cannot reproduce Proximity fuze

[MBot]

It isn't mentioned very often, but isn't the lack of proximity fuzes a pretty big flaw in DCS? Any word on whether that is planned to be implemented eventually?

[Swift.]

Last I checked there are prox fuses on AAM in DCS.

[MBot]

I have never seen a proximity detonation in DCS. If an AIM-54 misses by a few meters it goes right by without detonation.

[Northstar98]

I see them all the time, particularly with SAMs and AAMs (so far they're detonating provided the target is within a small cone ahead of the missile, I'll keep testing)

 

EDIT: yeah it seems so, I've seen at least the AIM-120C pass underneath a target and explode, although it seems frontal aspect (+/- 45° ahead of the missile so far).

 

At least 1 9M33 passed close (maybe 5 or so metres underneath and not detonate).

Edited January 31, 2020 by Northstar98

[MBot]

I stand corrected, proximity fuzes are simulated. Some weapons just seem to be worse than others. The SA-2 stands out especially.

[Kang]

Funny thing is how it hasn't even been in DCS for so long.

[MBot]

Looking at the screens again, I notice that all missiles are at 1.0 G. Might it be possible that in DCS the proximity fuze is only working as long as the missile is still actively guiding?

[KlarSnow]

Its been discussed to death elsewhere but long story short, the prox fuze only fuzes off the pilots head. That's the distance it is using to measure whether or not it detonates.

 

So on a big aircraft like a Flanker or Tomcat if you have a 50 foot prox fuze, its completely possible in DCS for it to fly 2 feet behind the tail and be 60 feet from the pilots head, and fail to fuze.

 

In Multiplayer it gets even stranger due to desync issues, and due to the speeds and time frames involved can lead to some seemingly impossible results. Trying to make sense of it can just make your brain hurt but basically missile and plane positions aren't 100% synced between the clients and server at all times, and the shooter's client is responsible for determining if the missile is a hit or not.

 

This is how you have missiles that (especially in tacview) seem to fly thru a plane and not detonate, or blow up a mile or more away from the target killing the target, the positions are not 100% synced between all clients and are severely affected by any lag. This all gets exacerbated by longer missile time of flights (more time for this desync error to grow).

Edited February 1, 2020 by KlarSnow

[Northstar98]

Its been discussed to death elsewhere but long story short, the prox fuze only fuzes off the pilots head. That's the distance it is using to measure whether or not it detonates.

 

So on a big aircraft like a Flanker or Tomcat if you have a 50 foot prox fuze, its completely possible in DCS for it to fly 2 feet behind the tail and be 60 feet from the pilots head, and fail to fuze.

 

Whaaaa????

[KlarSnow]

Sounds crazy but this is the state of DCS missile fuzing and net sync right now, as I've said, if you dig, its been all discussed and laid out before, this is how it works right now.

 

What it all comes down to is, your rage about something that should have killed a dude but didn't is just game mechanics at work. Until a massive overhaul of several DCS systems get fixed(if they ever get fixed), this is what you have to deal with.

Edited February 2, 2020 by KlarSnow

[-0303-]

Not just missiles.

It was important in defense from Japanese Kamikaze attacks in the Pacific. Bush estimated a sevenfold increase in the effectiveness of 5-inch antiaircraft artillery with this innovation.

Are there/ should there be proximity fuze AAA in DCS?

[Northstar98]

Not just missiles.

 

Are there/ should there be proximity fuze AAA in DCS?

 

There should be variable time delay fuses on DP naval guns. As of right now only 88mm Flak guns from the WW2 asset pack have them.

 

Not entirely sure about proximity fusing (they'll have the same effect, but I imagine proximity fuses would explode more accurately, just not sure what AD gun systems have them.

[Shadow KT]

Fuzes are present in DCS, but it doesn't mean that they are any good or effective and they can't be worked on....

 

Yes, you have the MP desync, but you get the same happening in SP as well.... Desync really isn't that bad....

 

War Thunder has pretty well done fuzes

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=253981

 

Yeah KlarSnow said it.... been discussed for a long time and the head fuzing thing as well

Edited February 2, 2020 by Shadow KT

[Northstar98]

 

Does the Stinger we have in DCS even have a proximity fuse?

[Hobel]

When will we see proximity fuze in DCS?

