Brand new here have f 16c on trial. inbuilt guides are very bad !

[swaps]

Hi all,

                   I dont think this will just be me . I new to DCS and 4 days in to f16 trial. The inbuilt lessons are not good for a beginner. They assume you know a lot. take for example the amraam lesson on how to lock up 2 targets. tell you the buttons to press to get the target on the radar and then tells you to lock the target but fails to tell you how to do that. There are many instances of this throughout the lessons. They just assume you know it. I have the PDF that comes with it and  guide but again they talk about a switch and to see it you have to go back numerous pages to look at a photo on which half the labels cant be read. The videos on youtube again are good but assume you know what they are talking about and you know where the button or switch is. are there any really basic guides for the F16 ? need to learn the radar, locking targets, switches for ECM and if they should be on all the time ? it would also help if the videos on youtube ect explained what the letters on a switch mean instead of just saying the letters. I am sometimes just pressing buttons and have know idea why I am doing it lol. Apart from that I am enjoying it all so far.  If you know of well explained videos on youtube or other please can you post some links.

 

Thanks Alan

[Rudel_chw]

33 minutes ago, swaps said:

They assume you know a lot

the training missions assume that you have read the manual and at the very least have configured your hotas, a training mission cant hand-hold you since every pilot has a different hotas and a different preference about what action  assign to which button.

[draconus]

It's called study sim for some reason.

Manual is in the DCS/mods/aircraft/F-16/doc

Chuck's guide is pretty popular

You want basic guide but you took on learing modern advanced aircraft and its weapon systems - these are not basics you're looking for.

[Dscross]

29 minutes ago, swaps said:

Hi all,

                   I dont think this will just be me . I new to DCS and 4 days in to f16 trial. The inbuilt lessons are not good for a beginner. They assume you know a lot. take for example the amraam lesson on how to lock up 2 targets. tell you the buttons to press to get the target on the radar and then tells you to lock the target but fails to tell you how to do that. There are many instances of this throughout the lessons. They just assume you know it. I have the PDF that comes with it and  guide but again they talk about a switch and to see it you have to go back numerous pages to look at a photo on which half the labels cant be read. The videos on youtube again are good but assume you know what they are talking about and you know where the button or switch is. are there any really basic guides for the F16 ? need to learn the radar, locking targets, switches for ECM and if they should be on all the time ? it would also help if the videos on youtube ect explained what the letters on a switch mean instead of just saying the letters. I am sometimes just pressing buttons and have know idea why I am doing it lol. Apart from that I am enjoying it all so far.  If you know of well explained videos on youtube or other please can you post some links.

 

Thanks Alan

Welcome to the community. 

Okay, I know it's all confusing at first. I can give you a few pieces of advice which helped me. First, learn how "sensor of Interest" works. "Not SOI" will be on your MFD, that means that display isn't the sensor of interest, IE the one you are working with. the F16, F/A-18, A-10 and AV8b all work by having a master mode I.E. air to air, air to ground, navigation, etc. Once you get a master mode, make sure your master arm is on, (left side of cockpit in F16) So AA master mode, Master Arm on, make your Fire Control Radar (FCR) the sensor of interest. (not mandatory in air to air, depends on what you're doing. (I.E. the dogfight modes.) 

To help there are a few buttons you'll need. First, "Data Management Switch." in the tutorials this is called "DMS" it's a 4 way switch on the stick. DMS down will cycle through your display's making one or the other sensor of interest. (forward makes the HUD SOI). Next you'll need "Target Management Switch" it's another 4 way found on the F16 stick. TMS forward will lock a target on your Fire Control radar. TMS Right will cycle through targets, left conducts an Identification Freind or Foe check, down unlocks a target. Holding TMS long (meaning a longer press than normal, I.E. press and hold.) does other things. 

Basicly each switch does different things if pressed and held, or just pressed short. It also does different things depending on the master mode. For example the nose wheel steering button turns your steering on/ off while on the ground. In the air cycles through missile stations and other things. 

Okay, So, i know it's confusing at first. We've all been there. But once you understand the concept behind how the jet works, you'll pick things up rapidly. You just need some of the basics down. 

