reported Radar elevation freezes

[Chibawang]

Occasionally, in RWS a bugged target is lost and while attempting to reacquire, the elevation setting on the cursor is frozen into its previous range. Sometimes either the target altitude or one of the the radar elevation numbers is also stuck on the screen where the target was, a ghost of sorts. I’ve learned that the only way to resolve this is to switch into TWS and back. I’ve only experienced this in multiplayer so far, no track available. 
 

Side note but perhaps related, shouldn’t the azimuth and elevation be centered on a bugged target through any maneuvering? I’ve noticed this is not always the case, and I need to manually adjust while doing crank turns. 

[Bouli306]

46 minutes ago, Chibawang said:

Occasionally, in RWS a bugged target is lost and while attempting to reacquire, the elevation setting on the cursor is frozen into its previous range. Sometimes either the target altitude or one of the the radar elevation numbers is also stuck on the screen where the target was, a ghost of sorts. I’ve learned that the only way to resolve this is to switch into TWS and back. I’ve only experienced this in multiplayer so far, no track available. 
 

Side note but perhaps related, shouldn’t the azimuth and elevation be centered on a bugged target through any maneuvering? I’ve noticed this is not always the case, and I need to manually adjust while doing crank turns. 

Happened to me several times as well. 

[Chibawang]

I've read several reports related to the radar since last patch, but nothing this specific---hopefully that is some additional help. I wish I had a track to provide, I'll definitely keep my eyes open for this while offline, but that hasn't been much lately. 

[CobaltUK]

Same problem for a while now. My solution has been to switch into AG mode and back to AA. Whilst stuck i have checked with DIview and the controller inputs are varying normally.

[Chibawang]

@BIGNEWY I got a track tonight, didn't realize it recorded in multiplayer! It's a big file, but I left the server almost immediately after it occurred... right after I get shot down, in fact. So hopefully that will help you find the right segment to look at. It doesn't go EXACTLY as I reported, no ghosting altitude number for instance. Hopefully this helps, I'll save any more as they come up. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FYPnD1zzzpksZqtvLid7Vcz47W38fFJ2/view?usp=sharing

[SCPanda]

21 hours ago, Chibawang said:

I’ve learned that the only way to resolve this is to switch into TWS and back. I’ve only experienced this in multiplayer so far, no track available. 

 

19 hours ago, CobaltUK said:

My solution has been to switch into AG mode and back to AA. Whilst stuck i have checked with DIview and the controller inputs are varying normally.

Same problem here. My workaround is moving the radar cursor to the edge of the screen so it switches scan azimuth. It also resets the elevation to where it's supposed to be. 

[BIGNEWY]

So far I am unable to reproduce on my machine, I have asked other team members to watch out for it also. 

thanks

[Chibawang]

Thanks for the update!

[Archaic]

On 2/23/2022 at 4:32 AM, BIGNEWY said:

So far I am unable to reproduce on my machine, I have asked other team members to watch out for it also. 

thanks

I've experienced it several times.  Always in multiplayer.

[BIGNEWY]

16 minutes ago, Archaic said:

I've experienced it several times.  Always in multiplayer.

Ive not experienced it yet, but I have also asked our team to watch for it also 

thanks

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

It also happens in Single Player: someone started a thread HERE.

[falconzx]

In the last patch, i experienced radar elevation freezes in TWS. Probably it doesn't happen to who is using buttons, i'm using analog axis so it could be only related to that.

Anyway...it happens every time so it's very easy to reproduce.
I just did it now in free flight mission.

Steps to reproduce:
-Set TWS.
-Find a target, wich is a lot lower than you (that's very important!!). I just bumped 10/15 angels more than a 15/10miles bogey.
-Lower the antenna and bug it in TWS.
-Move the elevation axis DOWN and leave it there ( just the physical axis, it will not be affecting the symbology because the radar is scanning the bugged's elevation)
-TMS down to unlock the target.
-Now try to use the elevation, and tah dah, It's not centered anymore.

Hope it will be fixed soon.
It's a thing emerged recently, i'm pretty sure it was ok in the previous patches.

[Icarus31]

I have sort of the same issue, but its more complicated...

overall the Antenna elev. works, but for some reason in any mode it behaves different. especially in the mids of the range... where as it were, the antenna is sort of delayed, instead of a snappy / consistent interaction with your ANT ELEV axis.

funny thing is also that in RWS or in TWS mode it seems that the ANT ELEV. memorizing the setting in the other mode, so when you switch, suddenly the Elev is behaving different.

[Chibawang]

11 hours ago, falconzx said:

In the last patch, i experienced radar elevation freezes in TWS. Probably it doesn't happen to who is using buttons, i'm using analog axis so it could be only related to that.

Anyway...it happens every time so it's very easy to reproduce.
I just did it now in free flight mission.

Steps to reproduce:
-Set TWS.
-Find a target, wich is a lot lower than you (that's very important!!). I just bumped 10/15 angels more than a 15/10miles bogey.
-Lower the antenna and bug it in TWS.
-Move the elevation axis DOWN and leave it there ( just the physical axis, it will not be affecting the symbology because the radar is scanning the bugged's elevation)
-TMS down to unlock the target.
-Now try to use the elevation, and tah dah, It's not centered anymore.

Hope it will be fixed soon.
It's a thing emerged recently, i'm pretty sure it was ok in the previous patches.

Brilliant, thanks falcon! Making sure you see this @BIGNEWY nice community here. 

