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What makes the F18 stand out to you


Jetliner

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Hey all, F16 addict here.  I own the F18 but aside from some very basic training I quickly gave up on it when I felt it was just really slow, sluggish, bled speed insanely fast for not much maneuverability and didnt offer anything extra that the F16 couldn't already do and in my opinion - do better.  I imagine there is something I just haven't found out yet since I have 10x the hours in the 16 than I do the 18, so I was wondering if anyone could explain to me what sets the F18 apart from other multirole fighters for them?

We can avoid carrier talk as thats an obvious one but besides carrier ops - why do any of you pick the 18 over something else?  I could use some motivation to try it out agian.

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Nothing, F/A-18C is a high value-for-money module and great for newcomer like me. Personally I see not much motive to get the Hornet when you have the Viper.

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58 minutes ago, Jetliner said:

didnt offer anything extra that the F16 couldn't already do and in my opinion - do better.

The F-16 does Anti-Ship better than the Hornet? Pls explain.

Better SA, internal jammer, more variety of weapons, can do proper missions without carrying 2 bags, better stand-off capability (SLAM-ER), better navigation. 

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1 hour ago, Jetliner said:

Hey all, F16 addict here.  I own the F18 but aside from some very basic training I quickly gave up on it when I felt it was just really slow, sluggish, bled speed insanely fast for not much maneuverability and didnt offer anything extra that the F16 couldn't already do and in my opinion - do better.  I imagine there is something I just haven't found out yet since I have 10x the hours in the 16 than I do the 18, so I was wondering if anyone could explain to me what sets the F18 apart from other multirole fighters for them?

We can avoid carrier talk as thats an obvious one but besides carrier ops - why do any of you pick the 18 over something else?  I could use some motivation to try it out agian.

Without getting into a wall of text, if you want motivation to fly the F-18 again, know that the F-18 is superior to the F-16 in nearly every single way, notable advantages to the F-16 being acceleration/top speed (which is mostly irrelevant unless you're doing drag races) and slightly better at SEAD/DEAD.

There is a lot of opinionated misinformation about the two aircraft, but if you want to start flying the F-18 again and put the hours in you won't be disappointed.


Edited by MARLAN_
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10 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

The F-16 does Anti-Ship better than the Hornet? Pls explain.

The entire post was meant to help me understand why I would want to get back into the 18 over the 16.  I wasnt saying the 16 WAS better I was saying I wanted to hear reasons why you 18 pilots feel its better so I can understand its role in todays battlefield.  

Anti-ship is one I didnt consider but in fairness I havent been in any missions where there are ships to begin with so that would explain why I didnt consider it.

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I got your post. Thats why i listed a few of those things at the end of my comment, where the Hornet is significant better than the F-16. I was just wondering about anti-ship since you said the Hornet does not offer anything the F-16 already can do better than the Hornet. Well you should realy consider doing anti-ship with the Hornet, as it is a lot of fun imo. Performing a coordinated Harpoon attack on a Kirov and sink this bastard together with a couple of friends is second to none. As Marlan already mentioned, the only things where the F-16 is realy better than the Hornet is acceleration/top speed (BVR) and SEAD/DEAD. Well.. and better HOTAS commands imo. But thats it. And if you are into cold war/80s scenarios, BVR is literally not existant with the F-16 as it cannot carry AIM-7 wich is why i'm not even considering touching the F-16 in cold war timeframe missions. I love the F-16, i realy do. Flew it for years in that other F-16 sim and also do own it in DCS, but love the Hornet even more tbh. In order to motivate yourself in getting back into the Hornet, maybe start the ME and create a stand-off mission with SLAM-ER and try the man-in-the-loop endgame aiming. It's great fun too and i'm pretty sure you'll love it.

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To note, top speed has very little to do with A/A.

The F18 is significantly better as an A/A platform.

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28 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

 the only things where the F-16 is really better than the Hornet is acceleration/top speed (BVR) 

... and if/when ordinance-overspeed limitations are implemented, the top speed advantage over the Hornet isn't necessarily a huge advantage. When the Hornet's radar bugs are ironed out (and there are quite a few the deeper you dig down into multi-bogey TWS engagements), it will edge closer to the Viper in BVR capability with the APG-73 being a slightly better radar than the -68. But the higher top speed of the Viper does give it's -120C's a good bit of kinetic energy advantage.