Long post, sorry, just a bit more. Here is the link to the Chuck's Guide for the F-16. Chuck writes his own guides for sim aircraft, and he does and outstanding job. Chuck's guides are the go to for many DCS players, myself included. (it's handing having a reference up on my second screen when I haven't flow a jet in awhile and such.) Chuck also explains the controls and what they do. It should help. Chuck’s Guides – DCS F-16C Viper | Mudspike

Lastly. It very much helped me when I had someone to fly with, some instructor support so to speak. Someone did it for me, so I'll pay it forward. We've got more than a few people in my discord who know the F16 very well. I wouldn't say I'm an expert at it, but I can certainly help get you off to a good start. Drop by anytime and just ask anyone you find for help. Or message me personally on discord. Here's the link to my discord. https://discord.gg/JuBydbsfDn

Good luck, and let me know if there's anything I can help with. 

[Leg2ion]

@swaps I started on the A10CII (and haven't left yet despite having a few other modules) - which I would recommend - as the tutorials are pretty good, taking you through basic flight manoeuvres, navigation, MFD use and weapons employment, plus use of the DMS/TMS. In addition the aircraft is slow and fairly forgiving (ish).

You may have noticed but the community here is pretty good (apart from the odd grouch) and will help, advise and assist where at all possible.

If you get the bug I thoroughly recommend a decent HOTAS setup and head tracking (which is an absolute game changer).

[Dscross]

10 minutes ago, Leg2ion said:

@swaps I started on the A10CII (and haven't left yet despite having a few other modules) - which I would recommend - as the tutorials are pretty good, taking you through basic flight manoeuvres, navigation, MFD use and weapons employment, plus use of the DMS/TMS. In addition the aircraft is slow and fairly forgiving (ish).

You may have noticed but the community here is pretty good (apart from the odd grouch) and will help, advise and assist where at all possible.

If you get the bug I thoroughly recommend a decent HOTAS setup and head tracking (which is an absolute game changer).

I agree on the head tracking and good HOTAS. Makes all the difference. 

[swaps]

6 minutes ago, Leg2ion said:

@swaps I started on the A10CII (and haven't left yet despite having a few other modules) - which I would recommend - as the tutorials are pretty good, taking you through basic flight manoeuvres, navigation, MFD use and weapons employment, plus use of the DMS/TMS. In addition the aircraft is slow and fairly forgiving (ish).

You may have noticed but the community here is pretty good (apart from the odd grouch) and will help, advise and assist where at all possible.

If you get the bug I thoroughly recommend a decent HOTAS setup and head tracking (which is an absolute game changer).

Yes, I have had lots of help so far. I have the Thrustmaster stick X. basic but lots of buttons so I intend to use this until I know what I am doing. I dont intend to have more than 2 or 3 paid plane. Looking at the F16 I am using now if other planes need same level of operation I dont think I could remember more than 2 or 3 at best.

[Dscross]

the first jets are always the hardest. Once you get how the game, and how the different jets sorta work. (like master modes, etc. you'll get it.) and like I said, any time you want a couple flight lessons, I can get you started and on your way. 

 

[swaps]

42 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

the training missions assume that you have read the manual and at the very least have configured your hotas, a training mission cant hand-hold you since every pilot has a different hotas and a different preference about what action  assign to which button.

I have basics on my stick fire thrust,  pause, flair. any other switches I toggle with the mouse in the cockpit. The training videos show the buttons being pressed in the cockpit but then say lock on but dont tell you what needs pressing. I have gone through the guides and will have to read more but its hard when being told something and having to go back 5 or more pages to see a picture of what they are talking about. I will have to do a screen shot of panel but even then its so hard to see the writing

 

1 minute ago, Dscross said:

the first jets are always the hardest. Once you get how the game, and how the different jets sorta work. (like master modes, etc. you'll get it.) and like I said, any time you want a couple flight lessons, I can get you started and on your way. 

 

I will try some more reading and see how I go but will sign up to your discord and get hold of you when I am stuck again. Thanks Alan

41 minutes ago, draconus said:

It's called study sim for some reason.

