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OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)


nikoel

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"Edit: I should clarify, this is with SteamVR with WMR set as OpenXR runtime in SteamVR."

I think the destructions mentioned to not use SteamVR at all?  Or am I not understanding your comment?

I'm running a very similar specced machine (I bit less really) and both the clarity and smoothness are significantly better.  The frametimes and framerate and very similar to what I was getting when running SteamVR...  but the clarity was immediately better and same with smoothness.

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9 minutes ago, edmuss said:

You don't need reprojection in OXR though, honestly.

You're rendering at 45fps and OXR is just repeating any spare frames up until it hits the 45hz, then it gets the tracking data and sends the frame to the headset.

Have you got any odd vsync applied in nvcpl for DCS?

You say I don't need reprojection in OXR, but when I play with it disabled and have +70 FPS it doesn't look great with my display refresh rate set to 90Hz because of the tearing, jittering, ghosting, whatever I should call it. No, VSync is disabled in DCS (Nvidia Control Panel is set to 3D Application controlled at the moment, but I have in the past had it disabled in control panel).

6 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

"Edit: I should clarify, this is with SteamVR with WMR set as OpenXR runtime in SteamVR."

I think the destructions mentioned to not use SteamVR at all?  Or am I not understanding your comment?

I'm running a very similar specced machine (I bit less really) and both the clarity and smoothness are significantly better.  The frametimes and framerate and very similar to what I was getting when running SteamVR...  but the clarity was immediately better and same with smoothness.

You misunderstood my comment. When doing the comparison, I used OpenXR without SteamVR, and when using SteamVR, WMR OXR is set as the OXR runtime within SteamVR. One inplementation of motion smoothing is better than the other, and I am noticing negligible performance difference between the two. I have edited for more clarity.


Edited by July
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Ah yes, I missed that bit.

That's why it's not behaving like OXR, you're not using OXR.

Now turn off steamvr, set up OXR and then see how it's running

edit: I think you've gotten crossed render APIs somewhere. The OXR image is rock solid at anything above 45fps.

🙂


Edited by edmuss

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13 minutes ago, edmuss said:

Ah yes, I missed that bit.

That's why it's not behaving like OXR, you're not using OXR.

Now turn off steamvr, set up OXR and then see how it's running

edit: I think you've gotten crossed render APIs somewhere. The OXR image is rock solid at anything above 45fps.

🙂

 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/openxr-runtime-for-steamvr-reverb-g2/456651/16

 

A good explanation showing API hierarchy between OXR and SteamVR. I am not using SteamVR's OXR implementation. I was using WMR OXR set as runtime in SteamVR. Then as per this thread, removed SteamVR from the equation and directly ran WMR OXR for DCS. I am getting OK image quality with WMR OXR (NO SteamVR) BUT there is significant tearing when not using reprojection, and with reprojection, tearing at the edges of my HMD that I don't get with SteamVR motion smoothing. I can try to take a video with my phone showcasing the difference if you'd like. Maybe I am doing something wrong.


Edited by July
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Thanks for the work everyone put into this! I just got set up and will do some initial testing VS my previous settings I got from: 

Im wondering tho, what settings in Openxr Toolkit people are using? Or is the scaling set to off?

Also, what settings are people using for the DCS specific nvidia control panel options?

Lastly, for anyone wondering - I tried the Simplex shaders and they seem to work with this setup (or at least not cause issues). So there’s that!

I will update soon when I have more time to compare but it looks pretty good so far. I love the idea of closing any extra programs running that I can.

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I'm not sure what's going on, but in 8 pages I think you're the only person that hasn't said that it's an improvement.

Presuming that you have the OXR Dev toolkit installed, OXR toolkit and the three files from the zip file installed correctly into the bin folder (openvrapi, opencomposite and the D3Dcompiler) then it should work fine. You might also need to add the updated DLL to the OXR toolkit install folder to allow the in-game menu to work.

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8 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I'm not sure what's going on, but in 8 pages I think you're the only person that hasn't said that it's an improvement.

Presuming that you have the OXR Dev toolkit installed, OXR toolkit and the three files from the zip file installed correctly into the bin folder (openvrapi, opencomposite and the D3Dcompiler) then it should work fine. You might also need to add the updated DLL to the OXR toolkit install folder to allow the in-game menu to work.