And then of course, there's the boat... 🙂

 


Edited by wilbur81

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2 hours ago, VFGiPJP said:

Nothing, F/A-18C is a high value-for-money module and great for newcomer like me. Personally I see not much motive to get the Hornet when you have the Viper.

Fair enough... but higher AoA manueverability, more weapons, an extra MFD, and carrier ops are not bad to have. 😉

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I have both and like the Hornet cockpit much better for ease of interface and info presentation ( 3 larger MFDs versus 2 smaller ones).  The Viper has a nice bubble canopy, feels like you are riding on top of the jet, and its a speedster, but the hornet is a workhorse.

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These comments are so interesting!!  I find myself liking the cockpit of the F16 a lot more, as well as the MFDs in the 16 more but again - I have very little time in the 18 still too so I cant wait to get into it more.  Ill admit I quickly got overwhelmed with the 3 screens for some reason and its hard to be in that cockpit with the big ol canopy bow for me.  But all these things are simple learning curves I just need to iron out with more hours.

 

2 hours ago, VpR81 said:

I got your post. Thats why i listed a few of those things at the end of my comment, where the Hornet is significant better than the F-16. I was just wondering about anti-ship since you said the Hornet does not offer anything the F-16 already can do better than the Hornet. Well you should realy consider doing anti-ship with the Hornet, as it is a lot of fun imo. Performing a coordinated Harpoon attack on a Kirov and sink this bastard together with a couple of friends is second to none. As Marlan already mentioned, the only things where the F-16 is realy better than the Hornet is acceleration/top speed (BVR) and SEAD/DEAD. Well.. and better HOTAS commands imo. But thats it. And if you are into cold war/80s scenarios, BVR is literally not existant with the F-16 as it cannot carry AIM-7 wich is why i'm not even considering touching the F-16 in cold war timeframe missions. I love the F-16, i realy do. Flew it for years in that other F-16 sim and also do own it in DCS, but love the Hornet even more tbh. In order to motivate yourself in getting back into the Hornet, maybe start the ME and create a stand-off mission with SLAM-ER and try the man-in-the-loop endgame aiming. It's great fun too and i'm pretty sure you'll love it.

Yeah I cant say I ever really thought about anti-ship!  I have never seen a mission with ship warfare being a factor so I will say Im not surprised I overlooked that.  I dont have any DCS friends to go after ships with but Ill learn it myself and see if I enjoy it as much as you say (I imagine I will)

I dont do a ton of air to air, but I do like how simple it feels in the 16.  The screens just seem more clear to me where the 18 seems to be really cluttered and hard to read sometimes.  Maybe thats why I am not a huge fan of the 18 as I am not much of an Air to Air guy. *shrug* (totally agree with the HOTAS commands comment though.)

Ill have to look up that Man in the loop mission youre talking about and give it a go.

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I prefer the man-machine interface of the Hornet hands-down, from HOTAS to DDI’s. The Viper’s cockpit looks and feels cool, but doesn’t work well for me.

The JHMCS implementation is better, IMO, in every way. The HSI/SA combo is faster (for me) and provides more info than the HSD - though I don’t know how complete the implementation of either of these is currently. 
 

The Hornet’s AoA capability is both a powerful weapon and an alluring pitfall; the ability to point the nose and drag an opponent into a slow fight is scary when properly executed. Simultaneously, when abused or overused the AoA and corresponding bleeding of energy can be very dangerous to the Hornet driver. 
 

I prefer attack missions (off of a carrier, but I’m willing to forgo that for this conversation) but maintain enough skill to tangle with anything DCS currently offers in a BFM scenario. BVR is my weakest point, but also the one that I practice and enjoy the least. The Hornet’s radar quirks make it significantly more challenging in multi-threat BVR engagements and paired with less kinetic energy I do believe the Viper has an edge in BVR. That said, the datalink and RWR displays (SA, JHMCS) give incredible situational awareness when engaged in any AA arena. 


