Mi-24P autopilot and weapons guides, + Aerodynamics

[AeriaGloria]

   Hello, I have done a lot of experimentation and searching through information to find data on the autopilot system and weapon aiming peculiarities that are not covered in either the quick start guide, chucks guide, or the Russian quick start guide.

Autopilot guide consists of limits of all the autopilot functions, and ways to adjust set attitude and their pros and cons. Including all causes of autopilot channel movement, as well as my personal tips and techniques for getting the most out of it. This includes how the Yaw channel is simulated in DCS, and ways to get around it to fly as well as possible
 

The weapons guide has sections on the auto CCIP sight and its limits that hurt it accuracy and how to get around said limits. As well as how to best utilize manual aiming for best accuracy. The data on specific munitions in DCS. The different ATGMs their statistics and reasons to use. My personal way to most accurately use bombs without a CPG. And how to best reach the limits of maneuverability in combat. Tables and payload limitations. 

Each guide is about 40 pages long
 

With this information I hope will help you employ Mi-24 to its utmost effectiveness. If there are any errors please point them out so I may correct them

EDIT 11/28/23: I have learned many things lately that render some material here outdated. I have fixed most things. I have added a new “BOMB LOFTING” section for weapons guide, and more information on AP control law specifications. 
 

NEW: I have also added my translation of the aerodynamics manual. It includes my interpretations of each graphs and colorizations to aid understanding of it. 

Weapons guide 6.0: New bomb lofting section! 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m3TsRS1Er4C1kRfQgd42FQ682ArYSwmU/view?usp=drivesdk

Autopilot guide 7.0:    

https://drive.google.com/file/d/157HdRauUQO8rUJypKMnWrOktTjWqyMBE/view?usp=drivesdk
 
Aerodynamic Section Translation:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bzbic9ySD3y86l3IOolTHSrHHycYkLBc/view?usp=drivesdk

Edited December 25, 2023 by AeriaGloria

[Gunnar81]

Way cool! Thanks for the effort.

[Devrim]

Thanks a lot man!

[molevitch]

Really useful and very well explained! Thank you.

[AeriaGloria]

12 hours ago, molevitch said:

Really useful and very well explained! Thank you.

I appreciate it, thank you. I wanted to put everything I’ve learned down on paper so others don’t have to struggle as much as I did. There is enough things the Mi-24 makes difficult for you 

[AeriaGloria]

I updated my guides, there was a question about the effectiveness of the route autopilot on a recent locked thread. 

The route autopilot is highly influenced by the current roll trim and the fact that the autopilot only has 18% authority. So assuming your in a mission with no wind and thus no drift for the route autopilot to correct, if your heading is not correct it is becuase it does not have the authority to roll you towards the selected heading.

You can see this happen with either the R control + enter menu and looking at the roll channel, if it is deflected all the way, it is trying to roll you towards the heading but it’s 18% authority isn’t enough to fight your current roll trim enough. You can “help” it by either rolling manually or trimming in the direction the roll autopilot is trying to roll you, then it will start to work perfectly. It does not use the yaw autopilot at all, route AP only uses roll channel. 
 

If you don’t want to use the R control + enter menu, look at the AP displacement gauge windows by your left knee at the bottom of the AP panel, you may have to lean over or remove the seat with backspace. Unlike the R control + enter menu the roll channel nuetral position is vertical instead of horizontal, if on the physical panel the roll channel spindle is to the left of center, it is trying to roll you left but unable to becuase of the afore mentioned trim and it’s 18% authority, just move stick or trim in direction the line on the gauge has moved towards.

In addition, the route auto pilot is programmed to not roll you farther then 15 degrees. You can manually “assist” it to correct heading faster, but it stop giving increasing input if your are rolled more then 15 degrees in the direction of set heading 

And it will automatically turn off with +/-7 degrees pitch and +/-30 degrees roll at same time doppler goes to memory mode 

Updated weapons guided included, some pictures deleted to fit into ED forums file size limits 

 

EDIT: updated, again

EDIT 2: old versions removed, please see lower posts for updated version 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[primus_TR]

Thanks. Very useful.

[Stratos]

Aeria, can you please make a small tutorial about shooting ATGM from the Gunner position? The controls needed, how to do it and how to make Petro fly straitgh while I shoot.

