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What makes the F18 stand out to you


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49 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Landing it on a runway is bloody easy!😁

 

Yep, thats because you can land a Hornet hard, no need to flare, which also means landing a Hornet can hide some sins. 😛

Flare to land = squat to pee.

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22 hours ago, MARLAN_ said:

To note, top speed has very little to do with A/A.

The F18 is significantly better as an A/A platform.

A bit confused now. In BVR, higher speed should be an advantage i guess. But in general i agree with the Hornet beeing the better A/A platform overall.

 

20 hours ago, Jetliner said:

Ill have to look up that Man in the loop mission youre talking about and give it a go.

That's not a specific mission. It's a feature of the SLAM / SLAM-ER missile combined with the D/L pod, so you can control the missile in the terminal phase and steer it into a target by yourself. And this while beeing 150+ miles away from the target. Very satisfying and a lot of fun imo. 

 


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17 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

A bit confused now. In BVR, higher speed should be an advantage i guess. But in general i agree with the Hornet beeing the better A/A platform overall.

It most definitely is. Higher speed and higher altitude gives that missile a definite advantage. A Mach 1.7 platform launch at 45K feet is giving it's missile better performance than the Mach 1.3 jet at 35K feet who launches at the same time.

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I'll take the OP's question as why fly the FA18 when you have the F16, as opposed to the pro's and con's for each or which is 'better'. 

So it really comes down to what gives you the enjoyment when flying in DCS rather than the actual 'what is the aircraft better at'?

The OP wrote:

On 3/7/2022 at 8:43 AM, Jetliner said:

I own the F18 but aside from some very basic training I quickly gave up on it when I felt it was just really slow, sluggish, bled speed insanely fast for not much maneuverability and didnt offer anything extra that the F16 couldn't already do and in my opinion - do better.  

If it's about speed, and competition / air kills on multiplayer servers, then maybe the F16 is the better option as I have found I didn't find much of an advantage for the FA18, with maybe an exception that the FA18 capable of carrying 10 AIM-120's plus a pair of 9X's. (But that could also be me and poor tactics too) 😉

However on the other hand, if you're like me - I get modules for the variety, for the differences that I can enjoy and for personal enjoyment, not as much for competition. The F/A-18 has a different refueling task (allows me to tank at the same time with a friend/wingman), has different take off and landing options (Sea ops), has good anti-ship and stand off weapons (SLAM-ER), better range, and IMO is the best aircraft in the whole sim for precise close formation flying. Mastering landing on a carrier is something I enjoy, and a great way to finish off an evening's flight. I enjoy high bank high alpha's at 100 feet off the ground, challenging myself to see how much I can do without stalling her, and flying her in ACM. The 'spin recovery' switch changes it in to a new aircraft, and in general she's just an absolute delight to fly and handle. 

I own both aircraft. I admit - I tend to fly the F16 when I need to be more effective in combat, to be more effective with SEAD, and of course 105's are a blast (excuse the pun), but the truth of the matter is I tend to choose to fly the FA18 more out of sheer enjoyment it gives me. I've owned the FA18 much longer than the F16 and it hasn't grown old on me. Co-op missions with a number of friends - I'd lean to the F/A-18 every time. I just wish we had the super-hornet so it could be a little more effective in MP.

Mind you - I fly helicopters (and die a lot too), and again for the same reason - I enjoy the flight characteristics and the variety of options  available - not because I'm the most effective pilot at the job. 


Edited by Dangerzone
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For example, if you launch at M1.1 versus launching at M0.9 (35K 20d Loft), the AMRAAM will accelerate to M3.8 versus M3.6 (there's of course more to this, like drag)

The 20% extra launch velocity equates to about 5% extra missile velocity. As a different example, if you decided to shoot a rifle while standing still, or while sprinting, how much do you think that will affect the bullet's range? What about while shooting in a speeding car?

A Viper isn't going to be able to take advantage of the 5% further shot range if their radar is 10% lower range. Even if it could, 5% range is barely noticeable, any sensible BVR timeline factors in some "slop". (and the Viper radar is still significantly over tuned)

In addition to a slew other other factors such as fuel, less weapons, less SA, etc., and when/if ED ever properly implements F-18 features the gap will be even wider.

"go fast" is hardly the most important factor to the BVR arena, especially if simulating realistic fights as opposed to the "airquake" arenas where you take off/shoot all your missiles and RTB in 15 minutes (and even then, I'd rather have a Hornet)

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On 3/7/2022 at 10:13 AM, Digitalvole said:

I think for me it really just came down to the fact it was the first multi role jet and therefore time spent in it is why it now feels like home. If the F16 had come out first it deffo would be the other way round (always loved the Viper, never was a big fan of the Hornet. That’s changed ofc, big Hornet fan now)

I could have wrote this post word-for-word. The Viper was always my favorite but the Hornet came out first. When it came out I figured I’d buy it and start learning it and that would make the Viper easier to learn once it came out. But then when it came out it was so incomplete that I figured I’d wait until it was mostly finished, but at some point I realized my heart had been stolen by the Hornet. I’ll eventually learn the Viper but I don’t know if I can ever give up the Hornet’s nose authority. You can practically point its nose anywhere. And yeah, the three larger MFD’s vs. the two smaller ones are nice to have. 

