How is the SE compared to regulear Eagle in the A2A department?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Just curious if I could replace the Eagle with the SE in BFM and BVR or not.

[DSplayer]

The radar’s performance should be on par or better than how the current F-15C’s radar performance. In terms of A2A weaponry, it will be the same with the possibility of 9Xs. Speed is probably the only major factor you’ll see worse since the CFTs are mounted.

[Spurts]

With CFTs it will exceed 1.8M from 33,000ft to 50,000ft and tops out at 1.9M.  The -220 powered C after dropping tanks has a 1.8 spread of 28,000ft to 50,000ft and tops out at 2.2M.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Thanks guys. So, is the SE a better BFM fighter or worse?

[some1]

Worse. Heavier and has more drag. 

It will be able to carry aim-9x, so that will even things a little, but no HMD for the pilot.

Edited February 14, 2022 by some1

[Exorcet]

3 hours ago, Spurts said:

With CFTs it will exceed 1.8M from 33,000ft to 50,000ft and tops out at 1.9M.  The -220 powered C after dropping tanks has a 1.8 spread of 28,000ft to 50,000ft and tops out at 2.2M.

I've heard a M1.6 limit on the E model CFT's. Not sure if it's the CFT's themselves or the pods mounted on them, but I think on the E we're getting the pods can't be removed.

On paper the E is worse in every way because of the CFT's and inherent extra weight, but it makes up for this with much more powerful engines. It won't maneuver as well as the C but it might keep up in low speed acceleration. At high speed the C wins out again because of the reduced drag.

[Spurts]

Sorry, you are right (sort of) my speeds listed were purely on the topic of thrust/drag.  There is a stores carriage limit on the CFTs used by Strike Eagles of 1.4M even for AAMs.  However I follow that statement with this question, who in DCS is going to obey that?  Unless RAZBAM implements something like stores ripping off due to flutter or the launch lugs getting damaged resulting in a hung store there will be nothing to stop DCS players from going beyond 1.4M.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I dunno, but I am not very good with the DCS F-15C as it losses energy worse than an F/A-18C in BFM. I could be me or I should have not much expectation with the SE.

[Spurts]

It only loses energy at high AoA.  Keep it under 20 and you will have trouble with too much energy.  Maxing out the AoA should be a brief event to either ruin an enemy shot or to take your own but most your flying should be between 20-25 units AoA

 

[falcon_120]

Just curious if I could replace the Eagle with the SE in BFM and BVR or not.

It will be better in a complex bvr scenario just because of it being high fidelity and thus implementing link 16. The major problem the current F15c now has is how prone to ambushes and flankers it is, not receiving the whole picture as the rest of planes do (f16, f18, jf17, su27...) it's too easy to loose bvr timings, MAR's etc and getting killed. With L16 it would be the best air superiority fighter in the game (except for the eurofighter).

Also the radar will be probably more capable. This alone should let you be more effective even when you will be inferior in a kinematics/acceleration perspective.

I'm bfm a SE is objectively inferior to a F15c, but nothing so crazy that cannot be compensated by a better pilot.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Spurts]

4 hours ago, falcon_120 said:

I'm bfm a SE is objectively inferior to a F15c, but nothing so crazy that cannot be compensated by a better pilot.

True, much like how a good F-14 pilot can be victorious in the underpowered A model.

[Njinsa]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:18 AM, Exorcet said:

I've heard a M1.6 limit on the E model CFT's. Not sure if it's the CFT's themselves or the pods mounted on them, but I think on the E we're getting the pods can't be removed.

On paper the E is worse in every way because of the CFT's and inherent extra weight, but it makes up for this with much more powerful engines. It won't maneuver as well as the C but it might keep up in low speed acceleration. At high speed the C wins out again because of the reduced drag.

E, -229 engines, type 5 CFTs, 4x7M, 4x9M, pods installed, Standard temp, M1.7 at 35kft-45kft

With no weapons, but with CFTs, M2.0 at 51kft.

Clean, no CFT (not our DCS model), M2.3 at 36kft, extends to M2.5 for short term dash in cold weather.

If they stick to the docs...

Compared to C, E will suffer in time to climb performance and lower sustained and instantaneous turn rates. 229 has more military and max thrust compared to 220 which will help substantially. With almost 10k pounds of extra onboard gas, it will outrange C with a margin. 

First to arrive, last to go.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Njinsa

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Just speculate if there would be a re-worked C included.

[Njinsa]

It would be quite a surprise, not by Razbam in any case.

When E gets out, large portion of current C driving force will move there, not enough demand to drive such project.

Maybe some community mods (there's one on github spinning up) aiming to activate some stuff like partially clickable cockpit and maybe some partial overhauls like F-15D.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I am not sure how much different E is from C/D, I am thinking of the situation for F-14A & F-14B.

[Njinsa]

The fact that C and E are made by 2 different teams, fidelity levels, mission sets present a huge black box.

I'd expect that whatever we get, there will be a learning curve how to recognize or use E's strong points in BVR and even WVR arena and avoid those parts of flight envelope where he sucks.

 

 

 

 

 

[TLTeo]

1 hour ago, VFGiPJP said:

I am not sure how much different E is from C/D, I am thinking of the situation for F-14A & F-14B.

Nothing like that, the -E is much further away from the -C. A better comparison would be the F-14A and D.

[QuiGon]

Will we be able to remove the CFTs on the F-15E?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

9 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Nothing like that, the -E is much further away from the -C. A better comparison would be the F-14A and D.

This much? Wow! More reasons to get excited. (Of course, I am aware of the developer’s history, I do hype myself too high up)

[Papanowel]

1 hour ago, QuiGon said:

Will we be able to remove the CFTs on the F-15E?

Nop.

 

Quote

Will CFT's be removable? No, this would significantly change the aircrafts handeling, etc. and basically requires a whole new Flight Model, additionally, F-15E CFT's are only removed when it goes into deep maintance, not during operations

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Papanowel

[Exorcet]

On 2/16/2022 at 5:24 PM, Njinsa said:

It would be quite a surprise, not by Razbam in any case.

When E gets out, large portion of current C driving force will move there, not enough demand to drive such project.

Maybe some community mods (there's one on github spinning up) aiming to activate some stuff like partially clickable cockpit and maybe some partial overhauls like F-15D.

The C seems to have a large backing. I don't really think the E can kill the demand for a full C model, especially with the performance differences between the two. Not to mention that if ED does get around to doing a C it could be cheaper to develop since it's partially implemented as a FC3 model. Multiple variants of a plane are also nothing new in DCS, and perhaps developers are more on board with the idea of variants. Everyone seems to want more than one F-4, and Heatblur is obliging as they have done with the F-14.

[Voyager]

I would expect for the interest in the F-15C to increase after a successful F-15E launch.

It should be not difficult to learn the F-15C after mastering the E, and it will bring more variety to have both, especially since both are active. 

[Rick50]

 

I think there would be a significant market for the F-15C, and that the Strike Beagle would also be popular. Similar but not the same at all... mainly the mission purpose is so different, I think most would buy both variants.

I don't quite understand why Raz wouldn't do both, unless they just don't have the resources to do so. 

[some1]

Maybe because Razbam also talked about making another Harrier variant (which hasn't materialized yet), and they also talked about making another MiG-19 variant (which hasn't materialized yet), and they also have the longest backlog of unfinished and unreleased modules of all DCS developers. 

So let's wait for F-15E to be released and brought to a more or less complete state, before asking for a yet another toy added to the collection. 

[Rick50]

 

I forgot about all that, fair point!