Thanks a lot!

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Stratos said:

Aeria, can you please make a small tutorial about shooting ATGM from the Gunner position? The controls needed, how to do it and how to make Petro fly straitgh while I shoot.

Thanks a lot!

Sorry, never done it You would know as well as me. I do all my flying in multiplayer, and rarely have the chance to CPG, as only way to really avoid Desync is both start in a cold helo 

[Stratos]

Ok, thanks.

[daddy1schlich]

Hi,

At the end of your helpful Guides, you suggest that additional questions could be raised in the context of a Rotorheads Discord Server.  I've downloaded the Discord app, but it appears that I need an invite to join any Discord server.  Please excuse my ignorance, but how do I do that?

Thanks so much!

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, daddy1schlich said:

Hi,

At the end of your helpful Guides, you suggest that additional questions could be raised in the context of a Rotorheads Discord Server.  I've downloaded the Discord app, but it appears that I need an invite to join any Discord server.  Please excuse my ignorance, but how do I do that?

Thanks so much!

Of course. I would gladly answer any question here as well, but to join rotorheads go into the multiplayer menu for DCS, search for “rotorheads”, you should see a URL for the discord Copy and paste that into a web browser I think. Atleast that’s how I think it works. I’ll double check when I get home. It’s a great place to fly helicopters, and in the Mi-24 help channel when you look in pinned messages has all the public resources I use for learning about Mi-24

[daddy1schlich]

Thanks!  

Your advice worked just fine.  Now I will have explore the ways of Discord and the ways of that server!!

[AeriaGloria]

I am very happy to see all the downloads and reactions. If anyone is interested in updated versions I will post them. However it might be better to wait for R-60M/Kord update, as well as see what will be changed in regards to yaw autopilot and how it’s modes are switched.

Both guides new versions included better separation of sections, table of contents.

For weapons guide includes my personal S-13 profile, and R-60M max range as launched by Mi-24 as quoted by contemporary anti air Mi-24 Soviet twining film. 
 

Autopilot guide includes more info or how upper panel functions interact with other functions, and more clear descriptions and examples of compensation channels and said upper autopilot panel interactions, and additional section “my personal autopilot journey.”
 

I tried to shorten some sections to make the descriptions as short but direct as possible. As each guide is now 24 pages, I realize it is a lot of information, but my goal is this is for anyone that wants to truly study and learn everything they can about flying and fighting in Mi-24P 

Edited April 24, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Rudel_chw]

26 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

However it might be better to wait for R-60M/Kord update, as well as see what will be changed in regards to yaw autopilot and how it’s modes are switched.

 

I agree that it would be best to wait for these updates 

[AeriaGloria]

Yaw autopilot section is now outdated, will update 

[Hunter Joker]

Aeria, with the new trimming options after last patch I think that is time for You coming back to work 

Jocking, but really I hope You will release an updated version of the new trimming options cause at the moment I didn't understand  clearly what they do and how to intereact with them 

[AeriaGloria]

8 hours ago, Hunter Joker said:

Aeria, with the new trimming options after last patch I think that is time for You coming back to work 

Jocking, but really I hope You will release an updated version of the new trimming options cause at the moment I didn't understand  clearly what they do and how to intereact with them 

Some of the current threads on the forum here might help, I can specifically help you answer any questions you have. But yes I will write a new section and release it when I can. Know that if you don’t change anything, it will behave exactly the way it did before the patch 

[AeriaGloria]

   Here is placeholder update with added information for Yaw AP consistent with current OB update as of this writing. Please let me know if there is anything in-correct, or you have any suggestions for things to change. It is long but everything should be explained. I would especially appreciate suggestions on how to shorten descriptions and paragraphs while keeping the information comprehensible or even easier to understand. Thank you 

Later, I will add line by line diagram of entire AP system. This will help explain all inputs of the system, and what channel/mode is effected by a certain input/sensor. 
 

Edit: forgot definition. Added it

 

Twice as long as the original
 

EDIT 2: updated again!!!

EDIT 3: as of 7:55 Zulu time updated again. Added named of hydraulic pedal dampener unit (SDV-5000-OA) to avoid confusion with Yaw AP dampening mode 

I tried to translate line by line AP diagram but it is hard. I can leave it out or include untranslated version with translation notes. It tells you what sensors/inputs go into each channel of the autopilot. Thoughts? 