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I feel the Viper is too nimble, quick and impossible to land (for me :)).. So have always loved that the Hornet i can just slam it to the ground without an issue, also always loved the design and look of the Hornet, only the Super Hornet and Strike Eagle i find more cool looking..!

The Hornets HOTAS and system integration feels more natural learning than the Viper (but guess this is properly very subjective). I love precision strike and bombing mission with the Hornet, where if i want to do CAS i prefer the Harrier... But loading up the Hornet with JDAMs and then a low fly in before getting up and bombing is such a sweet feeling, and then flying home and land on the Carrier.

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For me personally, there are two things that stand out. One positive, one negative.

1. A wealth of available weaponry and enough stations to rack them on

2. Convoluted systems logic

Concrete examples for point #2:

To change the laser code in the Hornet, you have to turn on the TPOD, select A/G mode, arm the LTD/R switch, box UFC on the FLIR DDI display, colonize LTDC on the UFC, then enter the code.

In the Viper you punch LIST, 0, 5, enter the code. Done.

To arm bombs in the Hornet, you have to call up the SMS page and set the MFUZ and EFUZ. 

To arm bombs in the Viper, you have to do....nothing. Punch AG master mode and you're ready to rock.  

Don't get me started on HARM codes......


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1 hour ago, Nealius said:

For me personally, there are two things that stand out. One positive, one negative.

1. A wealth of available weaponry and enough stations to rack them on

2. Convoluted systems logic

Concrete examples for point #2:

To change the laser code in the Hornet, you have to turn on the TPOD, select A/G mode, arm the LTD/R switch, box UFC on the FLIR DDI display, colonize LTDC on the UFC, then enter the code.

In the Viper you punch LIST, 0, 5, enter the code. Done.

To arm bombs in the Hornet, you have to call up the SMS page and set the MFUZ and EFUZ. 

To arm bombs in the Viper, you have to do....nothing. Punch AG master mode and you're ready to rock.  

Don't get me started on HARM codes......

 

In DCS terms, most of these ‘convolutions’ are less about the clunky design of the system, and rather about missing a data cartridge function which would automate this. But you’re right, there are a few things that we’ll have to keep doing ’the hard way’ until DCS can implement the DTC.

 

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On 3/7/2022 at 11:46 AM, MrReynolds said:

Avoiding "carrier talk".

...................but for me, that's the BIGGY! 🤪

For me, why buy the Viper?  The triple rack of -65s I'm jealous of!

Same here carrier ops, plus the AAR, we put the thing in the hole, rather than be the hole in Viper.

I would love to see triple racks though. 

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On 3/7/2022 at 9:00 AM, FrostLaufeyson said:

Although I prefer hornet, but for now, the F16's SEAD capabilities are something I'm envious of
So don't be too absolute

Using a HARM as a poor man’s HTS is pretty effective as well. I was excited for the HTS on release as I love SEAD but wandered back to the Hornet in short order. 

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18 hours ago, Bedouin said:

 only the Super Hornet and Strike Eagle i find more cool looking..!

 

Blasphemy! The Fat-Hornet and the Family-Model-Mudhen have nothing on the Legacy in terms of looks. 🙂

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I don't have the DCS Viper yet and know the F-16 only from several books, videos and a handful hours in that other Viper sim. But I will buy it, when full released, because it's superior in BVR (due to speed, which is a factor in so many ways in BVR)

In SEAD/DEAD I don't know ... yes, the Viper has the HTS, but the Hornet will (hopefully) have the ADM-141 TALD. So, both have their goods in SEAD.

Why the Hornet? I like the SA in general. For the whole mission, for assets and targets, for my flight while doing BVR tactics. I have all the SA, that I need for doing this. It has a wide range of weapons, not only for for SEAD (not only the HARM, also the AGM-154 A AND C), the SLAM-ER and Harpoon for OCA and Anti-Ship (which can also be a SEAD mission), internal jammer and the possibility to switch that fast between A/G and A/A. I like the cockpit design and features of the DLC.

Yeah, it's slow and flying at 40.000 feet isn't a good idea (compared to the Eagle for example), but you're fine between 20.000 and 32.000 ft., it climbs a little bit faster than the Mirage 2000 (back in 2016/2017 IIRC) and you can easily travel with M 0.8 to 0.9. You can refuel 2 ships at once at the tanker, compared to one for Air Force fighter.

And at least, as you mentioned ... yes, you have Carrier Ops, which is not only nice to have and not possible with the Viper, but adds so more things related to mission design.

