Jump to content

Autopilot Stabilization Off...Better?


ericinexile

Recommended Posts

If been a little put off by the hard time I'm having at making smooth, quick, COORDINATED turns with the Ka50. It's not that I can't turn it quickly--it just isn't pretty. So I've tried flying with all the stabilizers off. It's fun (and not much harder) but obviously not stable enough to fight with (duuuh). BUT... with Bank and Pitch ON and Lateral OFF ("H" in the Cyrilic pit) it turns better. It requires less rudder for coordination because the pilot isn't overriding the autopilot (which seems to be preventing the turn--as designed I guess). The end results are easy turns with a constant rate and crisper lateral control. Still need it for autohover unfortunately. I'm curious if anyone else thinks this is an improvement.

 

Smokin' Hole


Edited by ericinexile

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Use flight director mode for the most precise flying... no autopilot coupling but the stabilization is still there.

 

Well I'm not talking about the gentle flying we do in "Route mode". And I never mentioned being coupled to the Autopilot. I use it for Hover and stabilization only. I'm talking about the hard turns we make while fast (by helo standards) and low when we want to dart for cover without getting shot.

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I'm not talking about the gentle flying we do in "Route mode". And I never mentioned being coupled to the Autopilot. I use it for Hover and stabilization only. I'm talking about the hard turns we make while fast (by helo standards) and low when we want to dart for cover without getting shot.

 

That's when you should use the flight director mode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's when you should use the flight director mode.

 

Well frankly I thought you were full of sh__. I mean how could a flying machine be designed to fly with the autopilot on ALL THE TIME even when you don't ask for it in Route, Descent, or Hover modes? But you are right!!! The Flight Director is the ONLY way to kill the autopilot and still keep a tad of stabilization. That was so counter intuitive to me that I glossed over it in the FAQs.

 

Thanks Shepski. Glad I listened this time.

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

turn off flight director mode and turn on other 4 autopilot function(those 4 blue buttons are gathered at autopilot panel squarely)

then use autohover + trim to perform stabilized cruise

 

and when you need to maneuver hard, turn off autohover and do what you want.(reset trim if you need to)

 

upper is what im doing now... not sure my method is right.

 

 

ohh and, one thing you have to be careful is, sometimes, those 4 autopilot function buttons are offed automatically(without any notification) and feck AC's movement up.

so, when you felt plane movment is ****ed up, even if you are using autohover, check those 4 buttons immediately.

 

I dont know this is bug or a feature of BS.

may be the latter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I´ve been testing these four AP Modes for some time and think, it is best to turn Pitch and Bank on while flying and leave the rest off until I reach a position, where I have good and safe sight to the movers and want to stay for a while. After having choosen the right altitude and azimut, I switch all 4 on and I

 

- uncage the skval (O)

- "Automatic turn on target mode" (Q)

- "Ground moving target" (N),

- Master Arm (W - LAlt).

- Activate Laser (O - RShift)

- choose weapon (Z or U)

 

Now because of the "Autopilot Heading hold" and "Automatic turn on target mode" the the chopper now precisely and fast automatically follows the laser position with its nose by doing a smooth turn if necessary. So I can concentrate on finding targets and the AP does the rest -> GREAT! :-) If there is some wind I turn on the Hover Mode (T - LAlt) which seems to help to stabilise the bird.

 

I haven´t used (and understood) the flight director mode yet, but will give it a try. Sounds quite handy.

 

After some problems in the beginning with all these different confusing AP Modes, I now do love them all, especially because of these comprehensive possibilities they gives us. It is just another example of the realism factor in this absolutely fantastic and phenomenal simulation the guys of ED gave us.

 

PS: Sry 4 my bad english

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pressing (and holding) the trim button has a similar effect as the flight director, with the added advantage of re-setting your preferred heading when you release.

 

The problem is that letting go of the trim button leaves you with a poor excuse for a controllable flying machine. I flew 20 hours before I realized that I was fighting the autopilot all the way to the fight. Nonsense! Flight Director ON = Autopilot off (mostly) = The wonderful death on rotors that I hoped Black Shark would be.

 

My motto: Flight Director ON or all BLUE LIGHTS OFF.

