problematic 4 way hats on the CM3 throttle

[SkipCarey]

I just ordered this throttle today and have started to become aware of issues with the reliability of the (1 -8way and 3- 4ways) 4 way hats on the throttle,(no mention in the reviews)and as this is a major reason for me wanting this throttle,and Im having serious second thoughts and am considering cancelling the order ,anyone please chime in if you have first hand knowledge of this issue and if its been resolved or is till a problem for current users...............

Edited February 25, 2022 by SkipCarey
clarify

[speed-of-heat]

there is no generic reliability problem with the 4-way hats.

There is a generic problem with reviewers not understanding the raw data, which is what is shown in the VPC configuration tool and the output that is seen in windows, by the game (you can see that also in the VPC joystick tester), and going "OMG multiple button presses"... which is not what is registered in the game.

You have made a good choice, keep it ordered.

Edited February 25, 2022 by speed-of-heat
typo corrected

[LeCuvier]

36 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

...here is a generic problem with reviewers not understanding the raw data, which is what is shown in the VPC configuration tool and the output that is seen in windows, by the game (you can see that also in the VPC joystick tester), and going "OMG multiple button presses"... which is not what is registered in the game...

If read this several times but it didn't help. Can you elaborate?

[speed-of-heat]

if you look at the hat presses in VPC joystick configuration tool you will observe that on a single directional click, you will "see" multiple buttons depressed.  This is raw data, when you are in game (or using the VPC TEST software) you only see a single button pressed.

Reviewers look at the Config  software and go "the hats are not reliable" and cause multiple presses

[SkipCarey]

4 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

there is no generic reliability problem with the 3-way hats.

There is a generic problem with reviewers not understanding the raw data, which is what is shown in the VPC configuration tool and the output that is seen in windows, by the game (you can see that also in the VPC joystick tester), and going "OMG multiple button presses"... which is not what is registered in the game.

You have made a good choice, keep it ordered.

3way hats...................?

[SkipCarey]

Ive seen the explanation your referring to but Ive also seen other folks seeing multiple keypresses in the DCS control but so far only one person has this issue that I can tell ,I have Virpils Constellation Alpha with this issue on one hat, it forces you to be VERY PRECISE with the hat so much  so that I just dont map anything to the horizontal part of the hat, for the price they want for this throttle I dont think Id consider it something I can live with.............Ive read that its because of the non gated hats virpil has chosen to use , but I do appreciate your input

[speed-of-heat]

4-way apologies hand key failure

 

[dburne]

5 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

there is no generic reliability problem with the 4-way hats.

There is a generic problem with reviewers not understanding the raw data, which is what is shown in the VPC configuration tool and the output that is seen in windows, by the game (you can see that also in the VPC joystick tester), and going "OMG multiple button presses"... which is not what is registered in the game.

You have made a good choice, keep it ordered.

 

 

This exactly. I have been running my CM3 Throttle for several months now and absolutely love it. And yes I use the Hats.

I would add that I did have an issue initially with my Mini Stick sticking in a certain direction. Virpil promptly took the unit back at their expense and repaired it and got it back to me pronto. Been sailing along ever since perfectly.

Edited February 25, 2022 by dburne

[SkipCarey]

Glad to hear it because, I love the Idea of lots of 4 way hats as it makes removing your hands from the throttle to control weapons/comms and the radar a lot less frequent (and the whole reason I ordered this expensive throttle)the (4) 4way hats are what makes this throttle unique and to me worth the price of admission(almost..........ouch)

Edited February 25, 2022 by SkipCarey

[speed-of-heat]

actually having come from a warthog ... the price of admission is more than worth it just for the fidelity of throttle movement ... and tbh the hats are nice to have, bear in mind that they are actually 5 way in the sense that they all have a depress as well 

[Meatshield]

The hats are garbage, unless I'm missing something.

If you want to use it as a 4-way and you press and hold a direction, then say move the throttle while holding it, or just twitch a little too close to one of the corners, it will either add a second button press if in 8-way mode, or drop the original button press in 4-way mode. They cannot be reliably used as mic switches, the a-10 coolie hat, a speed brake switch, or anything where you want to be able to reliably press a direction and hold it for a duration.

