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CPG George...available commands? How flexible is he?


AvroLanc

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I appreciate George will get detailed later, but can ED shed any light on the commands we might get?

In Wag's latest Rockets video, we got a sneak look at CPG George, it appears we can tell him to at the very least;

1) Select/WAS a particular weapon and define config - Type of Rocket + Salvo Size, and I saw Gun burst length too.

2) Look in a particular direction to begin a target search.

Upon commanded to search the CPG slaved the TADS to the PHS, but once a target was found he deslaved. How flexible is this going to be? Can we tell CPG George which Acquisition Source I want him to use? I.e tell him to search around a Waypoint or Target point, can I ask him to look at my Terrain point, tell him to search/scan at his own will? Can I tell him to remain slaved to my PHS and report targets he sees, and deslave on command (more flexible then always deslaving once TADS is on commanded point) etc.

The big one: For Hellfire which options can I configure for him? MAN, NORM, RIPPLE options? DIR, LO, HI Trajectory options? Can we interact and tell him which codes to use? When to lase, i.e whether you want a LOBL or LOAL launch (important!)? How many Ripple missiles to fire.... Hellfire is a complicated one.

Will George independently engage targets (when commanded) for example with the Gun, while I pull off from a rocket attack? Tell him 'Please WAS the Gun and Fire at Will, I'll use rockets', and other combinations etc.

Thanks, I appreciate I might need to wait, but the interaction with George is going to be critical and I wonder how it's all been done.


Edited by AvroLanc
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The whole thing looks like it's going to be very, rudimentary at best. Which is a damn shame. I might have to skip the Apache. It's either that or try to find people to train and fly with. 

I wish Eagle Dynamics would come out with some more videos of George in action (and they probably will) but I suspect a lot of people (who play singleplayer) will be disappointed with his implementation. From what little what I've seen I know I already am.

I guess I was hoping for a more robust AI, one which I as a pilot don't have to handhold into finding targets. I mean what if I don't know the targets are there? I guess I was hoping that George would be able to be more autonomous, maybe he will be, but if Petrovich is anything to go by, I'm not holding my breath on this. 


Edited by Lurker

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

I guess I was hoping for a more robust AI, one which I as a pilot don't have to handhold into finding targets. I mean what if I don't know the targets are there? I guess I was hoping that George would be able to be more autonomous, maybe he will be, but if Petrovich is anything to go by, I'm not holding my breath on this. 

 

Let's wait and see what they tell us in the video about George. Maybe some of what they have been developing will improve aspects for Petrovich too. Who knows.
Some kind of visual feedback about targets the AI cpg has found would be lovely though it has to be said. Currently flying and finding targets can get pretty tricky.

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Think I’ll wait for a Wags video on George before I make any decisions on the AI interaction. 
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am wondering about this too.  I hope "George" isn't just sitting up front reading the latest issue of Playgirl unless we tell him specifically where to look and what to do.  I am disappointed in the interface as well, I was hoping for something more like Jesters wheel or other type of pop up menu, there are going to be enough buttons to map and remember without having to dedicate one to "George".  I hope I can get around some of that with Voice Attack (where he will be called Carl, or Hank, or something....but not George!).  Its going to be tough enough to find enough buttons for the Apache as it is.  

 

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On 2/22/2022 at 12:23 PM, Dannyvandelft said:

Same. I was hoping for a Jester type AI, but hopefully George isn't as bad as Petrovich.

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 Whats wrong with Petrovich? I find the wheel a bit clunky, but thats just it...he does his job as gunner well. As a pilot though, its iffy.

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I am wondering about this too.  I hope "George" isn't just sitting up front reading the latest issue of Playgirl unless we tell him specifically where to look and what to do.  I am disappointed in the interface as well, I was hoping for something more like Jesters wheel or other type of pop up menu, there are going to be enough buttons to map and remember without having to dedicate one to "George".  I hope I can get around some of that with Voice Attack (where he will be called Carl, or Hank, or something....but not George!).  Its going to be tough enough to find enough buttons for the Apache as it is.  
 
You dual bind them. For instance, in the Hind I have the trim hat for trim, and Petrovich commands. Center hat click switches between the two.
Apache will be the same. Hat for weapon selection, center press to switch to George and back.

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 Whats wrong with Petrovich? I find the wheel a bit clunky, but thats just it...he does his job as gunner well. As a pilot though, its iffy.
Nothing "wrong" with him, he's just not very lifelike. Jester feels part of the crew. And he can do a ton more things.

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The biggest takeaway from the early access guide is just how disappointing George is going to be. 
 

