correct as is Vipers don't show up on Hornet F/F DL

[QuiGon]

For some reason Vipers don't show up on the Hornet's DL in fighter/fighter mode (meaning no AWACS available). The Viper can see the Hornets on their DL, but not vice versa.

This is an issue that is especially evident and problematic on the BlueFlag 80s server, where both aircraft types fly on the same side and AWACS is not available, so the F/F DL to extremely important for coordination.

Is this a known issue?

Edit: Forgot to mention, that this issue only applys to human controlled aircraft in multiplayer.

Edited March 18, 2022 by QuiGon

[VTJS17_Fire]

If the aircrafts hardware is set for the 80s (like no GPS in the Hornet), Link16 should'nt be available, as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16

[QuiGon]

17 minutes ago, VTJS17_Fire said:

If the aircrafts hardware is set for the 80s (like no GPS in the Hornet), Link16 should'nt be available, as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16

But is that acutally and intentionally simulated? Or is that just how you want it to be?

[dorianR666]

14 hours ago, VTJS17_Fire said:

If the aircrafts hardware is set for the 80s

there is no such function in dcs

the aircraft is always the same, regardless of mission date

Edited March 17, 2022 by dorianR666

[QuiGon]

34 minutes ago, dorianR666 said:

there is no such function in dcs

the aircraft is always the same, regardless of mission date

 

Alright, that's what I thought.

Now as this is clarified, I would still love to have an answer for my original question: Why do Vipers not appear on the Hornet F/F DL?  Bug?

[VTJS17_Fire]

5 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

there is no such function in dcs

the aircraft is always the same, regardless of mission date

 

Erm, nope. That is not true.

If you set the mission date before 1996, the Hornet don't have GPS, for instance. Then, you just have INS for alignment and navigation.

That's why I'm arguing with the Link16 and time frame. But for the datalink, I don't know, if it's correct modelled, too.

[Cepheus76]

I would think that the chosen time frame shouldn't have an impact on Link 16 availability, since all the required components are, to my limited knowledge, installed on the aircrafts. GPS, on the other hand, relies on external components, i.e. the GPS satellites, which weren't available in the 80s.

Therefore, it may be possible that the OP found a bug,  since he reports that the Viper can see the Hornets, which implies that the Link 16 equipment is not deliberately disabled by choosing a certain date- But that are just my 2 Cents, of course.

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, VTJS17_Fire said:

That's why I'm arguing with the Link16 and time frame. But for the datalink, I don't know, if it's correct modelled, too.

I'm afraid you're on the wrong path here. There is no such restriction in DCS, that the availability of Link16 depends on the mission date.
In fact, Link 16 IS available in the described setting. Hornets can share data just fine between themselves as well as with AWACS and so can Vipers. The only thing that is not working is Vipers showing up on the Hornets data link, unless provided by AWACS.

So please stop derailing the topic. What you describe is really not the issue here.

[VTJS17_Fire]

I understand your point, QuiGon ... what I wanted to say is, that maybe the general possibility of Link16 is the bug, not the missing link between the Viper and the Hornet.

[toutenglisse]

22 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

...The only thing that is not working is Vipers showing up on the Hornets data link, unless provided by AWACS...

FWIW it works with AI Vipers... They show correctly on Hornet's datalink/SA page without AWACS. So it seems to be related to human controlled Vipers, maybe AI Vipers use a datalink option that is not enabled by default for Client/player IDK...

[QuiGon]

7 minutes ago, toutenglisse said:

FWIW it works with AI Vipers... They show correctly on Hornet's datalink/SA page without AWACS. So it seems to be related to human controlled Vipers, maybe AI Vipers use a datalink option that is not enabled by default for Client/player IDK...

Yeah, good point, I forgot to mention this. The issue is indeed only about human controlled aircraft.