Manual is in the DCS/mods/aircraft/F-16/doc

Chuck's guide is pretty popular

You want basic guide but you took on learing modern advanced aircraft and its weapon systems - these are not basics you're looking for.

Thanks, I will check that out

 

[Leg2ion]

8 minutes ago, swaps said:

I dont intend to have more than 2 or 3 paid plane.

Think I said that once....

Another tip - look up the command for Active Pause - which pauses the game but allows missions to continue - so you can freeze flight (for instance if you're lining up on a bomb or gun run) but you can still configure weapons and MFDs etc, though a word of caution - if there are SAMs in the vicinity or missiles flying they will still continue on their mission to swat you out the air...nasty surprise when you have your head stuck in a manual trying to figure out bombing modes...

[Dscross]

10 minutes ago, Leg2ion said:

Think I said that once....

Another tip - look up the command for Active Pause - which pauses the game but allows missions to continue - so you can freeze flight (for instance if you're lining up on a bomb or gun run) but you can still configure weapons and MFDs etc, though a word of caution - if there are SAMs in the vicinity or missiles flying they will still continue on their mission to swat you out the air...nasty surprise when you have your head stuck in a manual trying to figure out bombing modes...

I said that once as well... lol

 

[Rudel_chw]

58 minutes ago, swaps said:

I have basics on my stick fire thrust,  pause, flair. any other switches I toggle with the mouse in the cockpit.

ok, but keep in mind that buttons that on the real aircraft are on the hotas, like the lock button, cant usually be clicked with the mouse .. you have to bind them to your stick or use keyboard commands.

[Castor Troy]

Just know, it may take you a few weeks, or even months to fly a successful sortie when you are brand new to DCS. For me anyway. But the time spent is well worth it once you have it learned.

 

Edit* Keybinding is half the battle.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Castor Troy

[Tom Kazansky]

7 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

ok, but keep in mind that buttons that on the real aircraft are on the hotas, like the lock button, cant usually be clicked with the mouse .. you have to bind them to your stick or use keyboard commands.

^this!

[draconus]

9 hours ago, swaps said:

I have the Thrustmaster stick X. basic but lots of buttons...

Please... it's just a few buttons. You need a lot more for modern jet since you lack the T from the HOTAS. But good thing is you can multiply the number of bindings by using modifiers. Can be simple Ctrl, Shift or Alt if you keep your keyboard close or sacrifice 1 or 2 buttons as a modifier. That way you have not only more functions for the same buttons but also for the hat switch - this will allow you to simulate having a few hats that you physically don't have.

[Razor18]

13 hours ago, swaps said:

Hi all,

                   I dont think this will just be me . I new to DCS and 4 days in to f16 trial. The inbuilt lessons are not good for a beginner. They assume you know a lot. take for example the amraam lesson on how to lock up 2 targets. tell you the buttons to press to get the target on the radar and then tells you to lock the target but fails to tell you how to do that. There are many instances of this throughout the lessons. They just assume you know it. I have the PDF that comes with it and  guide but again they talk about a switch and to see it you have to go back numerous pages to look at a photo on which half the labels cant be read. The videos on youtube again are good but assume you know what they are talking about and you know where the button or switch is. are there any really basic guides for the F16 ? need to learn the radar, locking targets, switches for ECM and if they should be on all the time ? it would also help if the videos on youtube ect explained what the letters on a switch mean instead of just saying the letters. I am sometimes just pressing buttons and have know idea why I am doing it lol. Apart from that I am enjoying it all so far.  If you know of well explained videos on youtube or other please can you post some links.

Thanks Alan

No intention to lecture you, but If you want to know how much button and switches you WOULD need on a stick to be anywhere near reality, please open up the Keybind screen, and select HOTAS section after selecting your own module (F-16). And if you want to learn it, then learn to walk first, and then learn how to run afterwards. It is much more rewarding, than jumping in the middle of it, and start shooting up stuff immediately, before you learn how to manage the aircaft for simple flying. YOu can download Chuck's guide, and start reading it, and doing in the sim what you read in the guide. No pun intended.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Razor18

[Glide]

14 hours ago, swaps said:

I am sometimes just pressing buttons and have know idea why I am doing it lol.