 

(Thanks again Shepski)

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're better off leaving Heading, Pitch and Bank AP channels on with Flight Director. Makes it easier to fly, with Flight Director on the autopilot has no control inputs only stability augmentation. But sure if you want to make it harder then switch 'em off...

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is that letting go of the trim button leaves you with a poor excuse for a controllable flying machine. I flew 20 hours before I realized that I was fighting the autopilot all the way to the fight. Nonsense! Flight Director ON = Autopilot off (mostly) = The wonderful death on rotors that I hoped Black Shark would be.

 

My motto: Flight Director ON or all BLUE LIGHTS OFF.

 

(Thanks again Shepski)

 

Smokin' Hole

 

Only release the trim button when you are at the desired heading and desired pitch angle (speed) , that way you can go hands off and play in the cockpit if you need too.

 

If you are fighting the autopilot all the way in, then you are not trimming very well!

 

Flight director is great, and I use it when going in close for rockets or guns, but for general flight or standoff hovering, I have all channels on (except possibly Altitude hold) , and if I need to make changes in heading, use the autopilot modes (turn to target for eg) , or press/hold trim, and release on correct heading / pitch angle.

 

You cannot go hands off with flight director (well..you Can , but its risky to go heads down) , but if you are using AP Channels and are trimming sensibly, then you can go heads down any time you like with some confidence.

 

Of course it's personal preference! I don't mean to bag your method, but I find myself heads down more and more often as I progress in unerstanding the game, and using the AP modes more an more as a result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only release the trim button when you are at the desired heading and desired pitch angle (speed) , that way you can go hands off and play in the cockpit if you need too.

 

If you are fighting the autopilot all the way in, then you are not trimming very well!

 

Flight director is great, and I use it when going in close for rockets or guns, but for general flight or standoff hovering, I have all channels on (except possibly Altitude hold) , and if I need to make changes in heading, use the autopilot modes (turn to target for eg) , or press/hold trim, and release on correct heading / pitch angle.

 

You cannot go hands off with flight director (well..you Can , but its risky to go heads down) , but if you are using AP Channels and are trimming sensibly, then you can go heads down any time you like with some confidence.

 

Of course it's personal preference! I don't mean to bag your method, but I find myself heads down more and more often as I progress in unerstanding the game, and using the AP modes more an more as a result.

 

I didn't say it would work for you. But it works for me very well. Try this with 3 BLUE LIGHTS and NO Flight Director (and NO A/P Modes, ie "Route"):

 

1) Stabilize and Trim at 200 kph.

2) Bank 30 degrees

3) keep the ball centered and turn 360 degrees.

4) Maintain speed with cyclic and altitude with collective.

 

Now, was the turn smooth and CONSTANT RATE? Unless you're a freakin' rock start of a Ka50 pilot it probably wasn't. You probably had a few pauses in the turn. You were probably using a considerable amount of in-turn cyclic pressure to maintain bank angle. You were fighting the autopilot!

 

Now. Turn the Flight Director ON and repeat the above. Easier and prettier, right? Even trimming is easier. Maybe our computers and joysticks are different and that would explain the differing experience we have with the autopilot. But with my system and my x52 the Ka50 as simulated in DCS flies best with either FD ON or all Blue Lights OFF.

 

Smokin'

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one thing im still struggling with are turns. FD off and HDG/Bank/Pitch AP turned on most of it is fine but when i try to turn im really fighting it, it stops, it stutters even with trim.

 

If you are meant to fly with the 3 modes on (realism wise) how exactly are you meant to do a fairly substantial turn onto a new heading without it constantly fighting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I started my Virtual Career in the Kamov with the Autopilot system on, barring the Altitude Hold, ie the Default Cheat-Start config.......and that nearly saw me putting the Cougar through my monitor.........:joystick:

 

I then stumbled upon the Flight Director and thought I stumbled upon Flight Utopia.......at last........a semblance of Control.......

 

And then I read a post - cannot recall exactly who stated what, suffice to say that the just of the submission was to Fly the Bird as she was intended to be flown, ie with the Flight Director OFF, Autopilot engaged, no cancel-trim dependance and proper Trim-compliance etc etc.........

