The Cobra proposal...

[Tank50us]

This post is gonna be a mix of wishlist, and idea dump, but it is something that I think warrants proper discussion.

So, with the Apache around the corner, I think it's safe to say that there are some in the community that would love to see the other American Attack Helicopter, the AH-1 Cobra. And that of course brings up the big question: Which Cobra? I say this, because the Cobra, a 1960s design, has seen service with multiple nations, and has been used for decades by the US Military. The sheer number of variants make proper implementation difficult, but not impossible.

Personally, if it were up to me, and I was leading a team to make the Cobra a DCS Module, and I had obtained the licenses from Bell, this is the implementation path that I would take:

• The first helicopter out the door would be the AH-1G, the first production version of the Cobra. This version would have a bare bones basic AI gunner, but since the only weapons available are the miniguns, 40mm grenade launcher, or 20mm rotary cannon (some were sent to Vietnam for field testing and evaluation, but were standard on all variants post G), it wouldn't need a hugely complex AI to work the gun. You'd also have gun and rocket pods that can be mounted to the wings, but otherwise it's actual capabilities aren't far off from the Huey (which mimics real life since the Cobra was based on the Huey to save time and money during development).
  • The reason this would be out the door first is because the idea is to get the Cobra in the hands of players as soon as possible, so that bugs can be found and squashed with the damage model and flight model as soon as possible. After all, many of the Cobras share a similar physical profile, with most of the major differences being engine upgrades over the Cobras service life, as well as cockpit upgrades.
• The second out the door would be the AH-1Q, the production model that would be equipped with the 20mm cannon as standard, and the sights needed to use the TOW missile system. Along with this, you'd get some of the notable export models, like the ones used by the JSDF. And of course, you'd also get a proper AI buddy to operate the weapon systems or fly the helicopter.
• Finally, we get to the twin-engined versions, namely the AH-1J, which is the first production twin-engined Cobra, and would, again, be brought in mostly for the ability to find and squash damage model and flight model bugs, but also to give players a twin-engined Cobra ASAP. Following this, the AH-1W would be introduced, bringing with it the ability to use Hellfires, and finally, if the company allows. the AH-1Z would be brought in as the final version to be added.

Again, this is if it were up to me. But as you can see, it'd be a fully comprehensive suite of Cobras covering decades of the AH-1s time in service. What do you guys think? Would you get a Cobra module if it started off at the most bare-bones version? Or would you rather not touch the module unless a specific version is introduced? Comment below.

[Lurker]

5 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

This post is gonna be a mix of wishlist, and idea dump, but it is something that I think warrants proper discussion.

So, with the Apache around the corner, I think it's safe to say that there are some in the community that would love to see the other American Attack Helicopter, the AH-1 Cobra. And that of course brings up the big question: Which Cobra? I say this, because the Cobra, a 1960s design, has seen service with multiple nations, and has been used for decades by the US Military. The sheer number of variants make proper implementation difficult, but not impossible.

Personally, if it were up to me, and I was leading a team to make the Cobra a DCS Module, and I had obtained the licenses from Bell, this is the implementation path that I would take:

• The first helicopter out the door would be the AH-1G, the first production version of the Cobra. This version would have a bare bones basic AI gunner, but since the only weapons available are the miniguns, 40mm grenade launcher, or 20mm rotary cannon (some were sent to Vietnam for field testing and evaluation, but were standard on all variants post G), it wouldn't need a hugely complex AI to work the gun. You'd also have gun and rocket pods that can be mounted to the wings, but otherwise it's actual capabilities aren't far off from the Huey (which mimics real life since the Cobra was based on the Huey to save time and money during development).
  • The reason this would be out the door first is because the idea is to get the Cobra in the hands of players as soon as possible, so that bugs can be found and squashed with the damage model and flight model as soon as possible. After all, many of the Cobras share a similar physical profile, with most of the major differences being engine upgrades over the Cobras service life, as well as cockpit upgrades.
• The second out the door would be the AH-1Q, the production model that would be equipped with the 20mm cannon as standard, and the sights needed to use the TOW missile system. Along with this, you'd get some of the notable export models, like the ones used by the JSDF. And of course, you'd also get a proper AI buddy to operate the weapon systems or fly the helicopter.
• Finally, we get to the twin-engined versions, namely the AH-1J, which is the first production twin-engined Cobra, and would, again, be brought in mostly for the ability to find and squash damage model and flight model bugs, but also to give players a twin-engined Cobra ASAP. Following this, the AH-1W would be introduced, bringing with it the ability to use Hellfires, and finally, if the company allows. the AH-1Z would be brought in as the final version to be added.

Again, this is if it were up to me. But as you can see, it'd be a fully comprehensive suite of Cobras covering decades of the AH-1s time in service. What do you guys think? Would you get a Cobra module if it started off at the most bare-bones version? Or would you rather not touch the module unless a specific version is introduced? Comment below.