I firmly believe the array of weapons available to the Hornet are also superior, to the point that I get irritable in the Viper when loading/rearming. I can rarely accomplish quite what I want to, or end up loading the jet down and spoiling any energy advantage. I would love the dual maverick ejector racks on the Hornet, but that’s the only edge for the Viper (for me). 

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Avionics are better, weapons are better (aside from 105s), fuel efficiency is better, faster 98% of the time, better FLIR, internal jammer, much better SA, better HOTAS, etc. (much better, fight me)

Overall in DCS the Hornet is quite a bit better, but once the Hornet is complete, the F-16 will feel absolutely useless by comparison. It's like no competition outside of DEAD.

For A/G combat, the 16 is slower, more sluggish, lacks SA, short on station time, lacks a G-limiter etc. 

Once the Hornet is fixed and MSI sensor fusion works, the F/A-18 has capabilities the F-16 couldn't even dream of. For one, as standard since 99', the Datalink, RWR, ASPJ, RADAR, ATFLIR, CIT (IFF), and HARM all work to together to find, track, and identify air targets.

MIG notches you at 40nm? Only thing you see different is the radar contribution circle on he HAFU flash and disappear. The HAFU as a whole would still be the L+S tracked by datalink and the FLIR.

That's to be later though. Best we can do in DCS is slave the FLIR to a datalink track. Some stuff works decently with Angle Only Tracks for Jamming tracks.

The way I see it. 16 does basically nothing better and is quite a shocking disappointment. There isn't even a map....

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In terms of the sim, the 18 can start a mission from any airport, and any spot on the water you can put a carrier. Which gives a little more replayability.

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Carrier ops, better ergonomics, more varied loadout and capabilities, carrier ops, better user interface, more capable sensorics with better usability, carrier ops - everything the F-18 has in the cockpit feels like someone at MDD looked at the F-16 and made a better version of it.

(And the Hornet just looks SO MUCH better)


Edited by Shimmergloom667
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F-16 is a different platform but as to why the F-18c stands our for me.

 

IS THE F-18'S HIGH AOA CHARACTERISTICS DUE TO ITS HIGH MANEUVERABILITY THRUST TO WEIGHT RATIO.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by WRAITH

 

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I dunno but some argue the F-16 has better UI, I forgot which thread it was.

Since the OG poster has the Viper first, it means something special personally I think cause I guess most newbies like me would start with the Hornet.

Anyway in the end, we are going to "buy all the modules sooner or later" (tm), aren't we?

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Yep same here - carrier ops.

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10小时前,Hulkbust44说:

Overall in DCS the Hornet is quite a bit better, but once the Hornet is complete, the F-16 will feel absolutely useless by comparison. 

Although I prefer hornet, but for now, the F16's SEAD capabilities are something I'm envious of
So don't be too absolute

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4 hours ago, MrReynolds said:

For me, why buy the Viper?  The triple rack of -65s I'm jealous of!

Except a TER is not used in RL as the 3rd inboard Rifle burns the rear hor stabs.

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14 hours ago, MARLAN_ said:

To note, top speed has very little to do with A/A.

The F18 is significantly better as an A/A platform.

I am DCS F18 flyer but I am not sure about this comment. High speed and high altitute makes a big difference in BVR. F16 can fire earlier and can escape also easier from incoming missiles. Ofcourse the sustainability of the BVR is not just making the first shot but still it gives initial advantage to F16

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 In VR it’s a bit easier on the eyes.

Carrier Ops with the Super Carrier are great, the deck crew guiding you to the cat makes the world feel more real.

If you buy the MFDs from Thrustmaster you get to press more buttons, and who doesn’t like pressing buttons?

Landing it on a runway is bloody easy!😁

SA and JHMCS seem more fleshed out in the Hornet.

I think for me it really just came down to the fact it was the first multi role jet and therefore time spent in it is why it now feels like home. If the F16 had come out first it deffo would be the other way round (always loved the Viper, never was a big fan of the Hornet. That’s changed ofc, big Hornet fan now)

 

 

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