[dorianR666]

5 hours ago, VTJS17_Fire said:

If you set the mission date before 1996, the Hornet don't have GPS, for instance

thats because of simulating the lack of satellites (also its 1994 in dcs iirc), not because different aircraft hardware. the hardware is always the same.

Edited March 17, 2022 by dorianR666

[Hulkbust44]

thats because of simulating the lack of satellites (also its 1994 in dcs iirc), not because different aircraft hardware. the hardware is always the same.

94'? Last I checked a few years ago it was 1986, was there an unannounced change?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[dorianR666]

4 minutes ago, Hulkbust44 said:

94'? Last I checked a few years ago it was 1986, was there an unannounced change?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

i cant test it right now but BN said so
 

 

[QuiGon]

A while ago I made a thread about Vipers not showing up on the Hornets data link through fighter-fighter DL (no AWACS present). There was no solution presented to the issue and as this issue continued to bother me I did some testing with my buddies and I think we found what exactly causes this issue:

The issue is actually not with the Hornet, but with the Viper: As soon as the mission date is pre-1994 the F/F DL of the Viper stops working. In our testing me and my buddies all flew Vipers in a test mission without AWACS. When the mission date is set after 1994, the F/F data link on the Viper is working fine, meaning Vipers can see each other on the HSD. If the mission date is set prior to 1994 the F/F data link on the Viper does not work, meaning Vipers can not see each other on the HSD. Interestingly, the Vipers can still see Hornets on the HSD through F/F data link, but not other Vipers (similarly Hornets can see other Hornets, but not the Vipers).

This is really frustrating when flying on servers like BlueFlag Syria which has a mission date of 1990 and no AWACS, meaning Vipers will never appear on the DL, only Hornets will.

Edit: I should mention that I focused on multiplayer and the interaction between player controlled aircraft here. I have not tested it with AI.

Edited June 2, 2022 by QuiGon

[TOViper]

This topic is marked with label "Correct as is".
Was the label placed before Quigon's post or thereafter?

 

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, TOViper said:

This topic is marked with label "Correct as is".
Was the label placed before Quigon's post or thereafter?

Huh, I do not recall having seen it before.

So just to be sure @BIGNEWY@NineLine: Is the behaviour I described in my previous post ("If the mission date is set prior to 1994 the F/F data link on the Viper does not work") intended? In other words: Is the Viper F/F DL not supposed to function if GPS is not available whereas the Hornet F/F DL does work in this situation?

Edited June 2, 2022 by QuiGon

[Northstar98]

Going back to the GPS thing, could it be that Link 16 requires GPS time to function correctly (as in all sources need to be using the same precise time) and that this limitation is simulated in player controlled F-16s?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Northstar98

[QuiGon]

42 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Going back to the GPS thing, could it be that Link 16 requires GPS time to function correctly (as in all sources need to be using the same precise time) and that this limitation is simulated in player controlled F-16s?

I've heard of such stories IRL (in the Tomcast Podcast in reference to JTIDS on the F-14D), so I also wondered if this might cause issues here, but even then it should still work without GPS time if the aircraft time has been set correctly manually on the participating jets. Also why is this not an issue on the Hornet then?

I mean, I'm totally fine with it being intended behaviour if it actually is intended, but then I would like to see a clear confirmation that F/F DL is not available on the Viper without GPS to make sure that this is not just a bug.

Edited June 2, 2022 by QuiGon

[Northstar98]

27 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

I've heard of such stories IRL (in the Tomcast Podcast in reference to JTIDS on the F-14D), so I also wondered if this might cause issues here, but even then it should still work without GPS time if the aircraft time has been set correctly manually on the participating jets. Also why is this not an issue on the Hornet then?

Yeah, I'm just trying to think of some reason why this would be the case.

27 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

I mean, I'm totally fine with it being intended behaviour if it actually is intended, but then I would like to see a clear confirmation that F/F DL is not available on the Viper without GPS to make sure that this is not just a bug.

Yeah, would be good to know the rationale for marking this as 'correct as is'.