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DDI legibility in VR (help!)


lascaris

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It seems, to me anyway, that the F18 DDI's are uniquely horrible in VR. I use a Quest 2 and in the F-18 the DDI's literally look like they've been smeared with vaseline. I have to lean way forward, the equivalent of the pilot getting his nose about 6 inches from the display, in order to clearly read what is on the screen.

The other planes I typically fly, AV-8B, M2000, or F16 do not have this issue and I can read the displays reasonably well. The other text within the cockpit is legible it's just the DDI's that are hideous. Any suggestions as to how to improve this would be appreciated.

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47 minutes ago, lascaris said:

It seems, to me anyway, that the F18 DDI's are uniquely horrible in VR. I use a Quest 2 and in the F-18 the DDI's literally look like they've been smeared with vaseline. I have to lean way forward, the equivalent of the pilot getting his nose about 6 inches from the display, in order to clearly read what is on the screen.

The other planes I typically fly, AV-8B, M2000, or F16 do not have this issue and I can read the displays reasonably well. The other text within the cockpit is legible it's just the DDI's that are hideous. Any suggestions as to how to improve this would be appreciated.

I'm not familiar with Quest2 but I've logged quite a few hours in Hornet using Reverb G2.  I'm not going to bug you with all set up details since you're not using G2 (actually there are not that many details :grin:) but... after some testing I finally 'figured out' that I had to compromise on something no matter what I did.  Just briefly:  I get the clearest picture in cockpit without any kind of AA (including Advanced SS in SteamVR)  Currently the res. in SteamVR set to 120% (3472x3388 per eye.), 100% per app multiplier.  In DCS:  aniso 16x,  everything maxed (except heat brur and civ traffic.)

On a pancake screen, for replays, I have to use at least 2xMSAA.   

Well... easy for me to brag since I've been only playing SP recently. I'm afraid you will need to browse through some threads in VR section to get the most optimal setups for MP. I've seen some scientific papers written there.  

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On my Quest2, the Hornet DDI's are much clearer than the Harrier (esp Harrier left DDI). Just recently started flying A-10C and it looks gorgeous in VR, though I DO have to lean in to really see the TAD page.

RTX 3070

Core i7-10700K

I keep changing my settings, but currently:

90 Hz

5152x2608 (1.4x)

SS (Oculus Tray Tool)  1.2x  (Hmmm I usually have it at 1.4.....maybe I cranked it down when I upped the resolution)

DCS:

Pixel Density 1.0

IPD 66

MSAA Mask 0.90

 

image.png

 

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Personally i don´t have any issues with Hornet DDI´s (Valve Index user), i can read everything without issues unless i caught some sun glare on the screens etc.

I can describe my VR/DCS/SteamVR options if you wish (and if that is the case say so please) but what works for me probably could not work for you because all rigs are different, so, try to fiddle with the various options so you can get a better DDI´s picture.

 - "Don't be John Wayne in the Break if you´re going to be Jerry Lewis on the Ball".

About carrier ops: "The younger pilots are still quite capable of holding their heads forward against the forces. The older ones have been doing this too long and know better; sore necks make for poor sleep.'

 

PC: I7 4790K 4.6ghz | 32GB RAM | Zotac GTX 1080Ti 11Gb DDR5x | Water cooler NZXT AIO Kraken x53 | 3.5TB (x4 SSD´s) | Valve Index| Andre´s JeatSeat.

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20 hours ago, lascaris said:

It seems, to me anyway, that the F18 DDI's are uniquely horrible in VR. I use a Quest 2 and in the F-18 the DDI's literally look like they've been smeared with vaseline. I have to lean way forward, the equivalent of the pilot getting his nose about 6 inches from the display, in order to clearly read what is on the screen.

The other planes I typically fly, AV-8B, M2000, or F16 do not have this issue and I can read the displays reasonably well. The other text within the cockpit is legible it's just the DDI's that are hideous. Any suggestions as to how to improve this would be appreciated.

What's your GPU anyways?

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7 minutes ago, lascaris said:

I just upped the VR pixel density to 1.4 and it improved dramatically. I haven't DL'd the Oculus Tray Tool on this PC yet, so I haven't tweaked other settings. I can now read the DDI's quite easily. Thanks much all for the suggestions and discussion!

You can also use the built in DEBUG tool:

 

C:\Program Files\Oculus\Support\oculus-diagnostics  (or wherever you have your OCULUS folder)

Run OculusDebugTool.exe

Many of the same options as Tray Tool and no new download required

Seems like most recommendations are to mess with it in the Debug or Tray tool and leave DCS Pixel Density at 1.0, but either way works. I've tried both and just ended up doing it in Oculus settings vs. DCS

image.png

Note: I left Encode Bitrate at 0 which is the DEFAULT. It is probably set to about 120 at default setting. I usually crank it up to 300, but then I have to crank it down if I decide to use AIRLINK vs. the LINK CABLE, so I just leave it at the Default to have more flexibility. Haven't noticed much difference. Usually I use the CABLE for DCS since is a little more reliable and continues charging so I can fly longer before the battery runs down.