Am I the only one using motion smoothing? Surely I'm not the only one noticing the tearing. I have cleaned, repaired DCS like OP instructed us to. After placing the three files into my DCS bin folder, DCS now launches directly from the WMR portal, instead of opening SteamVR so I believe that's correct. I am able to also open the OXR Toolkit menu in game from the WMR menu. I have yet to try the Advanced Toolkit.

I believe I stated in my first post that I thought this was worth using if you weren't someone who used reprojection/smoothing and I stand by that based on what others have been saying. I don't doubt what others have been saying. I'm simply stating that personally, I can't stand it.


Edited by July
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@edmuss well thats just it, I've just done some testing and can say that I haven't found any improvement whatsoever. When using SteamVR at 100% render scale (and DCS settings turned way down), I get ~9-10ms frame time on PG when running 90fps. Under the extact same mission and same settings in DCS with OpenXR render scale set to 60% I'm nowhere close to being able to maintain 90fps (hovering around 80fps). Maybe I'm doing something wrong (or have a setting somewhere that I haven't configured correctly) but SteamVR seems to work much better for me. Admitedly the clarity is much better using OpenXR however. 

FYI running 3080ti and 12900k @5.2Ghz and Reverb G1


Edited by obious

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Well...  I'm not a VR guru at all but I can only tell you that with a fairly similar setup to yours (nvidia/G2) the improvement in smoothness and clarity were significant.  Not much improvement in performance directly...  as in framerate or frametimes...  But even with no real "performance" improvement the visual image and smoothness of the experience was very much improved anyway.  "Looking at the numbers" they're pretty similar...  but the experience is quite a bit better.  I think the answer as to why this is the case is explained earlier in the thread.  Something about OXR looking at the frame timing and if it decides a frame won't be completed in time for the next frame it stops processing that one, starts a new one for the next available timeslot and then uses the old frame with something like ASW to interpolate the frame and keep the experience smooth.

Honestly it appears that OXR has mostly divorced the output from the normally accepted requirements for frametime and framerate.  I've got motion smoothing disabled like the instructions suggested but it still appears to be doing SOMETHING to smooth motion.  It was soo smooth I started turning up options to see how good I could make it look at a still acceptable level of smooth...  I was actually able to turn on shadows and terrain shadows.  Not even just to flat...  but to "low" and "default" respectively.  I have never been able to play DCS with shadows enabled and have an even remotely acceptable experience.  I ended up turning shadows back off...  But it was SUPER close...  I think if I had been running a mission that didn't also have rain and broken clouds it would have been just fine.

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Unfortunately, my PC crashed for the third time after I started DCS. (opencomposite error ... Code: -1)
Since I installed OpenXR I was able to start DCS twice - that's not a good average.

My mouse then disappears and I have to switch off my PC.
That's why I also had to reinstall Voice Attack.

All in all, apparently not really mature yet....a pity, because the picture is really better and this trembling in the menus disappears in DCS.

But maybe someone has a tip for me.

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I have all DCS settings to high, apart from visibility and clouds to medium. 100% resolution, FFV enabled with no reprojection and no upscaling. I pull a solid 55-60fps on Caucasus with this and it looks glorious, perfectly stable image and no stutter.

As above, OXR goes about achieving a smooth image when compared to OVR (steamvr) in a completely different manner. Instead of trying to chase 90fps it just waits till the right time to display the image.

The performance uplift back to back steamvr to OXR for me was about 5ms which isn't massive, but the much improved image quality allows higher settings for the same performance and thus a much nicer overall experience.

I'll reiterate, I've not had any good experience of the OXR reprojection yet, for whatever reason it's not as stable as the wmr equivalent.

13 minutes ago, A.F. said:

Unfortunately, my PC crashed for the third time after I started DCS. (opencomposite error ... Code: -1)
Since I installed OpenXR I was able to start DCS twice - that's not a good average.

My mouse then disappears and I have to switch off my PC.
That's why I also had to reinstall Voice Attack.

All in all, apparently not really mature yet....a pity, because the picture is really better and this trembling in the menus disappears in DCS.

But maybe someone has a tip for me.

What version of Windows are you running?

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1 minute ago, edmuss said:

I have all DCS settings to high, apart from visibility and clouds to medium. 100% resolution, FFV enabled with no reprojection and no upscaling. I pull a solid 55-60fps on Caucasus with this and it looks glorious, perfectly stable image and no stutter.

As above, OXR goes about achieving a smooth image when compared to OVR (steamvr) in a completely different manner. Instead of trying to chase 90fps it just waits till the right time to display the image.