EDIT 4: updated with additional example of dampening vs heading hold mode, more clear table of contents, as well as splitting Yaw AP section into two parts, Part I covers how the system works in reality. Part II covers how the Implementation/Simulation works in DCS

EDIT 5: sorry, re uploaded three times in last 5 minutes. I’m trying very hard to make it perfect  

EDIT 6: Spent a long ass time perfecting it. This should be as close to a final version as possible pending future DCS patches. Added additional explanation of Pitch/Roll channels in introduction. Changed words to be more specific/accurate, and spelling. Fleshed out end section on Upper Panel functions and limits. Added end BONUS section with diagram line by line of AP, with graphical explanation of hover and route modes, as well as picture showing location of AP equipment in Mi-24 

 

EDIT 7:: final version my ass. Got way more into this then expected. Hope I never have to focus but again. Along with TWO explanations of how dampening and heading hold would react to a turn, I have included the quickest and easiest way to check if you are in dampening or heading hold mode of the Yaw AP. If you want to know, please read 

EDIT 8: Spelling. New definitions. Useless but may be interesting. New heading picture 

EDIT 9: Removed all old guides on here. I think people kept downloading them not knowing there were newer versions below. My weapons guide is a very big file with all the pictures it has. And removing all the pictures not only messes up my lovingly crafted formatting but makes it less awesome! So in order to have it here on the forums, I have attached a Google drive link with the file 

 

Guides have been moved to first post of the thread and will always be updated there 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[AeriaGloria]

Updated and re uploaded a few times in the last 10 minutes. I’m trying very hard to make it perfect. My edits made some unexpected changes to formatting with pictures and figures. I corrected those and made the Figure numbering a bit more clear. Previous post has most updated version. If you want most updated weapons guide PM me, but I will not post it here until R-60/Kord update however proud of it I may be 

Please let me know if my examples are unclear or anything is unexplained. I’ve tried a lot to outline all differences and interactions present in the current AP simulation of VUAP-1

EDIT: change to 5.0 to reflect newest additions and changes. This is the final format change I see happening. Unless ED changes something, the only future changes to this document will be spelling and wording, perhaps organization. Enjoy 

EDIT 2: how naive I was when I posted this last edit…..

Edited May 22, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[AeriaGloria]

I realized I had had an outdated version of my weapons guide uploaded. The most modern version is now available and air to air missile section should have more comparable info now.
 

   I have removed the guides from the post two posts above. From now on and for all future updates the first post on the thread will have the up to date guides, and is now edited to have current versions 

Edited June 29, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Rudel_chw]

15 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

From now on and for all future updates the first post on the thread will have the up to date guides, and is now edited to have current versions 

 

Good idea, thanks a lot for keeping these updated  .. wonder how long it will take for ED to produce a Full manual for this Helo, after all this is a Study Sim and a proper manual plays a big part on that   .... I saved your documents on my stash, will read them later:

 

 

Thanks again, for sharing these docs with the community 

 

Eduardo

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Good idea, thanks a lot for keeping these updated  .. wonder how long it will take for ED to produce a Full manual for this Helo, after all this is a Study Sim and a proper manual plays a big part on that   .... I saved your documents on my stash, will read them later:

 

 

Thanks again, for sharing these docs with the community 

 

Eduardo

I tried to add as much info about Kord gun also in preparation for that update. It will likely work same as Mi-8/Huey, and the hinds are already in the game. I mad it a point to not make my guides about how to operate the weapons (becuase chucks guides alreasy does that more perfect then I could), but just stick with helpful numbers and tips/tricks, learning limitations of the systems and how to work around them. It’s all updated for R-60. Please let me know if you see anything that can be improved or you would like to know! 

[Rudel_chw]

5 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Please let me know if you see anything that can be improved or you would like to know! 

 

Will do, but at the moment I have not returned to the Hind, currently busy learning the Apache and I'm one of those users that sticks to a single aircraft for several months before moving onto a different one .. else I quickly start to confuse things of one aircraft with things of the other 

[Hiob]

Thanks a lot for the awesome guide! This should be pinned!