Rocket video

[Dannyvandelft]

In coop mode, did George fire the rockets, or does the pilot?

 

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[Raptor9]

13 minutes ago, Dannyvandelft said:

In coop mode, did George fire the rockets, or does the pilot?

Typically the pilot does, but either crewmember can.  It just makes sense for the pilot since they are the ones flying and aligning the aircraft with the rocket steering.

If you're asking if George did in the video, he did not.  That was all Wags. George was just providing the aiming solution.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Raptor9

[LooseSeal]

I'd just like to tack onto this - Amazing video in general.

Well done Wags and all of ED. It was hugely impressive seeing it in more of its glory. The cockpit is a thing of beauty.

Can't wait for Hellfires next week!

[Donglr]

I need a Casmo follow-up on this. I basically understood nothin'

Why is the I beam not on the target? Why is it to the left of it? What is the role of the diamond? How is the I-beam different from a CCIP indicator? Do the pods move left and right as well as up and down with head movement?

[Dannyvandelft]

Typically the pilot does, but either crewmember can.  It just makes sense for the pilot since they are the ones flying and aligning the aircraft with the rocket steering.
If you're asking if George did in the video, he did not.  That was all Wags. George was just providing the aiming solution.

I was curious since it's supposed to be coop, but if the pilot is lining up the aircraft and firing, what is the CPG doing to make it coop?

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[Wychmaster]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Dannyvandelft:

I was curious since it's supposed to be coop, but if the pilot is lining up the aircraft and firing, what is the CPG doing to make it coop?

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Aiming the sensors at the target and use the laser to get a range.

[Dannyvandelft]

Aiming the sensors at the target and use the laser to get a range.

Ah copy! Thank you. Trying to wrap my head around this thing before we strap ourselves in for the first time haha.

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[Raptor9]

1 hour ago, Donglr said:

Why is the I beam not on the target? Why is it to the left of it?
How is the I-beam different from a CCIP indicator?

The I-beam is a steering cursor, not a CCIP.  If the I-beam is left, it is telling you to bring the nose left to hit what you are aiming at.

1 hour ago, Donglr said:

What is the role of the diamond?

The diamond is the Head Tracker.  It represents 0 deg in azimuth and elevation, the nose of the aircraft.

1 hour ago, Donglr said:

Do the pods move left and right as well as up and down with head movement?

No, just up and down.

The reason the I-beam moves like it does is based on either the HMD position (when shooting independently) or the TADS position (when shooting COOP).  Wherever the HMD LOS is pointing, you are telling the aircraft that is where the target is.
If you move your head left, you are telling the aircraft the target is now left, and the I-beam moves left to tell you to steer left to line-up.
If you move you head further left, the I-beam moves further left telling you the target is further left.

In COOP, moving your head doesn't matter because the I-beam is driven off the TADS.  So you have the CPG target, and you just line up the I-beam, doesn't matter where you look.

Using the Head Tracker (broken diamond) is just a technique to "walk the rockets" onto the target.  Not everyone uses it.

[Wags]

6 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

Using the Head Tracker (broken diamond) is just a technique to "walk the rockets" onto the target.  Not everyone uses it.

 

Just the cool kids.

[Raptor9]

[grabs his coat and walks out into the rain]

[Dannyvandelft]

No, just up and down.

The reason the I-beam moves like it does is based on either the HMD position (when shooting independently) or the TADS position (when shooting COOP).  Wherever the HMD LOS is pointing, you are telling the aircraft that is where the target is.
If you move your head left, you are telling the aircraft the target is now left, and the I-beam moves left to tell you to steer left to line-up.
If you move you head further left, the I-beam moves further left telling you the target is further left.
In COOP, moving your head doesn't matter because the I-beam is driven off the TADS.  So you have the CPG target, and you just line up the I-beam, doesn't matter where you look.
Using the Head Tracker (broken diamond) is just a technique to "walk the rockets" onto the target.  Not everyone uses it.

So is there a setting where the I beam is static as to say "if you shoot now, this is where they would hit" so it would follow the point of impact (like a CCIP)

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[Raptor9]

59 minutes ago, Dannyvandelft said:

So is there a setting where the I beam is static as to say "if you shoot now, this is where they would hit" so it would follow the point of impact (like a CCIP)

Nope. This is the way.

[kgillers3]

[Donglr]

28 minutes ago, Wychmaster said:

I am asking, because it doesn't match anything we saw in the video. 

My thoughts exactly! In the vid Wags explicitly puts the very right end of the head tracker on the target. The LOS is somewhat below the targets and the I Beam is to the left of it all. Yet still he hits something.

 

EDIT: ahhh, this is how it's done in the COOP mode where you do not control the I beam with your own head movement. You navigate the aircraft til the LOS is on the I beam, no matter if it is top, bottom or center, and shoot once you are on it horizontally.

Still the first method baffles me a bit

Edited February 20, 2022 by Donglr

[PlainSight]

Ok, so the head tracker broken diamond is like a gun cross on jets, showing you where the aircraft is pointing.

The flightpath marker shows you where the aircraft is going.

The line-of sight cross is where you're aiming.