He’s going to work exactly like petrovich. You need to command him to specifically search a limited area along your line of sight. He won’t independently scan the TADS and report targets nor keep a record of targets that you can cycle though. He can’t be commanded to search in any other way than your LOS. I would have liked him to scan at a WP or Target point. Or scan 30 degrees left and right as we move along etc. 

If you look at the older sims like Longbow games etc. The CPG in those would call out threats, keep a target list with a way of selecting closest/most threatening/best targets, verbally identify etc. The Janes CPG knocks Petrovich out the window.

Petrovich worked ok with Hind but it doesn’t convert well to the Apache. Hopefully it’ll get more work. 

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According to the EA guide George is indeed very underwhelming... I expected to see some progress with George since Petrovich. But it seems they are on the same level. 

The AI is such an important part of two seaters, I hope they dont forget it in EA between all the other Systems! 

Maybe ED can have a bit insight into jester from heatblur? 🙂He is such a nice solution! 


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1 hour ago, NeedzWD40 said:

My only question is can George buddy lase?

Yes, once he has a target he will lase it. No matter who it is for. Wags will go over this in a video most likely. 

thanks

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4 hours ago, AvroLanc said:

If you look at the older sims like Longbow games etc. The CPG in those would call out threats, keep a target list with a way of selecting closest/most threatening/best targets, verbally identify etc

The ideal system for me, would be one in which George had a 'detection probability' kind of thing. So, he's not guaranteed to detect and call out threats as soon as they're within a certain range. The probability of him seeing them would be affected both by chance and by various other factors: range, weather, lighting, terrain, size of the enemy unit, skill level of the enemy unit perhaps, etc etc.

A true artificial 'intelligence' like that would be a fantastic addition.

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1 minute ago, LooseSeal said:

The ideal system for me, would be one in which George had a 'detection probability' kind of thing. So, he's not guaranteed to detect and call out threats as soon as they're within a certain range. The probability of him seeing them would be affected both by chance and by various other factors: range, weather, lighting, terrain, size of the enemy unit, skill level of the enemy unit perhaps, etc etc.

A true artificial 'intelligence' like that would be a fantastic addition.

Yeah I’m sure some of those factors all ready work with the current very formal ‘look there’ mechanic. 

What he needs is the ability to search independently (at logically locations such as waypoints and target points) and somehow naturally inform the player. Without any kind of voice acting it’s going to be difficult. We’re still waiting for Petrovich voice 9 months on. Calling out threats would be a bonus too.  

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On 2/22/2022 at 7:27 PM, Madman777 said:

At least we won't have to command our Apache AI to close any doors before turning. Hate when I forget to do that.   

That's not quite true - in the meantime he's doing it on his own.

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11 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said:

You dual bind them. For instance, in the Hind I have the trim hat for trim, and Petrovich commands. Center hat click switches between the two.
Apache will be the same. Hat for weapon selection, center press to switch to George and back.

 

How do you set it up for that?

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5 minutes ago, Dannyvandelft said:

Through the control menu, button binds.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

Yeah, I know that, I mean how do you set it up so the center press toggles between the two different command sets?  Is it a general toggle that affects every button, or is it somehow specific to that button.  Thats the part I could use clarification on.  

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13 minutes ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

Yeah, I know that, I mean how do you set it up so the center press toggles between the two different command sets?  Is it a general toggle that affects every button, or is it somehow specific to that button.  Thats the part I could use clarification on.  

You make it a modifier or switch. On control screen theres a tab to create modifier. Modifier can be added to any control bind. You just hold that down and press input. A switch gives your controls ( all of them) a new layer. It will switch back and forth between layers.


Edited by cthulhu68

 

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I am familiar with modifiers and switches, but not how to use a button press as a switch to change to a different layer of commands.  I am used to using a physical switch or a modifier that you have to hold down.  That is what I am curious about, the button press as a switch.

 

 

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Its nothing special. The button press just brings up a menu that activates and deactivates when pressed again that override other assigned buttons. I guess you can say it adds a few extra things those buttons can do, but it prioritizes by whether or not the menu is activated or deactivated. You can map 2 separate controls for a hat switch, but that menu button switches between the two functions so to speak.

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Yeah, I know that, I mean how do you set it up so the center press toggles between the two different command sets?  Is it a general toggle that affects every button, or is it somehow specific to that button.  Thats the part I could use clarification on.  
I think it's called "show/hide AI menu" you bind that to the center hat press.

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I passed of prepurchasing the Apache to the fact that Petrovich is just dead weight at the moment, and seeing how George at the moment looks the same, I think I took the proper decision.

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