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Three different timeline variants of OH-58 from 1984 to 2017

bies

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in DCS: OH-58 Kiowa

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bies

bies

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"We have made the decision to present the whole timeline of the aircraft from 1984 till 2017 with some exceptions to avionics. This means the product will include the OH-58D Kiowa (no weapons pylons), the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior from 1992 till 2006 and the latest aircraft of 2017 all in one module”.

I'm so glad you have chosen to make 3 different variants from different timeline instead of only 2017 one. Could you please elaborate some most important difference between the three?


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Ramsay

Ramsay

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On 3/4/2022 at 11:39 PM, bies said:

I'm so glad you have chosen to make 3 different variants from different timeline instead of only 2017 one. Could you please elaborate some most important difference between the three?

AFAIK the DCS Kiowa Warrior is planned to be a single airframe with a selection of loadout options to cover the most common configurations used between 1992 to 2017 i.e. it will not be like the DCS Gazelle which has separate hard coded "variants".

The mentioned "1984" variant is the original OH-58D recon Kiowa i.e. before it became the "warrior" and could carry weapons.  

Planned (but subject to change) options include
• removable MMS
• removable Doors
• removable weapons pylons
• Alternative landing skids (rapid deployment gear)
• older AQL-144 (IR disco ball) or the newer AN/AAR-57 (CMWS) that replaced it.
• ATAS FIM-92 Stinger A/A
• M3P .50 cal
• M260 rocket launcher with 7x Hydra rockets (HE, MPP, illumination and smoke)
• AGM-114K Hellfire Missiles
• M18 Smoke grenades
• APKWS Laser Guided Rockets

Note: I haven't seen anything suggesting we'll get an option to fit the older XM296 .50 cal but the same used to be said about the AQL-144 disco ball ???


Edited by Ramsay
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Ramsay

Ramsay

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3 hours ago, R.Z. said:

I didn't know Kiowa could equip stinger missiles. Certainly haven't seen that config in any photos. Interesting...

Air to Air

 

Weapon trials including vs speed boats with a heat source

 

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R.Z.

R.Z.

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On 3/8/2022 at 12:47 PM, Ramsay said:

Air to Air

 

Weapon trials including vs speed boats with a heat source

 

Very nice, thanks~ So KW can do everything Apache does, just not all at the same time and with less ammo, and less button pressing as well (hopefully). This furthers my confirmation in getting this module when released. I've always liked KW over Apache. Would rather get a Cobra for attack helo instead. I guess I'm just a fan for Bell helicopters.

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csdigitaldesign

csdigitaldesign

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@R.Z.

On 3/15/2022 at 12:58 AM, R.Z. said:

Very nice, thanks~ So KW can do everything Apache does, just not all at the same time and with less ammo, and less button pressing as well (hopefully). This furthers my confirmation in getting this module when released. I've always liked KW over Apache. Would rather get a Cobra for attack helo instead. I guess I'm just a fan for Bell helicopters.

Yes actually the Kiowa can do MORE than the Apache... cause the Apache (the version we are getting) cannot use Stingers or the APKWS (laser guided rockets) but the Kiowa can.

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bies

bies

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On 3/17/2022 at 7:20 AM, csdigitaldesign said:

@R.Z.

Yes actually the Kiowa can do MORE than the Apache... cause the Apache (the version we are getting) cannot use Stingers or the APKWS (laser guided rockets) but the Kiowa can.

Apache is 2007 variant. Kiowa Warrior from mid 2000s to cooperate with our 2007 Apache (second of three variants Polychop has made) may not have APKWS integration as well. Looking forward to this helicopter, i keep my fingers crossed Polychop can finish it quickly after temporary delay caused by personal problems of their employees.

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Ramsay

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9 hours ago, bies said:

Apache is 2007 variant. Kiowa Warrior from mid 2000s to cooperate with our 2007 Apache (second of three variants Polychop has made) may not have APKWS integration as well.

The Kiowa Warrior being modelled by Polychop is/was the version fielded in Afghanistan in 2017, hence the removal of the AQL-144 (IR disco ball), newer (2012) M3P .50 cal., removal of doors, etc.

Polychop's KW was already demonstrated firing the APKWS in April 2020 (i.e. 6 months before the A-10C II upgrade was released)

 

What's new (and exciting) in Polychop's announcement is the decision to make older equipment/weapons available, allow doors to be fitted for colder theatres, etc.


Edited by Ramsay

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BaD CrC

BaD CrC

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My understanding is that A2A capability was tested on the KW but dropped as the assumption was taken that US will always have air superiority on any theater. But of course I'd be super happy to have this in DCS.

