even used to have a section for licensed sims. The problem is they apparently charge a lot of money for this, to the tune of thousands of dollars and cease and desist those that don’t pay up or use names like “rc01” and “m2000” and then your on your own for data. I think the Rafale as a decent chance though with its recent export success. F1 standard is very simple.

I have some papers on “RADANT” the basis of RBE2 PESA giving a basic idea how it works.



https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/P ... d39e38af2f

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA301940.pdf

https://patents.justia.com/assignee/thomson-csf-radant

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/en ... nned-array

https://www.microwavejournal.com/articl ... ys-part-ii

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/d ... 1&type=pdf

Official modes and capabilities 

https://omnirole-rafale.com/avionique/rbe2/

 

 

 

Thanks for all this info F-2 !

i am being optimistic and hope we'll see it in the sim one day. I think there is a good chance it might happen if DCS players want it and a big dev (ED, HB or Razbam) wants to do it !

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3 hours ago, Ghost33 said:

The F1 standard with air-to-air only capacities and PESA radar is comparable to the Typhoon we should be getting in the game in terms of mordernity/classification. Heatblur/Truegrit is showing us it is possible to bring such a jet in DCS. So why not a Rafale ? 😁

Remember it's not Heatblur who is making Eurofighter - it's a TrueGrit German company owned by real life Eurofighter pilot Gero Finke. HB is just to help them with some technicals as DCS experienced 3rd party. So many guys are forgetting completely who is making EF since HB cooperation...

Both Heatblur and ED stated they would never be able to make Eurofighter in DCS and that is ONLY due to TrueGrit with real life EF pilot with Luftwaffe and aircraft manufacturer connections.

 

In short - without some French 3rd party with real life Rafale pilots there is not a slightest chance for Rafale module resembling the real plane at all. And even then it could be impossible since French Air Force is apparently way more serious when it comes to their military sercets.

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1 hour ago, bies said:

Remember it's not Heatblur who is making Eurofighter - it's a TrueGrit German company owned by real life Eurofighter pilot Gero Finke. HB is just to help them with some technicals as DCS experienced 3rd party. So many guys are forgetting completely who is making EF since HB cooperation...

Both Heatblur and ED stated they would never be able to make Eurofighter in DCS and that is ONLY due to TrueGrit with real life EF pilot with Luftwaffe and aircraft manufacturer connections.

 

In short - without some French 3rd party with real life Rafale pilots there is not a slightest chance for Rafale module resembling the real plane at all. And even then it could be impossible since French Air Force is apparently way more serious when it comes to their military sercets.

I agree with you for the necessary input of French Rafale pilots with if possible close relations to Dassault.

Regarding the AdA, they have a partnership with Razbam, a South American company if I’m not mistaken, for the M2000C. Offering Razbam lots of infos and data on the real jet, making it one of the most realistic module lately. And despite being old, the jet is still in service as of today, retiring later this year.

So they might not be not as closed to the idea as we think 😉


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Apparently the book

”rafale marine, essais en vol pour navaliser un chasseur”

has a ton of data and energy charts from the Rafale M’s test at Lakehurst. I ordered a copy

Quote

Received superb book but be careful... it's 100% technical, we are sitting in the flight test cabin at the edge of the runway. A large part of the book is devoted to the tests carried out in Lakehurst

Fingers crossed!

Rafale F1 has a different mission computer then the later ones with different avionics(simpler), I think used from some other aircraft, I’ll keep looking.

AAFEE6F7-2F24-4152-8946-891B9B488E8D.png

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18 hours ago, F-2 said:

Apparently the book

”rafale marine, essais en vol pour navaliser un chasseur”

has a ton of data and energy charts from the Rafale M’s test at Lakehurst. I ordered a copy

Fingers crossed!

Rafale F1 has a different mission computer then the later ones with different avionics(simpler), I think used from some other aircraft, I’ll keep looking.

AAFEE6F7-2F24-4152-8946-891B9B488E8D.png

Awesome, do you have a link where I can order it ?

And yes, as far as I know, the F1 used different systems. This is why I precised F1 in the title. It is not in service anymore and different from the current ones. Making it possible to bring to DCS imho.

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It would be great to have Rafale, another EU plane, coming to DCS, it would make the sim much more diverse and interesting. EF is already making its way into DCS, altho I'm not a fan of the plane, that's really good and I'm happy about it cause its paving the way for other such modules.

There are lots of youtube videos with view of the systems, even carrier recovery video and documents online, so sad that the french don't love us virtual pilots as we love their plane.