And the I-beam position is calculated off these three?

 

[flo57100]

I'm confused as well with this I-beam thing, that looks a LOT different from what I am used with KA or the Hind, which is straight-forward for firing rockets. But I guess that will be more evident and easy to do with practice

From what I understood, to use rockets you MUST have something locked with sensors, you can not "CCIPing" them like the KA ?

Edited February 20, 2022 by flo57100

[BIGNEWY]

A reminder to all please do not post images from real world manuals here on the forum. Rules can be found at the top of the forum. 

thanks

[AvroLanc]

54 minutes ago, flo57100 said:

I'm confused as well with this I-beam thing, that looks a LOT different from what I am used with KA or the Hind, which is straight-forward for firing rockets. But I guess that will be more evident and easy to do with practice

From what I understood, to use rockets you MUST have something locked with sensors, you can not "CCIPing" them like the KA ?

 

 

It's still like the Ka-50 and the Hind, the rockets still fire straight forward (ish). The only difference is that the pylons can independently articulate up and down to compensate for errors in aircraft pitch, which means you can be more flexible with the pitch angle you fly.

The pylons adjust vertically up and down based on the point of aim (The Line Of Sight, LOS) and the Range. The horizontal aspect of LOS is obviously achieved by turning/pointing the helicopter. The LOS can be defined in a number of ways; P-HMD, C-HMD, TADS, or FCR. Wag's used P-HMD and TADS in his video. 

You don't always need to 'lock with sensors', you mean the TADS (but please use 'Sights', as in Apache 'Sensors' means something else). As in the video, Wags was using the P-HMD to physically look, or place the LOS cross on the target. (The hard and important bit is keeping your head/cross on the target, Wags didn't really do this). This defines the point of aim. The I-Beam then tells you where to fly in the horizontal plane to align the rockets with target. I-beam left, fly left, I-beam right, fly right etc. The vertical alignment is not as strict, due to pylons articulating +4.9 to - 15 degrees. But you still need to pitch the helicopter within the limits. (Note the 'Pylons Limits' and 'Limits' messages in the HAD when Wags was aiming at a point outside the articulating range of the pylons).

When the LOS Cross and the I-Beam and the Target are all lined up, you fire.

So yes, it's not CCIP, but you can attack quick targets without relying on the CPG/TADS. But note that the COOP mode is going to be more accurate and you don't have to worry about your pilots head movement messing up the solution. (You can do COOP with C-HMD, but why would you?, let's not go there).

Wag's mentions the Headtracker diamond as a way of it providing a fixed reference point to align the aircraft around. Think of the fixed reticle in the Hind or KA-50, it's the same principle. It's the datum line of the nose. As with any rocket firing, pointing the nose at the target is a good starting point, so point the Headtracker diamond on the target and then refine the aim with LOS cross and I-beam symbology. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by AvroLanc

[FELIX2013BRASIL]

Acredito que não.

[Raptor9]

5 hours ago, PlainSight said:

And the I-beam position is calculated off these three?

No, the I-beam is calculated based on the LOS reticle (solid crosshairs).

This is why I stress that using the headtracker to aim is just a technique. It's not that it is the wrong way to shoot rockets, but it doesn't lend itself to understanding the functionality of the Rocket Steering Cursor (I-beam).

It is important to understand that the "I-beam" is called the Rocket Steering Cusor. It describes what it is indicating to the pilot.

[hotrod525]

i might be a bit off topic, but can we know the location Wags Fob located at please ? Asking for a friend...

[Dannyvandelft]

Ok, so follow up question, which method is used by the guys and girls actually flying the thing? And how is it different from Wags' video, if any?

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[Dannyvandelft]

If you’re referring to hmd vs coop both. We are required to know and are tested on both. Which you would use is situation dependent. 
 
How’s it different?  I’ve never had 4 rocket pods on. 

Appreciate all the answers, really. Just adds to the excitement of this already amazing module.


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[Floyd1212]

8 hours ago, Donglr said:

My thoughts exactly! In the vid Wags explicitly puts the very right end of the head tracker on the target. The LOS is somewhat below the targets and the I Beam is to the left of it all. Yet still he hits something.

This is also confusing me.

Do you always line up the right end of the head tracker on the target (which would seem strange), or is this the "Kentucky windage" he refers to where he knows based on the conditions at the moment that he will need to aim a little left of the target for this shot?

Also, he is clearly not lining up his head tracker on the W02 marker.  Is this because he knows exactly where the enemy units are place (since he placed them there himself), and he was just using the W02 waypoint to navigate to the general direction?

[Ramsay]

13 hours ago, hotrod525 said:

i might be a bit off topic, but can we know the location Wags Fob located at please ? Asking for a friend...

The MGRS coordinates of WP02 in the video are 37S DA 9694 0433 and the nearest base to that location is the Tal Siman military base i.e. north of Raqqa and part of the Syria map's free eastern expansion.

This is a picture of the base/runway without the barriers, tents, vehicles, etc. that Wags placed around it's ramp area.

More detail on the eastern expansion of the Syria map is here https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/239806-syria-preview/?do=findComment&comment=4897988

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ramsay