That sounds like me in Lost Ark!  One more tip, split the tasks into flying and fighting.  Get your flying controls mapped and memorized.  There's a lot of enjoyment to be had just flying around the maps.  Add the cannon, and a missile, add a bomb, etc.  One thing at a time, and soon it will click. 

[Callsign112]

15 hours ago, swaps said:

Hi all,

                   I dont think this will just be me . I new to DCS and 4 days in to f16 trial. The inbuilt lessons are not good for a beginner. They assume you know a lot. take for example the amraam lesson on how to lock up 2 targets. tell you the buttons to press to get the target on the radar and then tells you to lock the target but fails to tell you how to do that. There are many instances of this throughout the lessons. They just assume you know it. I have the PDF that comes with it and  guide but again they talk about a switch and to see it you have to go back numerous pages to look at a photo on which half the labels cant be read. The videos on youtube again are good but assume you know what they are talking about and you know where the button or switch is. are there any really basic guides for the F16 ? need to learn the radar, locking targets, switches for ECM and if they should be on all the time ? it would also help if the videos on youtube ect explained what the letters on a switch mean instead of just saying the letters. I am sometimes just pressing buttons and have know idea why I am doing it lol. Apart from that I am enjoying it all so far.  If you know of well explained videos on youtube or other please can you post some links.

 

Thanks Alan

You have already received some very good advice, and some very generous offers. The DCS free trial is also excellent and really worthwhile taking advantage of. But as you have already noticed, DCS World is not a one page book. You could spend an infinite amount of time perfecting just one module. If you want to vary your experience a little, or just take more time to get some of the DCS World basics down including setting up your system, the two free aircraft that came with your DCS download are well suited for this purpose.

Welcome and enjoy the experience. 

[swaps]

2 hours ago, Razor18 said:

No intention to lecture you, but If you want to know how much button and switches you WOULD need on a stick to be anywhere near reality, please open up the Keybind screen, and select HOTAS section after selecting your own module (F-16). And if you want to learn it, then learn to walk first, and then learn how to run afterwards. It is much more rewarding, than jumping in the middle of it, and start shooting up stuff immediately, before you learn how to manage the aircaft for simple flying. YOu can download Chuck's guide, and start reading it, and doing in the sim what you read in the guide. No pun intended.

 

I am going to get head tracking set up this week. I may be missing some of the buttons being explained in some of the videos. I had forgot that some may be further back than normal flying position shows. I am sure this will help me anyway.  Its hard being new and want to do all the things that you experienced pilots do ! I will get there. I really love this sim already and the help has been great I would like to thank you all for responding.

 

Alan

Edited March 16, 2022 by swaps

[Leg2ion]

7 hours ago, swaps said:

Its hard being new and want to do all the things that you experienced pilots do !

We've all been there - and yep can be really difficult when all you want to do is drop ordnance on stuff and blow s**t up - but then spend 2 hours trying to figure out why something didn't work as advertised.

What head tracking did you go for in the end? I use a delanclip -  very good, lightweight and once I got my head around certain settings and tuned it a little bit have often asked myself why (oh why oh why) did I not explore this years ago - if not for DCS but certainly for some FPS that satisfy my 'inner infantryman'...

[swaps]

28 minutes ago, Leg2ion said:

We've all been there - and yep can be really difficult when all you want to do is drop ordnance on stuff and blow s**t up - but then spend 2 hours trying to figure out why something didn't work as advertised.

What head tracking did you go for in the end? I use a delanclip -  very good, lightweight and once I got my head around certain settings and tuned it a little bit have often asked myself why (oh why oh why) did I not explore this years ago - if not for DCS but certainly for some FPS that satisfy my 'inner infantryman'...

I am going to try AItrack with open track and a standard web cam. Seems to do the job on the videos I have seen.  If not great I will go down the IR route.

[swaps]

To anyone else struggling with radar on the F-16 viper this video by Growling sidewider is the best I have found. It cleared up a lot of issues for me and gave me contols that I need to map to my stick.