 

I think if the Cobra would ever be developed as a DCS module it's probably realistic to expect only a single version to be produced and developed. In that scenario the most popular version would probably be one of the twin engined Super-Cobra versions still in service with the US Marine corps, and as a naval variant it would probably be quite popular. IF the proper licenses and permissions could be obtained, that is. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Lurker

[Mr_sukebe]

I did think that ED had previously mentioned that the Cobra would sometime be coming to DCS

[Hiob]

I won't disregard any helicopter (or any new aircraft tbh), but since we have the Huey, soon the Apache and couple of russian Helicopters, I'd rather vote for something like the Eurocopter Tiger (Ka-52 being of the table atm)....

The Cobra is kind of a mix between the Huey and the Apache - therefore the niche between the niches (at least that is my train of thoughts)...

[Evoman]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

I think if the Cobra would ever be developed as a DCS module it's probably realistic to expect only a single version to be produced and developed. In that scenario the most popular version would probably be one of the twin engined Super-Cobra versions still in service with the US Marine corps, and as a naval variant it would probably be quite popular. IF the proper licenses and permissions could be obtained, that is. 

 

I agree that the last Super Cobra would be popular but I also  think that a Vietnam era AH-1G Cobra would also be very popular with the community fans of that conflict.

 

 

[Evoman]

17 minutes ago, Hiob said:

I won't disregard any helicopter (or any new aircraft tbh), but since we have the Huey, soon the Apache and couple of russian Helicopters, I'd rather vote for something like the Eurocopter Tiger (Ka-52 being of the table atm)....

The Cobra is kind of a mix between the Huey and the Apache - therefore the niche between the niches (at least that is my train of thoughts)...

I am for doing other helicopters too but it all comes down to which ones would actually be feasible to develop for which the all the required data and licenses can be obtained.

[Hiob]

2 minutes ago, Evoman said:

I am for doing other helicopters too but it all comes down to which ones would actually be feasible to develop for which the all the required data and licenses can be obtained.

100% agreed. And I don't know how the EU handles such subjects. I somehow assumed, that it would be possible because the Tiger is probably not more classified than the Typhoon.

But those are nothing than hopes and wishful thinking. As I said, I would also very much appreciate the Cobra!

[Northstar98]

Personally, I'm in favour of a U.S. Army AH-1, to go with the UH-1H.

Right now, the UH-1H doesn't have a contemporary attack counterpart, unlike the Mi-24P and the Mi-8MTV-2 (which are both from the 80s, the former being mid 80s (though our one doesn't have L-116V), and the latter being from the late 80s); a 70s AH-1G, would suit it very well.

Similarly though, the AH-64D doesn't have a contemporary transport/utility helicopter, which would be an early 2000s UH-60L.

[WRAITH]

Similar to that I guess I would like if ever the ARH TIGER -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WinterH]

I firmly believe that 80s or 90s AH-1F and/or AH-1W would be the best fit to get.

I'd be really sad if it would be AH-1Z, 2010s or later W, or earlier than F. For the modern ones, AH-64D really scratches that modern American attack helo itch. Older ones on the other hand, are really quite limited and don't have the right environment to fit yet.

Moreover, two variants I've proposed can also be a decent representative of Cobra's international service, as P/F and W were operated, or is still operational in quite a few nations.

They could also nicely complement UH-1H, and would be the almost exactly right counterpart to Mi-24P.

Once either of these two is available, I'd welcome additional Cobras from either before or after this period.

[FlankerKiller]

8 hours ago, WinterH said:

I firmly believe that 80s or 90s AH-1F and/or AH-1W would be the best fit to get.

I'd be really sad if it would be AH-1Z, 2010s or later W, or earlier than F. For the modern ones, AH-64D really scratches that modern American attack helo itch. Older ones on the other hand, are really quite limited and don't have the right environment to fit yet.

Moreover, two variants I've proposed can also be a decent representative of Cobra's international service, as P/F and W were operated, or is still operational in quite a few nations.

They could also nicely complement UH-1H, and would be the almost exactly right counterpart to Mi-24P.

Once either of these two is available, I'd welcome additional Cobras from either before or after this period.

I couldn't agree more. They would also fit well with the F-14A, and the coming A-7E, and A-6. It would really round out that late cold War U.S. navy that's shaping up. Like you mentioned it would be a proper advisory to the Hind as well. All in all it would be fun. Here's hoping. 

[Hinkey]

15 hours ago, WinterH said:

I firmly believe that 80s or 90s AH-1F and/or AH-1W would be the best fit to get.

Hoping they go for the AH-1W. The Army is now well represented with the UH-1H and Apache. It would be fun to able to fly Marine Cobra's off the Tarawa alongside the Harrier.

[NeedzWD40]

Picking nits, but:

The first standardized US Army Cobra with the M197 would've been the AH-1E. The AH-1Q introduced the HSS, TSU, and TOW capability.

The G model has some variations as well, such as the tail rotor placement, landing light placement, M28 turret (first variants had only single minigun/grenade launcher), and other superficial differences.

