Single player and getting concerned about the complexity of this module

[sobe]

I fly mainly as a single player and after watching some videos on the Apache, I am concerned that it may be too much for a single player even with the AI.

For example, will most single players be flying mostly as the pilot or as the gunner?

As a long time Helios and view port exporter, I assume that the two pilot screens will be exportable in both the pilot and gunner cockpits. However, what about the center screen for the gunner?  Even though not part of the pilot's cockpit, do you believe that we can still export the third gunner's screen to a second monitor that has the pilot cockpit so that we can have all 3 screens on a second monitor in the pilots cockpit?  I think something like this has been modded in the F14 for the pilot to also have a view port that IRL is only for the weapons officer.  For example: TM HOTAS Warthog Profile for Single Player F-14 TOMCAT PILOT + RIO LANTIRN Stick Control with MS Word Diagram (v1)

Edited February 17, 2022 by sobe

[NG91]

Well I’m more concerned or let’s say curious  about the handling from Georg AI. If it’s like petrovich it’s kind of disappointing me because it’s really not good at all in my option. Pressing that button long that short that not what I expecting in the most mordern Helo module in DCS. A solution like heatblur or even better voice commands would be so much better. 

[Raptor9]

The problem with the F-14 Jester-style menu is it is too complicated and has too many options for an attack helicopter that is going to be flying at extremely low NOE altitudes, requiring the player to essentially "hold Jester's hand" to tell him exactly what you want. If you are flying just a few feet over the trees at night instead of 20,000 feet, you can't be fiddling with a Jester-style radial menu taking up half the screen, going through multiple sub-menus and commands to get him to do something for you.

The other side of it is the fact that the F-14's RIO seat has a LOT of controls and options that only the RIO has access to. Such as the second radio, the countermeasure panels, the computer keypad for entering in target coordinates, and a radar system that required manual manipulation of a lot of various settings to scan a certain block of airspace for a target that met various parameters that also had to be manually adjusted.  The AH-64D isn't anything like that.  Almost everything can be done from either seat, and a lot of the avionics are automated in such a way that the same tasks require less button pushes.

With the exception of using the TADS for targeting, there is virtually nothing significant the front seater can do that the back seater can't do just as easily.  Having said that, using the TADS for targeting is a very important piece of how the Apache detects and engages targets, even with an FCR.  And there are certain types of weapon engagement methods that require specific crew coordination.  But a lot of this can be covered with condition-based logic for George, since the entire avionics concept of the AH-64D is condition-based logic.

My point I'm trying to make is that because there is a lot more going on in the front seat of the AH-64 compared to the Hind, George needs to be a little more capable than Petrovich from an AI standpoint, but turning George into something as complicated as Jester would simply turn the DCS AH-64D into a "CPG management simulator" while trying not to fly into a tree.

[Dannyvandelft]

Jester AI is fantastic. You only need to bind one button to pull up and acknowledge commands. The rest is done with head movements. You always stay in control of the plane, so you can easily navigate at treetop level. And you're going a helluvalot faster in a Tomcat than an Apache. So you'll have plenty of time to make commands, unless you decide until 100 ft away from powerlines to do so.

I am only going to focus on the rear seat,as I rather learn one station well, than two stations average. I hope George is like Jester, because Petrovich commands suck.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[cow_art]

12 hours ago, NG91 said:

Well I’m more concerned or let’s say curious  about the handling from Georg AI. If it’s like petrovich it’s kind of disappointing me because it’s really not good at all in my option. Pressing that button long that short that not what I expecting in the most mordern Helo module in DCS. A solution like heatblur or even better voice commands would be so much better. 

Funny, I see it exactly the other way round: The way Petrovich works allows me to build muscle memory. After a while, managing him has become very efficient and easy for me. I realize 4 buttons would probably not be enough for everything George has to do. But I'd still vastly prefer keybindings for George's most important tasks. Voice commands might be cool, but only if George is smart and autonomous enough. I imagine repeating "Look here for targets, Cancel, Look here for targets, Cancel"  about 20 times before I can find the tank I am looking for wouldn't be much fun....