There is no way to use them as 4-way hats other than playing a stupid game of "don't touch the corners".

It would be a simple logic change for them to just not change any button outputs when a 4-way is pushed into a corner, as it's not a valid combo to interpret. You can assume if the user was pushing a direction, and is still pushing that direction, they still want the original button held down, even if they accidentally touched a corner.

In 8 way if a user pushes some direction, and then towards a corner, the software correctly interprets user intent as wanting to add in a second direction. In 4 way if a user pushes some direction, and then towards a corner, the software assumes the user doesn't want to be pushing the hat at all. WHAT? WHY?

Edited February 25, 2022 by Meatshield
clarity

[Meatshield]

If the issue is that they consider it a requirement of 4-way mode to not be able to go directly from one direction to another (using my logic, up to up-right to right would simultaneously drop up and start asserting right once you got out of the up-right corner, no dead zone), I'd rather see it where you need to go back to not pressing anything for it to register another press. So you could press up, and then do a full 360 if you wanted and it would still be asserting up until the hat doesn't see any of its physical inputs asserted. Assert the first direction until there are no directions pressed. Boom, fixed.

Make one of these schemes an option, at least. The current behavior does a very bad job of translating user intent into button outputs. I'm never pressing on a 4-way hat and intending to send zero button presses.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Meatshield

[zildac]

actually having come from a warthog ... the price of admission is more than worth it just for the fidelity of throttle movement ... and tbh the hats are nice to have, bear in mind that they are actually 5 way in the sense that they all have a depress as well 

Completely agree having also comes from the Warthog. Also went Warbrd base which made a huge difference to me personally in AAR

[dburne]

I use a hat on my CM3 Throttle as Mic switch for Vaicom Pro w/Voice Attack with no problem.

[speed-of-heat]

Yep, same

[Meatshield]

You guys are saying it doesn't drop the button in the corner for you?

Could you share a screenshot of your button/ALPs decoder settings?

[speed-of-heat]

Nope it doesn’t, I haven’t done anything special. 

[Meatshield]

Thank god, I was hoping it was a bug on my end. What software version are you using? I'm on the latest, and here are my settings:

[speed-of-heat]

As I said earlier… don’t test in the config software, test in the test software. Not sure what version I’m on, I’d have to check, but I see similar behaviour in the config software, but not in game and not, in the test software… 

Edited February 26, 2022 by speed-of-heat
added settings and version

[imacken]

2 hours ago, Meatshield said:

Thank god, I was hoping it was a bug on my end. What software version are you using? I'm on the latest, and here are my settings:

Firstly, Stuart (SOH) is absolutely correct. Never look at VPC Config to see what is happening in Windows. Always use JoyTester.

When I look in Configurator, I see the same behaviour as you. However, in JoyTester if I rotate the hat clockwise or anticlockwise, the buttons show up correctly, one at a time.

The only issue I have had with Virpil devices hats is that if the centre press is bound, then occasionally that will action in-game when I am trying to get another direction.  For that reason, I tend to avoid binding to the centre press.

(BTW, Stuart, you're using very old software/firmware from November 2020.  You've got a CM3 haven't you?  Well, the latest RC 20211201 has the new method of coding the detents and lots of other new features that are well worth looking at.  Avoid the one that was released recently, i.e. 20220208 as it has a couple of bugs which will be fixed very soon, I believe.)

[speed-of-heat]

Thanks Iain, I  do have the CM3, I was waiting for it to hit live before i went to the new version.

[imacken]

The live version has got a couple of bad bugs as discussed on my thread on Virpil forums. The 20211201 version ia solid though. 

[speed-of-heat]

roger that, i have been watching you there  

[SkipCarey]

8 way hats are a problem no matter what manufacturers hardware they are on at least for me...........

[SkipCarey]

im having trouble finding that 1201 version of the software.................lots of others including the 208 version