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F16 Radar Elevation in TWS re-zeroing


Archaic

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Had this twice tonight.  When I lock something up in TWS mode, it zeros that angle as my center for elevation. Afterwards I have to use full input to have it level.  If I switch to RWS it's fine.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This also happens in RWS/DTT. Very annoying indeed.
I found a workaround though: I find a target co-altitude, go STT on it, and then break the lock. That re-centres the antenna the way it is supposed to.

 

*edit*

This thread should probably have been posted in the appropriate sub-forum: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/333-bugs/


Edited by Raven (Elysian Angel)
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On 2/28/2022 at 3:58 AM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

This also happens in RWS/DTT. Very annoying indeed.
I found a workaround though: I find a target co-altitude, go STT on it, and then break the lock. That re-centres the antenna the way it is supposed to.

 

*edit*

This thread should probably have been posted in the appropriate sub-forum: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/333-bugs/

 

My workaround is just slew the radar cursor to the side of the screen, which will change it scan area but it also recenters the elevation. 

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Steps to reproduce:
-Set TWS.
-Find a target, wich is a lot lower than you (that's very important!!). I just bumped 10/15 angels more than a 15/10miles bogey.
-Lower the antenna and bug it in TWS.
-Move the elevation axis DOWN and leave it there ( just the physical axis, it will not be affecting the symbology because the radar is scanning the bugged's elevation)
-TMS down to unlock the target.
-Now try to use the elevation, and tah dah, It's not centered anymore.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/8/2022 at 7:20 PM, Flappie said:

Can you please confirm the issue is fixed on your end in today's OB?

I can confirm this is still happening, exactly the same as it was before the last OB patch, and has been happening for a while now. way to reset is to open radar azimuth to full.

 

I think it happens to (or gets noticed only by) people that have the antenna elevation mapped to an axis


Edited by BMD
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On 6/9/2022 at 2:20 AM, Flappie said:

Can you please confirm the issue is fixed on your end in today's OB?

 

On 6/17/2022 at 4:00 AM, BMD said:

I can confirm this is still happening, exactly the same as it was before the last OB patch, and has been happening for a while now. way to reset is to open radar azimuth to full.

 

I think it happens to (or gets noticed only by) people that have the antenna elevation mapped to an axis

 

Still happening on my end. It has been like this for months. This issue take places for RWS/DTT and TWS. 

I use the Winwing F-16 throttle, which is the replica of the real F-16 throttle. The ANT ELEV rotary dial on my throttle is an absolute axis with a center detent (but not spring loaded like the Hornet throttle), so basically it works the same as the real F-16 ANT ELEV rotary dial. I binded my rotary dial to the radar elevation axis and set it as a slider. No deadzones, curves or anything else. 

BTW, I also tried my old TM TWCS throttle using the rotary dial on the top left of the throttle. Still the same. Definitely not a hardware issue but a game bug. 


Edited by SCPanda
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On 6/8/2022 at 8:20 PM, Flappie said:

Can you please confirm the issue is fixed on your end in today's OB?

The stuck issue maybe is fixed, but not the re-zeroing/centering on a wrong absolute physical axis value. (I described the re-centering antenna "way to reproduce" in this thread) It continues to happen.
When you reproduce with the described steps(or just loosing the target in a real combat situation), the physical axis center doesn't match the FCR gimbal center, and the physical axis max gimbal doesn't match the FCR elevation max gimbals.


Edited by falconzx
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5 minutes ago, falconzx said:

The stuck issue maybe is fixed, but not the re-zeroing/centering on a wrong absolute physical axis value. (I described the re-centering antenna "way to reproduce" in this thread) It continues to happen.
When you reproduce with the described steps(or just loosing the target in a real combat situation), the physical axis center doesn't match the FCR gimbal center, and the physical axis gimbal doesn't match the FCR elevation gimbals.

 

Nice description. 

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On 6/24/2022 at 7:18 AM, foxit said:

in real time (you should be able to find this text on line). I hope this will enlighten you on the difficulties encountered in reproducing each of the following parameters and adapting their effects to a simulator as n

While I'm not qualified to comment on radar performance as it relates to the real plane, I can definitely say the underlying game code for the radar in the 16 is still buggy (even after latest fixes) and does things like not give you a firing solution in TWS for many seconds after bugging a target (something I assume is only possible if a track is solid enough for the computer to mark it as such), especially on first target lock on a sortie even though the system track is clearly very well defined. RWS seems to have less range available as well to lock a target. I also think that the 22-26nm distance at which the radar becomes useable for small targets, even when painting a bigger target like a tomcat or f15 or flanker up against clear sky, is a bit short of the mark.

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Track provided. Behavior is that after pilot-initiated undesignate in TWS (also RWS) the antenna remains at the elevation commanded by TWS when target was bugged.