 

Personally - the best bit of advice I have assimilated thus far! It took a wee bit of time/patience, but all of a sudden things just 'Clicked'. I now find that with the FD engaged, Flight is a lot more 'rigid' and as a consequence, unpleasant.

 

It's true what they say - the Kamov thrives on an Angel's Touch!

 

It's All Good :D

Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career?

Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

'....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell....

One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello there...

Want to use the "stabilization Question" to introduce myfelf in this wonderful community.

Im flying the KA-50 for about one week now. And yes, it took a while until I realized how this strange, ugly bird should be controlled.

 

First of all, please regard those AP Modes, not as real Autopilots, but as a computer aided stabilisation against the flight physics which simply occurs during the flight of this strange bird. Yesterdy I saw what happens if those functions fail after some 23mm hits and loss of hydraulic pressure. Nice flight experience!

As you guys know, every modern combat aircraft is aerodynamic instable. First of those new aircraft type was the F-16A. But no F-16 Pilot would get the idea of shutting down the computer support while flying. And in fact, a helicopter is ALWAYS instable.

 

As one guy above already wrote...

As long as you are maneuvering (for getting on the desired heading/speed/altitude) HOLD DOWN the Trimming! When the Heli reaches the desired flight parameters and is stabilised in all 3 axes, realease it. Now the Shark will stay on course with current speed as long as no parameter is changed by outer influence. Works quiet well, I think.

 

Last problem is the precise aiming with unguided weapons. By the way, I think I didnt hit a target with unguided rockets yet. The TV Monitor shows that all rockets impact in the target location, but no one of the 40 rockets perform a direkt hit. Its easier to destroy Trucks with cannonpods on 2km than with rockets. Guess the blast of rocket explosion has to be adapted a little in the future or you must be able to change the warhead of those 80mm rockets to cluster. Im sure the russians also use those cluster warheads as the Army uses for their AH's.

 

You guys think it's easier to aim while in AP DC-Mode?

I'll give it a try!

 

So, have a nice FLIGHT!

And Greetings to my old Squadron Commander Viper:pilotfly:

AND

 

the DCS-BlackShark-Team for creating the most amazing and wunderful computer programm ever developed!!!

PLEASE DO NEVER STOP to create new features and vehicles for this great project! Who else should bring me in the air?! If a lack of money could be a problem, I think everybody will agree that we create a "DCS Donation-Fond" :-)

And as we are talking about money...:-)

What would it take to release the AH-64 as the next DCS modul?!? The ugly warthog should be the next to be released, correct me if I'm wrong. I am so corious to enter the Apache with my gunner in Multiplayer again.

Last time was on Longbow2. Hope he still knows how to use the TADS!

Anybody remember the Single Mission "Hot Potato" ??? HRHRHR

 

Only one thing is really "****ed up":(

The payment via credit card. It was quiet hard for me to get those desired 2GB:music_whistling:

Perhaps you guys think that in western Europe everybody gets one with birth:megalol:

My future Co/Gunner just said to me he would pay 80€ for this great game NOW!

But he is so pissed off that he has to wait until middle of february, that he will dl a cracked version. I'll try to cool him down. But it's hard, as you can imagine. Anyway, im already so addicted to this simulation, I really think my studies are endangered. Hope you guys feel guilty!!!

But no matter. In a few weeks I can call the russian army for a seat in a KA-50:lol:


Edited by Niehorst

NZXT H400i case

i9 9900k @ 4,9GHz (cooled by NZXT Kraken X62 4x140Fan - Push/Pull)

Asus RoG Maximus XI Gene with 32GB G.Skill CL14

Samsung M.2 970Pro 1000GB

ZOTAC RTX 2080ti Triple Fan 11GB

34" RoG Swift Curved TFT

 

runs smooth like Beck's Gold :D

 

HTC VIVE pro eYe (still freaking out!)

Thrust Master HOTAS Warthog on MONSTERTECH table mounts

15cm Stick Extension + red spring by SAHAJ 8 (<-- love them)

(TM F-18C ordered)

TPR (Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder)

T.Flight USAF Headset

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last problem is the precise aiming with unguided weapons. By the way, I think I didnt hit a target with unguided rockets yet. The TV Monitor shows that all rockets impact in the target location, but no one of the 40 rockets perform a direkt hit. Its easier to destroy Trucks with cannonpods on 2km than with rockets.