Rafale is very popular, and I'm sure ED is trying to bring it to us, it would bring us all (ED and simmers) lots of happiness 😉

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So I got the book and it real does have a lot of very good info. It’s basically 350 pages on Rafale M01 does carrier ops. Detailed write ups of take off and landing tests, how the aircraft takes stress from landings, acceleration on the catapult, how the aircraft behaves at different approach speeds, angles of attack, loads and fuel states. How the landing gear works etc. anyone who thinks of doing a Rafale will find it useful.

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Not sure if you all are aware of it but there is currently a Rafale M and other variants  MOD available. I know its not exactly what you desire but at least someone else has been working towards bringing the best possible representation to DCS. The A-4 Skyhawk has proven how good a community mod can be. So until Desault grants a license to ED or another 3rd party to be able to do a full fidelity simulation a community mod is the best you can hope for.

 

 

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Quote

In December 1984, rAcx was presented as a multi-purpose aircraft capable of carrying out air superiority, penetration and reconnaissance support missions. Compared to the Mirage 2000 equipped with the M53-P2 engine, renon offered better downward visibility, had a 16 cm wider cockpit with better habitability, better layout of the ergonomics of the cockpit instruments, three hardpoints of pMs for a total of twelve and better performance: • an approach speed lowered by 20% or 118 kts against 143 las: • a landing length lowered by 450th or 320 m against 580 m; • a take-off run length reduced by 35%, ie 510 m against 760 m; • a mancerere limit at 200 Its/20,000 kts improved by 20%, ie 3.9 g against 3.25 g; • an improved climbing speed of 65%, ie 180 m/s against 110 m/s; • an acceleration of 200 kts at Mach 0.9 improved by 28% or 27 s against 37 S.
For the mission of nuclear penetration at low altitude, it was planned that rAcx, configure with a ventral tank of 1,000 Liters, with an ASILE missile at points 1 under the wing and with a Matra R550 Magic 2 missile at the end of the ale, carrying 5 440 liters of oil internally, can ensure a penetration mission in IRA with a range of 900 km at an altitude of 300 ft at 420 kts, including two accelerations to 550 kts over 500 km. The technical clauses accepted by Inc official services dated October 21, 1983, The construction of the prototype began in March 1984 in the prototype workshop of AMD-BA in Saint-Cloud. on December 15, 1985, the plane was transferred by road to Istres, where the ground vibration tests began and Ms

https://issuu.com/infopro/docs/sommaire_avions_nucleaires
 

Quote

The aircraft, while able to fly at 800 knots near ground level, will be capable of turns under in excess of
6 g's stabilized in transonic flights at 20,000 feet and under 9 g's stabilized neargroundlevel. Itwillmakeitsapproachatlessthan120knotsandwill landinapproximately300meters. TheRafalewillhavetheThomson-CSFRDX radar, a multimode radar capable of detecting and tracking eight targets simultaneously at any altitude, especially hedgehopping targets. Pulse compression and Doppler beam concentration will be used to increase angular and range difinition as well as to avoid low altitude ground echoes and reflection from water. 

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA349263.pdf

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Rafale would be awesome, but I heard Dassault is a royal PITA to work with. It is true we're running out of well known and popular airframes, at least as far as the modern era goes. There is, however, plenty of older variants, less well known jets and the like to choose from. Plus, let's just finish the stuff that's been started. 🙂 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/28/2022 at 6:01 PM, Evoman said:

Not sure if you all are aware of it but there is currently a Rafale M and other variants  MOD available. I know its not exactly what you desire but at least someone else has been working towards bringing the best possible representation to DCS. The A-4 Skyhawk has proven how good a community mod can be. So until Desault grants a license to ED or another 3rd party to be able to do a full fidelity simulation a community mod is the best you can hope for.

 

 

To be fair. The A-4E-C (and others), are not mods, but full blown community modules. 😉
Haven't tried the Rafale so don't know which category it fits.
 

Cheers!

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10 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

To be fair. The A-4E-C (and others), are not mods, but full blown community modules. 😉
Haven't tried the Rafale so don't know which category it fits.
 

Cheers!

I've tried Rafale mod, those ppl are doing their best but its quality is not as good as Raptor or Blackhawk mods. Would be more happy with official module if Dassault ever decides to show us virtual pilots some love as do to for their aircraft.

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3 hours ago, Furiz said:

I've tried Rafale mod, those ppl are doing their best but its quality is not as good as Raptor or Blackhawk mods. Would be more happy with official module if Dassault ever decides to show us virtual pilots some love as do to for their aircraft.

But is it a mod, like it needs FC3 or similar?
Cheers! 

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