Jump to content

Carrier landing-how much nose down is too much


ruddy122

Recommended Posts

In real life besides the AOA and the meatball what is too much nose down

 

I trap in DCS with less than 5 nose down but I feel the bug could do more

 

Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick:

Computer Specs

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m an old USAF guy and I think I’m unconsciously flaring the Hornet

I should know better but it’s in my muscle memory


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AF guys don’t want to bend the gear so we flare


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick:

Computer Specs

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny story I dropped a KC-10A at Luke

Here I am with 59 F-16 pilots and I closed the Throttle at 50 feet. All I heard on the Radar Altimeter was 50, 10 and my IP gasped

That plane landed so hard I thought Luke runway had a divot from me

I landed on the 1000 ft marker


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick:

Computer Specs

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just fly it to the deck, all the way down, maintaining AOA. The landing "should come as a surprise" and the deceleration due to catching a wire as another surprise after that.

The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.

CVW-17_Profile_Background_VFA-34.png

F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3
-
i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ruddy122 said:

 

In real life besides the AOA and the meatball what is too much nose down

 

I trap in DCS with less than 5 nose down but I feel the bug could do more

 

Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Well, in a Hornet sim chair, even with perfectly modelled FM and damage... we could do case 1 pattern in the vertical and probably get very good at it... 🤠

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

No, it's 8.1 degrees up. 😉

It's 8.1 degrees of AoA. On a 3 degree glideslope, the nose itself should be roughly 5 degrees above the horizon line.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

REAPER 51 | Tholozor
VFA-136 (c.2007): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3305981/
Arleigh Burke Destroyer Pack (2020): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313752/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but you use the E-bracket for AoA. The VV and bracket could be on the horizon line and the nose would be up at about 8 degrees on the pitch ladder. You'd be on-speed, but not on glideslope. If you're on-speed and on glideslope, the nose would be at about 5 degrees on the pitch ladder.

REAPER 51 | Tholozor
VFA-136 (c.2007): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3305981/
Arleigh Burke Destroyer Pack (2020): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313752/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ruddy -- can I ask an aerodynamics question?

Trying to wrap my head around the physics. 

Let's say you call the ball and find that your AoA is perfect and you're right on the glidepath and your speed is perfect.  Would it be fair to say, you can't change one of those things without changing another?  Would it be more fair to say you can't change one without changing all of them? 

Are you saying, then that you prefer to come in a little fast and then nail your speed/AoA during the flare?  If so, that would be a shallower glide path, no? 

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

W close to 5 Nose up and VV at line or slightly Negative if VV too negative you damage gear

So I'm doing it right

Thought I was nuts

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick:

Computer Specs

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, DeltaMike said:

Ruddy -- can I ask an aerodynamics question?

Trying to wrap my head around the physics. 

Let's say you call the ball and find that your AoA is perfect and you're right on the glidepath and your speed is perfect.  Would it be fair to say, you can't change one of those things without changing another?  Would it be more fair to say you can't change one without changing all of them? 

Are you saying, then that you prefer to come in a little fast and then nail your speed/AoA during the flare?  If so, that would be a shallower glide path, no? 

After you set "on speed AoA" with your trim, giving more thrust you will increase your speed, which will increase your lift, and vica versa. If you are below glideslope, you need to add thrust to come back up on glideslope. If you are above, you need to reduce your thrust a bit to come down on glideslope. And when you are back on glideslope, you need to reset your trust to keep proper descend speed so that the Ball (or the GS needle) stays "centered".

Beyond that, I'm not sure I understand your question.


Edited by Razor18
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, BuzzU said:

I never look at the speed when landing the Hornet.

You are basicly right, but during miniscule thrust corrections it never hurts to note which speed value was "right" for the proper descent speed or for horizontal flight on the downwind leg for that matter. Also, by peeking at the speed (especially its "trend", just if it is increasing or decreasing), you can better predict and lead your thrust corrections, as the difference between "sinking 500 f/min" or "climbing 500 f/min is a matter of only a couple of knots of forward speed, which is in turn a matter of only a couple of mm (or tenth of an inch for the imperial guys' sake 😊 ) in throttle position.

Simple reason for it is, Velocity Vector vertical position (change) is always lagging behind speed change, and speed change is always lagging behind throttle change. By a quick look at the speed once in a  while, you can "split the difference" for a better outcome.


Edited by Razor18
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's talk about aerodynamics in general, before talking about the Hornet specifically.

1.  A given aircraft won't always stall at the same speed, but it'll always stall at the same AoA.  That's the theory behind the on-speed/AoA approach, fly it down at just above stall speed, pull back on the stick when you're six inches off the ground, done.

2.  When you're flying around at high AoA like that, throttle no longer controls speed, it controls vertical velocity.  You use pitch to control speed.  Thus AoA = speed, under those conditions.  

I think it follows, then, that if you want to control both forward and vertical velocity, you are locked into both a given AoA AND a given glide path.  Yes? No?

So I think what Ruddy might be asking can be bifurcated, with the general aerodynamic question being, can you land "A" plane (such as an A4 for example) with a lower AoA ... well, really, under any circumstances.  Obvious answer is "yes," you land it just like you land an F15, come in fast and flat and sorta gradually approach your target AoA as you flare, and set it down nice and easy Air Force style.  With the related question being, can you do that on a carrier, and the answer is probably no... there's no guarantee of even catching the 1 wire cuz there's kind of a tendency to bounce over it.  Maybe if you catch it at the last possible second, and suffer the scorn of the LSO? Still, the meatball is useless there, so it'll be all eyeballs...

Then the other question is, can you do that in an F18?  Which is a slightly different question because the flight computer kinda "locks in" the AoA for ya.  Which I suspect, but can't quite prove to myself, locks you into a glidepath as well.  Given how the system is set up, I think there's only one way to land it really.  Which is good, I guess.  All you gotta do is control the throttle and you can't miss. 

The A4 is almost like that, but not quite.  You gotta work both the throttle and the stick, in other words you have to be mindful of both your forward and vertical speed.  One way of looking at it is, the Hornet regulates your speed for you, all you have to do is stay on the glideslope

If so, perhaps the answer to Ruddy's question is, "no."  But, I'm not sure cuz my brain is melting

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DeltaMike has it right

Remember also F/A-18 is a Fly-By-Wire jet and you can fight the FBW which is bad

Normally if you screw up significantly (for example really big throttle input) one parameter it takes a while to settle the plane down because everything airspeed, vvi, AOA, etc. is related

Small but positive corrections you will be alright unless you are about to die

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

LUCKY:pilotfly::joystick:

Computer Specs

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz| GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 6Gb | RAM: 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000 MHz | OS: Win 10 64 bit | HD: 500 Gb SSD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...