 

Helicopters like MI-24 or Ka50 already have this possibility, what is the problem with airplanes like F16-F18 and others that the missiles do not have a Proximity fuze yet?

the same applies to sam systems.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Hobel

[ricktoberfest]

They do have them. They don’t always work, but I wonder if the real ones have the same failure rate?  Apparently multiplayer sync issues could be a problem for proximity fuses if you’re playing online. 

[Northstar98]

39 minutes ago, ricktoberfest said:

They do have them. They don’t always work, but I wonder if the real ones have the same failure rate?  Apparently multiplayer sync issues could be a problem for proximity fuses if you’re playing online. 

It's not so much that they have a failure rate, it's just there are a couple of things that make them a bit finicky:

Multiplayer sync issues are definitely an issue. AFAIK, weapon stuff is based on the shooter, but if there's some desync going on, it'sthat from the shooter's perspective, their missile missed, whereas from the perspective of the person being shot at it looks like it should have fused and detonated.

The other issue is that IIRC, the fuse distance is modelled based on the missile to the pilot's head, and not necessarily to the distance of whatever reflecting target, though I doubt will see much improvement there unless we go for some ray-traced scheme.

[Hobel]

On 2/23/2022 at 9:21 PM, ricktoberfest said:

They do have them. They don’t always work, but I wonder if the real ones have the same failure rate?  Apparently multiplayer sync issues could be a problem for proximity fuses if you’re playing online. 

Just not always? I have had up to 100 Aim120s shot at me on some evenings and there was never a  Proximity fuze

I am of the opinion that they do not exist at least with the known rockets.

 

 

Aim120
aim9
Aim7
 just to name a few, the missiles always fly a few inches past the aircraft if possible, I have never seen a   Proximity fuze and if I have, it has something to do with Dsync.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Hobel

[Northstar98]

4 minutes ago, Hobel said:

Just not always? I have had up to 100 Aim120s shot at me on some evenings and there was never a  Proximity fuze

I am of the opinion that they do not exist at least with the known rockets.

 

 

Aim120
aim9
Aim7
 just to name a few, the missiles always fly a few inches past the aircraft if possible, I have never seen a   Proximity fuze and if I have, it has something to do with Dsync.

All those missiles definitely have proximity fuses modelled, and my guess is that desync is playing a part here and you just got extremely unlucky.

[Hobel]

do you have proof, how do you come to this conclusion? I also tested it against AI in SP and never saw it.

that's what i'm talking about

https://streamable.com/?src_player=page-video-logo

Edited February 23, 2022 by Hobel

[Northstar98]

20 hours ago, Hobel said:

do you have proof, how do you come to this conclusion? I also tested it against AI in SP and never saw it.

that's what i'm talking about

https://streamable.com/?src_player=page-video-logo

 

It's getting a little late where I am, but I'll post some tracks tomorrow, watch this space.

EDIT: Track posted, AIM-10C-5 detonates a few metres from the target.

AIM-120C-5_proximity_fuse.trk

Edited February 24, 2022 by Northstar98
track posted

[ricktoberfest]

18 hours ago, Hobel said:

do you have proof, how do you come to this conclusion? I also tested it against AI in SP and never saw it.

that's what i'm talking about

https://streamable.com/?src_player=page-video-logo

 

I’m on a phone so won’t try and post links, but it’s pretty obvious just watching Growling Sidewinder’s dogfight videos you often see the missile explode beside the aircraft and then the aircraft explodes. Like was said earlier, it’s not a perfect system (I mean the programming in DCS) so often the missiles don’t explode.  There’s also the previously mentioned issue that missiles seem to track the pilot and not the airplane (or at least the cockpit).  If you fly the F18 you know this to be true. Pilot kills are 90% of all hits. 

[Hobel]

However, these explosions you see online is not the rule and rather occurs because of a dsync problem.
Partly the missiles explode several km behind you and destroy your plane, especially with servers that are very overloaded occurs more often.
Or the complete opposite occurs

[Exorcet]

DCS has proximity fuses, 100% true.

 

Sadly I don't have video but I do have screenshots of an interesting S-300 encounter. The missile barely had energy and was almost in formation with me so I thought I was safe, until it exploded off my wingtip and took me out.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Exorcet

[Hobel]

31 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

DCS has proximity fuses, 100% true.

 

Sadly I don't have video but I do have screenshots of an interesting S-300 encounter. The missile barely had energy and was almost in formation with me so I thought I was safe, until it exploded off my wingtip and took me out.

 

 

So if it works quite well on a few rockets, we ignore it on those where it doesn't work at all?

Is the video I added a lie? especially in air combat between aircraft PF is very important.