New Dedicated PC Build!

[tower59]

Hey, guys! For the last two+ years, my son & I have been building an F/A-18C simulator. (See link below for that thread.) Now, it's time to stop thinking about plywood and aluminum and think instead about the PC. Our goal is to have a system that will drive a VR setup with good resolution and smooth frame rate. We've invested two years and countless man hours, and I don't want to skimp on a PC that doesn't deliver. That being said, I have almost zero real experience with PCs and don't want to burn dollars that won't have benefit for a dedicated DCS machine. Last summer we purchased a custom built PC from Xidax but UPS repeatedly used the system as a soccer ball, so we've decided to order parts ourselves and start again. Planning around $5,000 for the system. I want to future-proof as much as practical and prefer not to run out of RAM or storage in a year and have to mess with upgrades (unless we can get our hands on a 4090!!!) We would greatly appreciate any suggestions for the build. Here's the current plan. We appreciate any and all suggestions. How would you build this system?

(1) CPU: Intel i9 12900K     $600

(2) CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 360 $115

(3) MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700     $265

(4) G.Skill Trident Z Neo [64 GB TOTAL] 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) [x 2] DDR4-3600 CL14 $290 + $290

(5) Storage: Western Digital Black SN850 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME [x2] $260 +$260

(6) GPU: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB Gaming OC $2700

(7) Corsair 5000D Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case  $120

(8) PSU: Seasonic Prime Gold 1300 W $250

(9) Case fans: Arctic P12 PST 120mm fans 5-pack $40

Appreciate your comments!!!

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by tower59

[Steel Jaw]

RAM should be 64GB minimum for "future proofing"...no such thing of course.

[silverdevil]

@tower59 i totally agree with @Steel Jaw. get at least 64. i see so many users mucking about with low RAM. as you can see by my sig, i needed a new pc. i had the money and i maxed everything out. i never-knock-on-wood have any issues.

[tower59]

Yup, it's two sets of 32GB (2 x 16GB) x 2. Just cheaper that way Amazon- so a total of 4 16 GB sticks for a total of 64 GB RAM. I've edited the original post to make it clearer-thanks!

Edited February 18, 2022 by tower59

[LucShep]

My opinion only but, if you really decided to go for a "B-die" 3600 C14 kit from GSkill...

1) get a kit of 64GB (4x 16GB) in a single package, instead of two separate 32GB kits (of 2x 16GB each).
It's rare that identical memory kits give problems if put together but not unheard, as RAM sometimes is tricky (and pretty expensive at 64GB total).
With a single kit, at least you are 100% sure that the 4 sticks you bought are absolutely guaranteed to work together, no buts or ifs - just peace of mind.

2) avoid the Neo and Royal kits (unless it's a great deal).
They go for over $100 more than the other TridentZ and RipjawsV (also B-die) of exactly same timings, for exactly ZERO perceived difference in performance.
Instead, these are the 64GB (4 x16GB) kits of 3600 C14 that you'll find available at better prices from GSkill (and, IMO, the better deal) - look around for them:

RipjawsV 3600CL14

• F4-3600C14Q-64GVK (14-15-15-35) - https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/184/1604305491/F4-3600C14Q-64GVK-Specification
• F4-3600C14Q-64GVKA (14-14-14-34)- https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/184/1620974215/F4-3600C14Q-64GVKA-Specification

TridentZ (RGB) 3600CL14

• F4-3600C14Q-64GTZR (14-15-15-35) - https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1604305845/F4-3600C14Q-64GTZR-Specification
• F4-3600C14Q-64GTZRA (14-14-14-34) - https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1620975789/F4-3600C14Q-64GTZRA-Specification

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by LucShep
added links

[tower59]

How much in game FPS difference does RAM latency make? 

RipjawsV 3600CL14 (4 x 16GB) is about $540 while Ripjaws 3600CL18 is $270. 

[Hector45]

14 hours ago, LucShep said:

1) get a kit of 64GB (4x 16GB) in a single package, instead of two separate 32GB kits (of 2x 16GB each).

It's rare that identical memory kits give problems if put together but not unheard, as RAM sometimes is tricky (and pretty expensive at 64GB total).
With a single kit, at least you are 100% sure that the 4 sticks you bought are absolutely guaranteed to work together, no buts or ifs - just peace of mind.

 

 

 

Came here to post this, I just dealt with this first hand. Had two separate kits of 2x16GB 3200 bought at different times. While I had my 10600k it worked fine. When I upgraded to 11700k it would no longer post with XMP profile. Had to run at default speed or run two modules(32GB) with XMP. Ended up selling the two old kits for a 32GB x2 kit 3600.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Hector45

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, Hector45 said:

Came here to post this, I just dealt with this first hand. Had two separate kits of 2x16GB 3200 bought at different times. While I had my 10600k it worked fine. When I upgraded to 11700k it would no longer post with XMP profile. Had to run at default speed or run two modules(32GB) with XMP. Ended up selling the two old kits for a 32GB x2 kit 3600.

Yep, there you go.  
Avoid buying separate kits even of same model if possible, instead just get a single package with all the memory you want to use, ready and guaranteed to be used together.
 

12 hours ago, tower59 said:

How much in game FPS difference does RAM latency make? 

RipjawsV 3600CL14 (4 x 16GB) is about $540 while Ripjaws 3600CL18 is $270. 