Yes, I have high hopes on the KW module. The 64 is nice but I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment by the amount of switches and buttons to press to do anything. It kinda kills a bit the joy of flying a chopper. Now, yes, the KW can shoot Hellfires but that would be used only for targets of opportunity or self defense since you'd probably have at most 2 of them, most likely only one loaded, with a max cruise speed of 90kt. A KW pilot was telling me that what you want is not to use your weapons but make the others use theirs. So the Apache really doesn't need to worry about being replaced by a KW.


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Avimimus

Avimimus

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On 3/21/2022 at 5:06 PM, BaD CrC said:

My understanding is that A2A capability was tested on the KW but dropped as the assumption was taken that US will always have air superiority on any theater. But of course I'd be super happy to have this in DCS.

Yes, I have high hopes on the KW module. The 64 is nice but I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment by the amount of switches and buttons to press to do anything. It kinda kills a bit the joy of flying a chopper. Now, yes, the KW can shoot Hellfires but that would be used only for targets of opportunity or self defense since you'd probably have at most 2 of them, most likely only one loaded, with a max cruise speed of 90kt. A KW pilot was telling me that what you want is not to use your weapons but make the others use theirs. So the Apache really doesn't need to worry about being replaced by a KW.

I gather that an OH-58 with a pair of hellfires is a lot cheaper to operate than an AH-64 with a pair of hellfires... and in a COIN or patrol type situation having a couple of Hellfires can be pretty effective fire support to buy time for a squad of infantry... In such a situation a few APKWS look pretty attractive in terms of both cost and flexibility/effect.

Of course, if one is facing a scenario with heavy enemy forces then keeping the OH-58 light and lasing for the AH-64 makes the most sense.

Context matters... I wonder what context would justify ATAS/Stinger?

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Nahen

Nahen

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5 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I gather that an OH-58 with a pair of hellfires is a lot cheaper to operate than an AH-64 with a pair of hellfires... and in a COIN or patrol type situation having a couple of Hellfires can be pretty effective fire support to buy time for a squad of infantry... In such a situation a few APKWS look pretty attractive in terms of both cost and flexibility/effect.

Of course, if one is facing a scenario with heavy enemy forces then keeping the OH-58 light and lasing for the AH-64 makes the most sense.

Context matters... I wonder what context would justify ATAS/Stinger?

The context of using a helicopter in a SOCOM operations where and when you never know what might happen.

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Coota0

Coota0

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3 hours ago, cordite said:

As in the bad guys, friendlies, or both?

Kiowas are scouts. The KW's weapons are for self defense. In a conventional fight this is particularly important, the KW scouts ahead, and sends back target information to artillery units, fixed-wing attack aircraft or attack helicopters. This is what is meant by having others use their weapons. In a COIN environment you try to do the same, but use your own weapons more often because you are supporting ground forces in an environment that is more permissive to an aircraft. 

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Coota0

Coota0

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On 1/13/2023 at 3:22 PM, tomcat_driver said:

Scout is not self defence. Scouts offensively fight for the intel. It shapes the battlefield and serves as the eyes and ears of the commander.

 

THe KW's organic weapons are for self defense. There are also defensive missions for a KW, Screening, Guarding and Covering are all defensive operations. 

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BaD CrC

BaD CrC

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On 1/13/2023 at 9:26 AM, cordite said:

As in the bad guys, friendlies, or both?

Friendlies. KW spots, Apache shoot. The two hellfires the KW is carrying are really for self defense or last resort, like an immediate threat to the KW itself or to immediate nearby ground forces, with no AH around to deal with it.


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Ramsay

Ramsay

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3 hours ago, Stratos said:

Seen this on a HIP channel, will we get the hability to unload the mast mounted sight?

Yes, IIRC it reflects a configuration used at Fort Rucker for training inc. autorotations, etc. (it's also faster/lighter without the MMS).


Edited by Ramsay
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Stratos

Stratos

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24 minutes ago, Ramsay said:

Yes, IIRC it reflects a configuration used at Fort Rucker for training inc. autorotations, etc. (it's also faster/lighter without the MMS).

 

And is still able to mount gun and rockets?

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

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Coota0

Coota0

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5 hours ago, Ramsay said:

Yes, IIRC it reflects a configuration used at Fort Rucker for training inc. autorotations, etc. (it's also faster/lighter without the MMS).

 

That is correct the MMS was removed for the contact and manual throttle phases of flight training. The skin with the orange doors and large white letters and numbers on the side are indicative of a Rucker paint scheme.

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