Observations:

  1. If antenna elevation knob is adjusted while TWS is automatically setting antenna, upon undesignation antenna immediately returns to position according to elevation knob.
  2. If antenna elevation knob is not adjusted while TWS is automatically setting antenna, upon undesignation antenna elevation remains at the contact's last value.
  3. If after condition #2 a sufficient number of TMS down presses will cause antenna to resume elevation according to knob position.

I haven't checked what happens on non-pilot-commanded loss of target. I feel it's probably not right that there's a difference in unlock behavior if/if not knob was moved during track. For uncommanded loss of track I'm sure radar maintains antenna elevation as long as knob isn't moved to help re acquisition. But that could be different for TMS down commanded unlock.

F16 TWS after undesignate antenna elevation.trk


Edited by Frederf
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On 6/26/2022 at 10:13 AM, Frederf said:

Track provided. Behavior is that after pilot-initiated undesignate in TWS (also RWS) the antenna remains at the elevation commanded by TWS when target was bugged.

Observations:

  1. If antenna elevation knob is adjusted while TWS is automatically setting antenna, upon undesignation antenna immediately returns to position according to elevation knob.
  2. If antenna elevation knob is not adjusted while TWS is automatically setting antenna, upon undesignation antenna elevation remains at the contact's last value.
  3. If after condition #2 a sufficient number of TMS down presses will cause antenna to resume elevation according to knob position.

I haven't checked what happens on non-pilot-commanded loss of target. I feel it's probably not right that there's a difference in unlock behavior if/if not knob was moved during track. For uncommanded loss of track I'm sure radar maintains antenna elevation as long as knob isn't moved to help re acquisition. But that could be different for TMS down commanded unlock.

F16 TWS after undesignate antenna elevation.trk 34.8 kB · 3 downloads

 

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I am unable to reproduce I have asked others to try also 

thanks

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55 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I am unable to reproduce I have asked others to try also 

thanks

This issue happens very rarely, I might be guessing, but I think I have encountered it only while flying online, lets say on GS server. You might try there, where there is a lot of other people. Just a hint.

ps: And try coming very close to the bandit(s) which are way lower or higher then you.

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Quote

This issue happens very rarely

this is not correct! The absolute axis wrong recentering happens EVERY single time you do the steps to reproduce.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 9:10 AM, falconzx said:

Steps to reproduce:
-Set TWS.(or RWS)
-Find a target, wich is a lot lower(or higher) than you (that's very important!!). I just bumped 10/15 angels more than a 15/10miles bogey.
-Lower the antenna and bug it in TWS.(or RWS)
-Move the elevation axis DOWN and leave it there ( just the physical axis, it will not be affecting the symbology because the radar is scanning the bugged's elevation)  not necessary
-TMS down to unlock the target.
-Now try to use the elevation, and tah dah, It's not centered anymore. and gimbals +60 -60 are not respected.

Quote

When you reproduce with the described steps(or just loosing the target in a real combat situation), the physical axis center doesn't match the FCR gimbal center, and the physical axis max gimbal doesn't match the FCR elevation max gimbals.

If @BIGNEWY can't reproduce is because maybe he doesn't have a device with an absolute axis to map the ant elev knob.


Edited by falconzx
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1 hour ago, falconzx said:

this is not correct! The absolute axis wrong recentering happens EVERY single time you do the steps to reproduce.

Oh, sorry, didn`t know, it can be so easily reproduced. I did it in my 1st attempt 🙂 I was only experiencing that while online.

@BIGNEWYoffline, set yourself on 30k AI on 6k head-on, and try to lock him up asap. For the 1st time when you will put him as a track target, those 2 up and down numbers will become instantly red and way bellow the ground zero level. All next locks seems to work fine, but not the 1st one. Check my track.

 

f16_FCR_issue_2.trk

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Since @BIGNEWY and I don't seem to be able to reproduce this issue, I made a short clip using curent Open Beta. Antenna elevation was bound to a physical axis. Can you see the issue happen in my video? If so, when?

 

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8 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Since @BIGNEWY and I don't seem to be able to reproduce this issue, I made a short clip using curent Open Beta. Antenna elevation was bound to a physical axis. Can you see the issue happen in my video? If so, when?

 

You see at 0:16 how the radar elevation indicator on the left side of the FCR moves all the way up and then all the way down when you move your physical axis all the way up and all the way down? Compare that to after 0:57 when you drop your TWS lock and the elevation indicator only moves halfway up the display since the radar has recentered at the location your physical axis was at when you dropped the lock.

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0:18 there is a sudden jump from 38/15 to -17/-45 (upper/lower altitiude in feet). Same happened at 1:00, from 6/-5 to -25/-63.

But the most noticeable is at 1:35, when you put your system target back to track target, the ACQ altitude numbers jumped from 6/-5 to -3/-15.

 

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