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I have both, but spend significantly more time in the Viper.  Every time I fire up the Hornet, I think to myself, this is actually an awesome aircraft, why don't I fly it more?  And then it goes away and I go back to the Viper.  I'm not sure why, I think it is simply that I don't have any emotional attachment to the Hornet.  Growing up I spent hours on Falcon 3.0.  The Viper was a regular on the UK airshow circuit, whereas I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a Hornet in the flesh (and non of those as a kid in the 80's/90's).  This means that for me, while I appreciate and enjoy the Hornet, I will 9 times out of 10 go for the Viper., regardless of on-paper comparisons.  The beauty of DCS is that we can just change airframes on a day-by-day or even hour-by-hour basis, without the real world limitations of requalifying etc.  Even switching between rotary and fixed-wing, piston or jet.  I'm sure we all have our favourites but don't limit yourself, it shouldn't just be about flying the 'best' aircraft, its about different experiences.

 

Oh, and squats to pee up top ^^^ - If you are a genuine carrier qualified fighter pilot then you get to say stuff like that, otherwise it comes across a little walty.  Don't kid yourself that competency with a game puts you on a par with the guys doing it for real.  (I know you are probably just joking, but its laughable that simmers who have gone through no form of selection claim to be better than another type of simmer who has chosen to fly a different platform.  A MSFS 747 pilot is not more professional than a MSFS cub pilot, they are still just playing a game). @Steel Jaw

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Love both, I found both of them fantastic! Viper is the plane I flown most in my virtual pilot career (started in 1989 with F-16 Combat pilot). However, in DCS I currently have 150h on the bug and 50h on the Viper.

AMT the bug is the most complete in both AA and AG roles, can carry more and wider variety weapons and can do Carrier and Naval operations, which open up to an huge set of possibilities that the Viper does not have.

Also, the bugs is easier to fly and its avionic system is much more modern that the viper one (less analogue gauges, all in MFDs).


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The Hornet is more comfortable to fly with a heavy AG loadout. It's a larger plane so it's less bogged down by heavy weapons, and the focus on low speed/high alpha performance is nice to have when maneuvering low and slow. Then there is also the naval aspect which the F-16 can't match. The Hornet can operate from carriers and has many more options for engaging ships. In air to air the F-16 may be stronger in general with its better performance, but sometimes it's nice to fly something different and rely on different tactics. If you do manage to get past BVR, it's a lot of fun to have nearly infinite nose pointing ability. The Hornet can also carry Sparrows. They have no advantage over the AIM-120, but they do give you more variety in your missions.

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On 3/13/2022 at 4:02 AM, Exorcet said:

The Hornet can also carry Sparrows.

AKA the Great White Hope.  SARH garbage in a BVR fight.  No reason whatsoever to lug these overweight rocks into battle.

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To me the Hornet is a more stable bomb truck
Especially JSOW-C
Landing on a boat is unreal and a challenge
I like the viper but if I want air to ground the Hornet is my plane


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The Hornet is more comfortable to fly with a heavy AG loadout. It's a larger plane so it's less bogged down by heavy weapons, and the focus on low speed/high alpha performance is nice to have when maneuvering low and slow. Then there is also the naval aspect which the F-16 can't match. The Hornet can operate from carriers and has many more options for engaging ships. In air to air the F-16 may be stronger in general with its better performance, but sometimes it's nice to fly something different and rely on different tactics. If you do manage to get past BVR, it's a lot of fun to have nearly infinite nose pointing ability. The Hornet can also carry Sparrows. They have no advantage over the AIM-120, but they do give you more variety in your missions.
If ED decides to fix our Hornet the F-16 is cannon fodder by comparison. Nothing it can do in A/A.

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My opinion, always referring to the models in the dcs,

is that for me the hornet is much more beautiful aircraft has a better variety of weapons and the ability to carry more weapons, for the same flight-combat time is enough in an external fuel tank in relation with the viper that needs three.

Also in closed air combat it is superior to the viper.

It can take off from an aircraft carrier which is something very attractive.

However, when I play BVR eight out of ten times I would prefer to do it with an F-16 because

A) it is faster and more flexible than the hornet, something important to get closer to the enemy and to go back quickly avoiding his own. rocket and

B) is much faster and simpler the whole process on the radar in targeting the lock and even in that you do not require to leave the lever and the stick from your hands to press any button on the mfd's

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My opinion, always referring to the models in the dcs,
is that for me the hornet is much more beautiful aircraft has a better variety of weapons and the ability to carry more weapons, for the same flight-combat time is enough in an external fuel tank in relation with the viper that needs three.
Also in closed air combat it is superior to the viper.
It can take off from an aircraft carrier which is something very attractive.
However, when I play BVR eight out of ten times I would prefer to do it with an F-16 because
A) it is faster and more flexible than the hornet, something important to get closer to the enemy and to go back quickly avoiding his own. rocket and
B) is much faster and simpler the whole process on the radar in targeting the lock and even in that you do not require to leave the lever and the stick from your hands to press any button on the mfd's


I hope they can fix the Hornet this year. F-16 in BVR should be nothing by comparison...

Also in A/A if you are pressing on the DDIs you're doing it wrong.

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On 3/18/2022 at 12:36 AM, Gripes323 said:

Anyone checked nose authority after the latest update? Slow speed, high alpha, etc. :grin:

I haven't had much time in the hornet since the patch but nothing was obviously different (aside from my VR performance increasing and the flir polarity issue)...

 

What did you notice in regards to high alpha, slow speed flight?

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