[BIGNEWY]

I will and others will try to reproduce again

thanks

[Koozie]

This just happened to me.  Was doing practice BVR and my elv froze in the center.  It only happened once and I'm not sure the steps that caused it.  But I was in A2A mode, RWS and was firing my 3rd 120c. I was also using a axis. 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by usafcop11

[SCPanda]

Yesterday I was doing BVR in multiplayer sever against another players. I was at 30k and there were 2 bandits flying hot at me at about 5k shown on datalink. I adjusted my radar elevation using the axis on my throttle to about +20 to -5 (cursor on datalink contacts). My radar detected both targets so I used RWS to lock one of them. After the lock, the radar elevation immediately changed to something about -5 to -20 without me adjusting the axis at all. This might not sound like radar elevation freezing but is how it supposed to work? Seems wrong to me. 

[falconzx]

Ok, as i see this topic was marked as "cannot reproduce" i feel we need to dig more into this. 
Actually what i found is that TWS recenter the axis value after every unlock/unbug. This means that this bug can be reproduced without doing something odd or out of normal procedures.
What i did in this video was simply entering in free flight, bumping up to reproduce a look-down situation, and bug a target then unbug. What i did after was just move my axis from 0 to 100% some times to show my elevation is not centered anymore and i can't move my antenna up more than a certain angle.

Here i attach a track, in which i do the same thing.

If it can help i use X-56 Rotary axis for elevation the marked with "G" one, labeled JOY_RZ in "controls". I have edited it with 25 of curvature, but i tested without it, and it happens in the same way, so that's not the cause.

EDIT: you can also notice in the video that without moving the antenna, in the exact moment i unlock, the elevation instantly pops down.

f-16_elevation_recentered.trk

Edited March 15, 2022 by falconzx

[Tango3B]

3 hours ago, falconzx said:

Ok, as i see this topic was marked as "cannot reproduce" i feel we need to dig more into this. 
Actually what i found is that TWS recenter the axis value after every unlock/unbug. This means that this bug can be reproduced without doing something odd or out of normal procedures.
What i did in this video was simply entering in free flight, bumping up to reproduce a look-down situation, and bug a target then unbug. What i did after was just move my axis from 0 to 100% some times to show my elevation is not centered anymore and i can't move my antenna up more than a certain angle.

Here i attach a track, in which i do the same thing.

If it can help i use X-56 Rotary axis for elevation the marked with "G" one, labeled JOY_RZ in "controls". I have edited it with 25 of curvature, but i tested without it, and it happens in the same way, so that's not the cause.

EDIT: you can also notice in the video that without moving the antenna, in the exact moment i unlock, the elevation instantly pops down.

f-16_elevation_recentered.trk 995.97 kB · 1 download

 

This is clearly a bug. Did you notice the upper and lower scan limits of the radar both showing negative values after you unlocked your target? This not supposed to happen. Under no circumstances. And I also noticed this while flying PvP, recently. The logic behind the auto-elevation control of the radar seems bugged as I recently tracked a bugged contact at roughly 30 nm range and even then both the upper and lower scan limits showed negative values which is basically just hilarious. Will also try to make a vid this evening to showcase that if I run into this, again.

[ice41]

6 hours ago, falconzx said:

Ok, as i see this topic was marked as "cannot reproduce" i feel we need to dig more into this. 
Actually what i found is that TWS recenter the axis value after every unlock/unbug. This means that this bug can be reproduced without doing something odd or out of normal procedures.
What i did in this video was simply entering in free flight, bumping up to reproduce a look-down situation, and bug a target then unbug. What i did after was just move my axis from 0 to 100% some times to show my elevation is not centered anymore and i can't move my antenna up more than a certain angle.

Here i attach a track, in which i do the same thing.

If it can help i use X-56 Rotary axis for elevation the marked with "G" one, labeled JOY_RZ in "controls". I have edited it with 25 of curvature, but i tested without it, and it happens in the same way, so that's not the cause.

EDIT: you can also notice in the video that without moving the antenna, in the exact moment i unlock, the elevation instantly pops down.

f-16_elevation_recentered.trk 995.97 kB · 1 download

 

 

Your description sounds exactly like what I noticed here.

 

[skywalker22]

Yesterday it happened that too me as well, it was online in Growling Sidinder server. I also have a replay but its 140mb big. Check it out here:

 

HERE is the track file (144mb, so I upload it). It happened arround 2/3 into the track.

And HERE is the LOG file of that track.

I hope it helps finding what the issue might be.

[feipan]

Happens to regulariy. Using an absolute axis. Toggling to TWS and then back to RWS is a workaround, but it's cumbersome since you still have to press and then release TMS right, in order to switch from RWS -> TWS. So I'm pressing longer than needed. I believe there is a bug report already for this?

[RuskyV]

Hitting the dogfight override mode works too,  un freezing the elevation .

[SCPanda]

On 4/22/2022 at 7:39 PM, feipan said:

Happens to regulariy. Using an absolute axis. Toggling to TWS and then back to RWS is a workaround, but it's cumbersome since you still have to press and then release TMS right, in order to switch from RWS -> TWS. So I'm pressing longer than needed. I believe there is a bug report already for this?

Yeah, the holding and release HOTAS logic is another problem awaits ED to resolve. IDK if they have acknowledged it as a bug or not tho. 

1 hour ago, RuskyV said:

Hitting the dogfight override mode works too,  un freezing the elevation .

Cool, this might be the fastest workaround for this problem. Thx. 

[falconzx]

Thanks for the dogfight workaround.
 
ED please, we posted a lot of tracks, a lot of evidence of people reporting this issue in multiple threads. I can't believe it's still marked as "can not reproduce".
The recipe is: use the axis for elevation, fight against a target with an huge difference of altitude from you.

Edited April 26, 2022 by falconzx