The cheaper RipjawsV 3600C18 kit you mention is probably the F4-3600C18D-64GVK, or similar.
These are usually "SK Hynix" and 18-22-22-42 (or worse) ....much looser timings, higher latency, cheap memory. You're not me, but I'd avoid it.

The 3600 CL14 kits of Gskill that we've been talking about are "Samsung B-die", either 14-14-14-34 or 14-15-15-35  ....notice the much lower and tighter timings, lower latency.
It's cream of the crop, much better binned, top stuff, and why they're so expensive.

It may not make much difference in frames-per-second in games if using Intel processors (be it 12th gen "Alder Lake" or any other previous gen using DDR4) but there is a difference, as small as it is.
The thing is, in one or two years down the line, when you start looking at small bottlenecks here and there (eventually we all get to that, always), you'll most likely wish then that you went instead for the better binned, lower latency faster RAM.

The problem with the DDR4 3600C14 choice is "diminishing returns".
It is probably the best DDR4 RAM you can get for Intel 12th gen to run at "Gear 1" but, as with anything, you pay more and more for each small increase in performance as you've noticed. A lot more in this case, as you can see.

In my opinion, 3600 CL16 (16-16-16-36) and 3200 CL14 (14-14-14-34) that are also "B-die" (~450$ for a 4x16GB kit) was the sweet spot.
I say "was" because everybody and their mother has been buying these "B-die" kits also for Intel 12th gen with DDR4 motherboards (whereas before it was sought mostly for AMD Ryzen), so the prices kept going up and stock has been very low for these.
Hence why the 3600C14 kits recently got a lot more popular - while these are priced higher, the price difference became smaller and it's far easier to find them in stock (compared to 3600 CL16 and 3200 CL14 "B-die" kits).

Basically, it goes to down to cost.  But, I've noticed in the OT, you mention "not skimp" and "future proofing"....

If cost is no issue and you want the best of the best, you get "B-die" RAM, such as 3600 CL14, 3600 CL16, 3200 CL14 (and in that order of preference).

With that said, there is another excelent alternative at better prices, though it is also hard to find in stock now.
Look around for this Crucial Ballistix 64GB Kit (2x 32GB) DDR4 3600 CL16 - BL2K32G36C16U4B: https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/bl2k32g36c16u4b 

"Why Crucial and why this particular Ballistix kit?"
Because it's a "win-win" scenario with it. That particular 64GB kit BL2K32G36C16U4B ("Micron Rev.B", I believe) is DDR4 3600 low latency (16-18-18-38) as desired, probably the closest you'll get to the "Samsung B-die" kits that I've just mentioned.
The best part is that they sell at the lower prices (~310$) seen for competitors like that cheap and slower 3600 CL18 kit you mentioned.
Honestly, I don't think there is anything better for such prices. Finding it in stock and at the MRSP is another matter though...

Edited February 19, 2022 by LucShep

[tower59]

Thanks for the help with the memory question. I've put G.Skill Ripjaws V 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL14 Memory for $540 in my parts list as you suggested. 

Any thoughts on the motherboard? I need Wifi and I also anticipate needing a good number of ports for USB devices (flight controllers) + audio out capabilities. Is the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700     $265 appropriate? Do I just get a USB hub if I need it? Any suggestions?  Appreciate everyone's help here- my first PC!!!

[LucShep]

Just noticed that you've chosen the i9 12900K for the processor.  ....but for any particular reason? (professional content creation, etc?)

The i9 12900K runs extremely hot if pushed (360 rad is a must), huge power consumption, and it's also utter overkill for whatever sim/game - no matter how heavy or demanding it gets to be, it'll vastly underutilize that processor.
Moreover, it's quite expensive and will add no extra value over better alternatives (IMO).

Just get the i7 12700K. It's a killer processor, performs the same for any sim/game, probably the best Intel 12th gen processor to buy. More than you'll need for years to come, and it runs much, much cooler (which also makes things inside the computer case less of a fornace for the other components as well). Though there's no need for it, it also overclocks fine, like any "K" processor by tradition - if you ever get interested in it.
Plus, it's less expensive, saving you money that can be put into other likewise important hardware parts.

You also don't require a 360 AIO cooler for the i7 12700K, though of course it'll always be excelent for it (the one you've chosen is very, very good).
By the way, make very sure whatever cooler you get for Intel 12th gen that it is a newer version with LGA 1700 compatibility (launched in 4th quarter of 2021). If it isn't compatible "out of the box", see if the separate compatibility kit for LGA 1700 can be provided with it. 

For the Z690 DDR4 motherboard, so long as it's MSI, ASUS or Gigabyte, any and all Z690 DDR4 motherboards from these three brands are good, even the cheaper ones.
Choose according to your own preferences, for features, I/O ports, BIOS layout, aesthetics, price, etc.

Personally, I favour ASUS and MSI over any other motherboard brand.
For me, these two are the bests ones I've seen yet, plenty I/O ports, Wifi, excelent BIOS, super strong VRMs, overclocking fully capable, and big etc: 

• ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 
• MSI Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4

With that said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX that you've chosen, excelent motherboard as well.

Edited February 21, 2022 by LucShep

[Bossco82]

If it helps I would go with a 12700k in a DDR4 motherboard for DCS if I was in a position to. That would be to go with my 3090 too. 

[Burt]

With all that hard work go big ! But a sim pit and VR ? Might as well get the Varjo see through version … but then again that’s going huge. A sim pit and a Samsung super wide monitor would be a better match for a pit. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Burt

[Burt]

Disregard on the super wide monitor I just visited the build link Great work you both did !