Edited by Recluse
LInk Cable vs. Airlink
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4 hours ago, War_Pig said:

With the G2, the DDI’s are clear as a bell.  Even the AMPCD with map on, if I bump down the gain switch slightly in daytime.

I disagree. Well it's clear, but it's still very hard to read the AMPCD symbology with map ON. This is not the case in the A-10C/II TAD. The Hornets symbology is just not as contrasting/readable as the A-10 TAD.

GPU: PALIT NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB | CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 4,9GHz | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz
VR: HP Reverb G2 | HOTAS: TM Warthog Throttle and Stick
OS: Windows 10 22H2

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3 hours ago, chrisofsweden said:

I disagree. Well it's clear, but it's still very hard to read the AMPCD symbology with map ON. This is not the case in the A-10C/II TAD. The Hornets symbology is just not as contrasting/readable as the A-10 TAD.

YMMV,  but I turn the gain switch down a bit and have no issues.

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5 hours ago, War_Pig said:

YMMV,  but I turn the gain switch down a bit and have no issues.

Yeah I do that too but it's still not AS good as in the A-10C.

GPU: PALIT NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB | CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 4,9GHz | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz
VR: HP Reverb G2 | HOTAS: TM Warthog Throttle and Stick
OS: Windows 10 22H2

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11 hours ago, chrisofsweden said:

I disagree. Well it's clear, but it's still very hard to read the AMPCD symbology with map ON. This is not the case in the A-10C/II TAD. The Hornets symbology is just not as contrasting/readable as the A-10 TAD.

Having issues with that as well. But well, it was better a while before, I just don't know when the change occured. It was possible to dim the map a lot with the GAIN rocker, but as of recently it only dims it so far that the display basically is illegible at daytime and completely blinding me at night even when I turn the brightness knob down so that the display almost shuts itself off. In other words, back to "I'll just switch the map off completely in startup procedure".

EDIT: The DDIs though are fine (and the AMPCD with map off as well), I even was able to read them with just the CV1.


Edited by Eldur

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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The AMPCD being hard to read with the map on was the case IRL, too. You can improve it, but not by much. A pilot who flew it IRL said they generally turned the moving map off for this reason. It's not as useful as it is in the A-10, anyway, given the mission profiles Hornet usually flies.

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^Personally I've found that undersampling makes it worse. 

OP, you might consider a sharpening filter.  Fholger's universal VR shader (see this thread) helped me a lot.  

Fholger's VR Performance Toolkit is worth a look if you must undersample to keep your framerate up.  You get your choice of three sharpening protocols.  It works.

Don't forget your in-cockpit controls for contrast and brightness.  Essential for FLIR and moving map.  

 

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

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For anyone who wants crystal clear VR in DCS and you're in the market for a device, take a look at the Pimax.  It's the best purchase I've ever made for flight sims.  It looks more clear than my monitor, and I have a great monitor.  The pimax 12k is coming out soon, and word is it's a lot better than the current 8Kx, but I find that hard to believe.  You can get the 8KX right now and they'll refund the full price when you get the 12k.  I know the OP question is in regard to the Oculus, but frankly the only solution I could find to the poor quality of my oculus was to get a pimax LOL just the cold hard truth

Growling Sidewinder did a great vid on the pimax recently. 

 

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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^Interesting

When I upgraded from a Rift S to a G2, I found that in-cockpit textures were exponentially better.  DDI legibility was only marginally better.  I was a little surprised -- the G2 is no slouch when it comes to pixels-per-degree (and neither is the Quest 2).  But perhaps shouldn't have been.  The DDI's max out at 1024, and perhaps don't tolerate being blown up to iMax proportions very well. 

To be clear I'd LOVE to have a Pimax 8K, just wondering what it would take to drive it.  My 6900xt is working itself to death driving 8.8m pixels.  I imagine the dang thing might catch on fire if I try to make it drive 16.6m pixels, holy cow.   I like the fixed foveated rendering, I'm sure that helps but I got a nickel says most people are undersampling (as most people are with the G2).  Based on my experiments, your best DDI legibility is gonna happen at native resolution. 

Not that I'm tooting the G2's horn.  I wouldn't recommend it to anybody, it's a pain in the ass.*  Quest 2 is a fine piece of kit, and there's not a dang thing wrong with it imo. 

Also, if I spent another four grand on this game, and my DDI's were still blurry, I'd be pissed.  Pimax 8K: $2K.  RTX 3090: $2K.  ReShade: priceless.  

 

------

*And I wouldn't trade it for anything.  It's kind of like my cat in that respect. 

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

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On 2/16/2022 at 5:49 AM, Cathnan said:

What
Is your setting of "Res. Cockpit displays"? I've set it to 1024 each

Totally irrelevant. Resolution Cockpit displays has nothing to do with the DDIs (or any other MFDs) and does only affect the mirrors. I have set it to "256", coming from "1024 each" and there is absolutely zero difference in DDI readability. Can read them perfectly without leaning forward in the G2.


Edited by VpR81

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