 

Aiming circle is lying, unless fire control computer knows the range to target. In other words, you need to measure range with laser to hit accurately with rockets. There are 2 ways to do that:

 

1) Auto track mode on: lock target with Shkval.

2) Manual mode: move aircraft in such position that aiming circle is over target, press Auto Lock button to measure range;

 

See English manual 2-101, switch #11.

Wir sehen uns in Walhalla.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lock the target via Shkval... as I do for using missiles.

I "try" to maneuver the helicopters aiming circle over target circle and fire.

As I wrote, the rockets hit the location... I see impacts in the direct surrounding area of the target, lets say a fuel truck. No effect.

I tried it with cannonpods. Nearly every salvo light up a truck!

But I keep on practicing!

NZXT H400i case

i9 9900k @ 4,9GHz (cooled by NZXT Kraken X62 4x140Fan - Push/Pull)

Asus RoG Maximus XI Gene with 32GB G.Skill CL14

Samsung M.2 970Pro 1000GB

ZOTAC RTX 2080ti Triple Fan 11GB

34" RoG Swift Curved TFT

 

runs smooth like Beck's Gold :D

 

HTC VIVE pro eYe (still freaking out!)

Thrust Master HOTAS Warthog on MONSTERTECH table mounts

15cm Stick Extension + red spring by SAHAJ 8 (<-- love them)

(TM F-18C ordered)

TPR (Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder)

T.Flight USAF Headset

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Niehorst I find if target is stationary and soft like a truck then the rockets impacting around target 9 times outa ten , set the target alight. If your trying to hit a soft target whilst its moving then you have to judge your lead (aim where the target will be at impact not where it is at the moment of weapon release)

I have no problems now hitting targets with rockets. I use Autos and trim to get to target area then switch to FD and pick off targets at will.

I only do this once I have depleted my Guided weapons in a stand off a few Klicks away(all done with Auto's and Trim).

Take time and master the autos and trim as it is the way this machine is used.

Use FD when up close with unguided weapons.

Oh and if you find yourself under attack whilst in Auto just hold down trim and pull out of the way(don't be too severe with stick), once you are out of harms way and stable release the trim and a settle yourself before you counter attack. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

THX 4 your answer...

Iam an old IL2 Fan. I KNOW WHAT CALCULATING LEAD means ;-)

Iam still trying to hit unmoving targets. Question: FD?

 

Perhaps I have to precise my problem. I want to attack soft targets from the maximum effective rocket range... or a little underneath. Not talking about an approaching attack run. (by the way, is it possible to launch rockets even if the target gets closer than 1km?)

It just surprises me if I hover, switch salvo mode to large, aim for a few trucks, release all 40 rockets in a "smooth turn" over the "target marker" and no vehicle even looks like it has a tire puncture :-))) The impacts look great, from distance and on the Shkval. Remebers me of a documentation about the Vietnam Air-war. The american pilots said about unguided rockets that they dont hit anything, but the BLAST is awesome :-)))

Perhaps Iam still too bad in aiming. It also takes a bit until I have the rockets pointed on the target.

 

What you wrote about how to get away from threats by holding the trim is absolutely correct! I realized this just two days ago and it works just fine. I always hold the trim while maneuvering, change position or turn to another waypont.

If you hover to close to enemys MBT's for example and you really have to get away FAST, holding the trim was the only chance for me to get out before catching a 120mm HE round;-)

NZXT H400i case

i9 9900k @ 4,9GHz (cooled by NZXT Kraken X62 4x140Fan - Push/Pull)

Asus RoG Maximus XI Gene with 32GB G.Skill CL14

Samsung M.2 970Pro 1000GB

ZOTAC RTX 2080ti Triple Fan 11GB

34" RoG Swift Curved TFT

 

runs smooth like Beck's Gold :D

 

HTC VIVE pro eYe (still freaking out!)

Thrust Master HOTAS Warthog on MONSTERTECH table mounts

15cm Stick Extension + red spring by SAHAJ 8 (<-- love them)

(TM F-18C ordered)

TPR (Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder)

T.Flight USAF Headset

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...