QuiGon Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) For some reason Vipers don't show up on the Hornet's DL in fighter/fighter mode (meaning no AWACS available). The Viper can see the Hornets on their DL, but not vice versa. This is an issue that is especially evident and problematic on the BlueFlag 80s server, where both aircraft types fly on the same side and AWACS is not available, so the F/F DL to extremely important for coordination. Is this a known issue? Edit: Forgot to mention, that this issue only applys to human controlled aircraft in multiplayer. Edited March 18, 2022 by QuiGon 2 Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTJS17_Fire Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 If the aircrafts hardware is set for the 80s (like no GPS in the Hornet), Link16 should'nt be available, as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16 1 Hardware: Intel i5 4670K | Zalman NPS9900MAX | GeIL 16GB @1333MHz | Asrock Z97 Pro4 | Sapphire Radeon R9 380X Nitro | Samsung SSDs 840 series 120GB & 250 GB | Samsung HD204UI 2TB | be quiet! Pure Power 530W | Aerocool RS-9 Devil Red | Samsung SyncMaster SA350 24" + ASUS VE198S 19" | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 5 | Thrustmaster MFD Cougar | Speedlink Darksky LED | Razor Diamondback | Razor X-Mat Control | SoundBlaster Tactic 3D Rage ### Software: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, VTJS17_Fire said: If the aircrafts hardware is set for the 80s (like no GPS in the Hornet), Link16 should'nt be available, as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16 But is that acutally and intentionally simulated? Or is that just how you want it to be? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianR666 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, VTJS17_Fire said: If the aircrafts hardware is set for the 80s there is no such function in dcs the aircraft is always the same, regardless of mission date Edited March 17, 2022 by dorianR666 CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 34 minutes ago, dorianR666 said: there is no such function in dcs the aircraft is always the same, regardless of mission date Alright, that's what I thought. Now as this is clarified, I would still love to have an answer for my original question: Why do Vipers not appear on the Hornet F/F DL? Bug? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTJS17_Fire Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 hours ago, dorianR666 said: there is no such function in dcs the aircraft is always the same, regardless of mission date Erm, nope. That is not true. If you set the mission date before 1996, the Hornet don't have GPS, for instance. Then, you just have INS for alignment and navigation. That's why I'm arguing with the Link16 and time frame. But for the datalink, I don't know, if it's correct modelled, too. Hardware: Intel i5 4670K | Zalman NPS9900MAX | GeIL 16GB @1333MHz | Asrock Z97 Pro4 | Sapphire Radeon R9 380X Nitro | Samsung SSDs 840 series 120GB & 250 GB | Samsung HD204UI 2TB | be quiet! Pure Power 530W | Aerocool RS-9 Devil Red | Samsung SyncMaster SA350 24" + ASUS VE198S 19" | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 5 | Thrustmaster MFD Cougar | Speedlink Darksky LED | Razor Diamondback | Razor X-Mat Control | SoundBlaster Tactic 3D Rage ### Software: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cepheus76 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I would think that the chosen time frame shouldn't have an impact on Link 16 availability, since all the required components are, to my limited knowledge, installed on the aircrafts. GPS, on the other hand, relies on external components, i.e. the GPS satellites, which weren't available in the 80s. Therefore, it may be possible that the OP found a bug, since he reports that the Viper can see the Hornets, which implies that the Link 16 equipment is not deliberately disabled by choosing a certain date- But that are just my 2 Cents, of course. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, VTJS17_Fire said: That's why I'm arguing with the Link16 and time frame. But for the datalink, I don't know, if it's correct modelled, too. I'm afraid you're on the wrong path here. There is no such restriction in DCS, that the availability of Link16 depends on the mission date. In fact, Link 16 IS available in the described setting. Hornets can share data just fine between themselves as well as with AWACS and so can Vipers. The only thing that is not working is Vipers showing up on the Hornets data link, unless provided by AWACS. So please stop derailing the topic. What you describe is really not the issue here. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTJS17_Fire Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I understand your point, QuiGon ... what I wanted to say is, that maybe the general possibility of Link16 is the bug, not the missing link between the Viper and the Hornet. Hardware: Intel i5 4670K | Zalman NPS9900MAX | GeIL 16GB @1333MHz | Asrock Z97 Pro4 | Sapphire Radeon R9 380X Nitro | Samsung SSDs 840 series 120GB & 250 GB | Samsung HD204UI 2TB | be quiet! Pure Power 530W | Aerocool RS-9 Devil Red | Samsung SyncMaster SA350 24" + ASUS VE198S 19" | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 5 | Thrustmaster MFD Cougar | Speedlink Darksky LED | Razor Diamondback | Razor X-Mat Control | SoundBlaster Tactic 3D Rage ### Software: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toutenglisse Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, QuiGon said: ...The only thing that is not working is Vipers showing up on the Hornets data link, unless provided by AWACS... FWIW it works with AI Vipers... They show correctly on Hornet's datalink/SA page without AWACS. So it seems to be related to human controlled Vipers, maybe AI Vipers use a datalink option that is not enabled by default for Client/player IDK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, toutenglisse said: FWIW it works with AI Vipers... They show correctly on Hornet's datalink/SA page without AWACS. So it seems to be related to human controlled Vipers, maybe AI Vipers use a datalink option that is not enabled by default for Client/player IDK... Yeah, good point, I forgot to mention this. The issue is indeed only about human controlled aircraft. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianR666 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, VTJS17_Fire said: If you set the mission date before 1996, the Hornet don't have GPS, for instance thats because of simulating the lack of satellites (also its 1994 in dcs iirc), not because different aircraft hardware. the hardware is always the same. Edited March 17, 2022 by dorianR666 2 CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulkbust44 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 thats because of simulating the lack of satellites (also its 1994 in dcs iirc), not because different aircraft hardware. the hardware is always the same.94'? Last I checked a few years ago it was 1986, was there an unannounced change?Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianR666 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hulkbust44 said: 94'? Last I checked a few years ago it was 1986, was there an unannounced change? Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk i cant test it right now but BN said so CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) A while ago I made a thread about Vipers not showing up on the Hornets data link through fighter-fighter DL (no AWACS present). There was no solution presented to the issue and as this issue continued to bother me I did some testing with my buddies and I think we found what exactly causes this issue: The issue is actually not with the Hornet, but with the Viper: As soon as the mission date is pre-1994 the F/F DL of the Viper stops working. In our testing me and my buddies all flew Vipers in a test mission without AWACS. When the mission date is set after 1994, the F/F data link on the Viper is working fine, meaning Vipers can see each other on the HSD. If the mission date is set prior to 1994 the F/F data link on the Viper does not work, meaning Vipers can not see each other on the HSD. Interestingly, the Vipers can still see Hornets on the HSD through F/F data link, but not other Vipers (similarly Hornets can see other Hornets, but not the Vipers). This is really frustrating when flying on servers like BlueFlag Syria which has a mission date of 1990 and no AWACS, meaning Vipers will never appear on the DL, only Hornets will. Edit: I should mention that I focused on multiplayer and the interaction between player controlled aircraft here. I have not tested it with AI. Edited June 2, 2022 by QuiGon 5 3 Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOViper Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 This topic is marked with label "Correct as is". Was the label placed before Quigon's post or thereafter? Visit https://www.viggen.training ...Viggen... what more can you ask for? my computer: AMD Ryzen 5600G | NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti OC 11GB | 32 GB 3200 MHz DDR4 DUAL | SSD 980 256 GB SYS + SSD 2TB DCS | TM Warthog Stick + Throttle + TPR | Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted June 2, 2022 Author Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, TOViper said: This topic is marked with label "Correct as is". Was the label placed before Quigon's post or thereafter? Huh, I do not recall having seen it before. So just to be sure @BIGNEWY@NineLine: Is the behaviour I described in my previous post ("If the mission date is set prior to 1994 the F/F data link on the Viper does not work") intended? In other words: Is the Viper F/F DL not supposed to function if GPS is not available whereas the Hornet F/F DL does work in this situation? Edited June 2, 2022 by QuiGon 1 Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) Going back to the GPS thing, could it be that Link 16 requires GPS time to function correctly (as in all sources need to be using the same precise time) and that this limitation is simulated in player controlled F-16s? Edited June 2, 2022 by Northstar98 1 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted June 2, 2022 Author Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Northstar98 said: Going back to the GPS thing, could it be that Link 16 requires GPS time to function correctly (as in all sources need to be using the same precise time) and that this limitation is simulated in player controlled F-16s? I've heard of such stories IRL (in the Tomcast Podcast in reference to JTIDS on the F-14D), so I also wondered if this might cause issues here, but even then it should still work without GPS time if the aircraft time has been set correctly manually on the participating jets. Also why is this not an issue on the Hornet then? I mean, I'm totally fine with it being intended behaviour if it actually is intended, but then I would like to see a clear confirmation that F/F DL is not available on the Viper without GPS to make sure that this is not just a bug. Edited June 2, 2022 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 27 minutes ago, QuiGon said: I've heard of such stories IRL (in the Tomcast Podcast in reference to JTIDS on the F-14D), so I also wondered if this might cause issues here, but even then it should still work without GPS time if the aircraft time has been set correctly manually on the participating jets. Also why is this not an issue on the Hornet then? Yeah, I'm just trying to think of some reason why this would be the case. 27 minutes ago, QuiGon said: I mean, I'm totally fine with it being intended behaviour if it actually is intended, but then I would like to see a clear confirmation that F/F DL is not available on the Viper without GPS to make sure that this is not just a bug. Yeah, would be good to know the rationale for marking this as 'correct as is'. 1 Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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