[hannibal]

Find a buddy? That is the beauty of the multicrew 

[Lurker]

13 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

My point I'm trying to make is that because there is a lot more going on in the front seat of the AH-64 compared to the Hind, George needs to be a little more capable than Petrovich from an AI standpoint, but turning George into something as complicated as Jester would simply turn the DCS AH-64D into a "CPG management simulator" while trying not to fly into a tree.

Once I know where everything is, telling Jester what to do takes a matter of seconds. This is what people mean when they say they want George to "be" like Jester. It's not about complexity, it's about the user interface and simplifying tasks. 

For example: telling George to scan for targets and then to mark them as target points within the nav system should be something that is at most nestled within a 2 level contextual wheel, I.E. it's two button presses.

Open menu (press A)

1. First level: Select George Scan for Targets using TEDAC and Press A

2. Second level: Different types of Scans that George can do using TEDAC, etc. and what he can do with them is second level: Select Enter as Target Points press A

All of this Should take less than a few seconds, and then you just let George do his thing, as you start seeing the target points appearing. How that would work WITHOUT any kind of visual aid or menu, ALA Petrovich is a nightmare I don't even want to think about. Would probably be simpler to do it oneself, which is something that not only breaks immersion it undermines the whole concept of flying as a two-man crew. 

6 hours ago, cow_art said:

 "Look here for targets, Cancel, Look here for targets, Cancel"  about 20 times before I can find the tank I am looking for wouldn't be much fun....

Which is exactly the way it works currently in the Hind. Petrovich is nothing more than an automated targeting pod. And a very bad one at that. Making George smarter than that is absolutely essential to the Apache being enjoyable without multicrew. 

*edited for clarity*

Edited February 18, 2022 by Lurker

[Paladin71]

I don't have a link to it right now, but Casmo put out a youtube video yesterday on his keybinds. It kinda helps and makes things a little clearer. 

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, Paladin71 said:

I don't have a link to it right now, but Casmo put out a youtube video yesterday on his keybinds. It kinda helps and makes things a little clearer. 

Actually it doesn't say anything about George (other than that Casmo will be voicing him) and that there is some kind of menu, for which Casmo uses a keyboard. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Lurker

[NG91]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Lurker:

Once I know where everything is, telling Jester what to do takes a matter of seconds. This is what people mean when they say they want George to "be" like Jester. It's not about complexity, it's about the user interface and simplifying tasks. 

For example: telling George to scan for targets and then to mark them as target points within the nav system should be something that is at most nestled within a 2 level contextual wheel, I.E. it's two button presses.

Open menu (press A)

1. First level: Select George Scan for Targets using TEDAC and Press A

2. Second level: Different types of Scans that George can do using TEDAC, etc. and what he can do with them is second level: Select Enter as Target Points press A

All of this Should take less than a few seconds, and then you just let George do his thing, as you start seeing the target points appearing. How that would work WITHOUT any kind of visual aid or menu, ALA Petrovich is a nightmare I don't even want to think about. Would probably be simpler to do it oneself, which is something that not only breaks immersion it undermines the whole concept of flying as a two-man crew. 

Which is exactly the way it works currently in the Hind. Petrovich is nothing more than an automated targeting pod. And a very bad one at that. Making George smarter than that is absolutely essential to the Apache being enjoyable without multicrew. 

*edited for clarity*

 

That’s exactly what I mean. It must be simple I don’t want to bind 4 or 6 keys on my joystick. Heatblur menu solution it’s great and simple. I really hope they do it right and not like petrovich. Let’s see and hope they come up with a good solution. 

[abs0lutzer0]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:10 PM, hannibal said:

Find a buddy? That is the beauty of the multicrew 

what if you are the type of individual that is unfriendable?

i was honestly getting this for the single player experience [ i do understand the irony of a multi crewed heli]

[hannibal]

if unfriendable then that person is missing out on beauty of multicrew...