That out of the way, I would do an AH-1J first. This could be the first USMC variations, followed by the variations made for Iran (different pantographic sight, some variations in cooling intakes). The International version in particular would offer HSS, TSU, and TOW capability on an otherwise stock AH-1J. This would give something for the Iranian side to operate while also throwing a bone to some western uses (South Korea operated a small number of Internationals). The AH-1J USMC version could also be upgraded in an 80s variation, with two countermeasure buckets, APR-39, ALQ-144, and Sidewinder + Sidearm capability (yes, this was a thing for the J series). Said version saw limited action in Desert Storm before being retired.

This would be followed by an AH-1T, which is in essence an International with USMC specific upgrades. The first batches of T models actually had slick noses because the USMC saw the performance and altered the J production contract to the T; there's no real reason to simulate this, of course.

From here is where I would alter plans a bit: I'd shift over to an AH-1F. This would introduce a number of incremental improvements over the T, such as the LST and HUD, while checking the block for an 80s era, more numerous US Army Cobra. Said variant could also be brought up to heel with a modernized export variant with an EGI, AVR-2, and FLIR.

From there, the AH-1W in pre and post ODS variants would be the next ones, with the penultimate being a OIF era version with MLWS. I would stop at ~2005 here; no offense to those who love the latest and greatest, but trying to go more modern than the early 00s seems to be very troublesome.

I should add that on this list should also be a proper 80s era UH-1H with ASE, USMC UH-1Ns over the years, CH-46s, and CH-53s. But that's just stretch goals.

[upyr1]

I really want a vietnam era cobra

[Phoschek]

ED has already said they plan on building an older model Cobra, but personally, I’d rather see an AH-1W. 

[SkateZilla]

4 Rotor Dual Engine at least, 

[Hammer1-1]

Ahh the Cobra thread...the one project placed on hold indefinitely it seems. At last discussion it was an AH-1S/W variant IIRC because the AH-1G wasnt as nearly wanted as the newer variant. Was announced about the same time the F-5 rolled out and was supposed to be the next Belsimtek module, but never materialized. I want my Cobra. Hopefully it comes next because the Whiskey shares many of the same features the AH-64D and the UH-1H. Would be awesome if we could get a Zulu............

Edited March 10, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[WinterH]

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

4 Rotor Dual Engine at least, 

Hopefully not, that'd be just "Apache-ish, but takes off from a boat".

At least not as the first or only variant.

I'd also be happy to see a late W or Z after we get a late Cold War or ODS era F or W, as they would add more to DCS.

[MrSmithCZ]

I personaly would like to see AH-1Z with an UH-1Y by its side and both being controllable for players. As both helicopters are "new and old" at the same time. By that I mean, that they are the newest versions of the H-1 platform but are also old enough to be added to the DCS World due to the year of being introduced to the combat units.

[Wychmaster]

Seeing that we will get multiple variants of the F-4, I think it is reasonable to believe that we might see different Cobra variants too. Maybe a Vietnam era version and a modern one. I mean, my impression is that the community is roughly split into half with one part favoring an older model while the other part wants a modern version. So instead of disappointing one side, just please both. As for building helicopters, building upon an existing codebase to create a second version should be less work than creating a whole new module

 

 

[FlankerKiller]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:46 AM, upyr1 said:

I really want a vietnam era cobra

Why? There is only one Vietnam asset in game so far. 

[FlankerKiller]

6 hours ago, Wychmaster said:

Seeing that we will get multiple variants of the F-4, I think it is reasonable to believe that we might see different Cobra variants too. Maybe a Vietnam era version and a modern one. I mean, my impression is that the community is roughly split into half with one part favoring an older model while the other part wants a modern version. So instead of disappointing one side, just please both. As for building helicopters, building upon an existing codebase to create a second version should be less work than creating a whole new module

 

 

I would say maybe a late Cold War, maybe Desert Storm, and an OIF version. To properly do it you would have to do four  aircraft there. So maybe a Desert Storm Army version and an OIF Marine versions. Problem there is that it really two separate aircraft. If they do decide to finish out Belsimtk's lineup then I would say do the Marine Super Cobras. A Desert Storm,  and OIF. I keep using Desert Storm because it would go so well with so many other assets that are in game or are coming. Same For OIF. And I want to go hunting with sidearms. 

[Gunnar81]

I think it would be a bit of a waste of piggybacking on some of the Apache development if they don't go with the Whiskey Cobra. The hellfire, traversing cannon, FLIR systems and RWR all have a bit of basic commonality. That and with the UH-1H already being a mature module they should be able to pull a little from 'A' and a little from 'B' to get a good jump start on the AH-1W.

[upyr1]

38 minutes ago, FlankerKiller said:

Why? There is only one Vietnam asset in game so far. 

I want more Vietnam era assets, that's why. 

[Hammer1-1]

1 hour ago, FlankerKiller said:

Why? There is only one Vietnam asset in game so far. 

Technically no, not really. Mig-15, Mig-21, UH-1H, F-5E, F-4E coming, probably a few others I cant think off top of my head.