The performance uplift back to back steamvr to OXR for me was about 5ms which isn't massive, but the much improved image quality allows higher settings for the same performance and thus a much nicer overall experience.

I'll reiterate, I've not had any good experience of the OXR reprojection yet, for whatever reason it's not as stable as the wmr equivalent.

I'll try giving it another go with the OpenXR Toolkit installed. Also, do you have another invite link to the discord that was linked at the beginning of this thread? I think the OP's invite link is expired and/or not working.

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22 minutes ago, July said:

Am I the only one using motion smoothing? Surely I'm not the only one noticing the tearing. I have cleaned, repaired DCS like OP instructed us to. After placing the three files into my DCS bin folder, DCS now launches directly from the WMR portal, instead of opening SteamVR so I believe that's correct. I am able to also open the OXR Toolkit menu in game from the WMR menu. I have yet to try the Advanced Toolkit.

Regarding motion smoothing, I can also tell that the one in OXR, when enabled, is not as good as in SteamVR, with more tearing and distortions visible. Maybe the proxy library is not sending all the needed data. 

You're not the only one who said there's no difference on his system. To me it looks the same without reprojection, with FPS usually hovering between 50-70, and typical stuttering. Either I'm missing some settings, or just different people have different perception levels with this stuff. 

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4 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I have all DCS settings to high, apart from visibility and clouds to medium. 100% resolution, FFV enabled with no reprojection and no upscaling. I pull a solid 55-60fps on Caucasus with this and it looks glorious, perfectly stable image and no stutter.

Interesting, how are you finding 55-60fps as smooth? Moving my head left-to-right in the F-18 was all jittery, even at 80fps.  

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I wonder that too. What people try to describe here is simply not possible, headsets are not Variable Refresh Rate displays, and holding the same frame much longer than the other because it missed the display refresh "tick" is the definition of stutter.

3-p_1100.webp


Edited by some1

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11 minutes ago, obious said:

Interesting, how are you finding 55-60fps as smooth? Moving my head left-to-right in the F-18 was all jittery, even at 80fps.  

Exactly how I've been seeing things. A good test for everyone looking at this thread with the OXR workaround installed, try a free flight mission on Syria in a Jet, and aileron roll past one of the towns with many buildings. I tried this in the F-16C and the buildings turned into a stuttery mess, with reprojection turned OFF and maintaining 60-80 FPS.

Maybe others are saying that OXR provides smoother experience compared to a similar SteamVR motion smoothing OFF experience? Which I don't doubt, I do think things look nicer with OXR and no SteamVR passthrough.


Edited by July
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48 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I'm not sure what's going on, but in 8 pages I think you're the only person that hasn't said that it's an improvement.

Presuming that you have the OXR Dev toolkit installed, OXR toolkit and the three files from the zip file installed correctly into the bin folder (openvrapi, opencomposite and the D3Dcompiler) then it should work fine. You might also need to add the updated DLL to the OXR toolkit install folder to allow the in-game menu to work.

I think if you look through the pages, you'd see he is not the only one using motion smoothing - myself included. The experience is not smooth at all for me without reprojection on, and even when enabled, does not appear as smooth as the SteamVR equivalent. I'm having very similar results to @July . I believe some people may not even realize they have it on, as for me, motion reproj was set to auto by default upon installing OpenXR Tools.

The image quality seems good with OXR for me, but the lack of suitable motion smoothing is an experience killer for me.

FYI, i'm not saying others aren't getting good results - in fact i'm jealous. Perhaps all these ppl are just not as sensitive to lower frame rates? I dunno, but it seems ludicrous to me that 55fps could appear smooth - particularly with side-to-side head movement. I've never wanted to be more wrong......

For what it's worth i'm running 9900K/RTX3070ti/64GB ddR4 on the G2


Edited by FiringPin
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3 hours ago, A.F. said:

Everything seems to work, but my voice attack no longer works.
The microphone of the G2 is apparently not recognised.

Does anyone have an explanation for this?

 

Edit: I have it !

 

I can't say that I have encountered this issue. I've been using VoiceAttack (VAICOM) without issue since using this mod.

Regards,

Paul "Dodge / LondonLad"

 

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1 hour ago, peachmonkey said:

@nikoel and others here:

do you happen to know how to adjust the World Scale in this OpenCompositeACC mod?  Looking at their release information for version v0.3.1 it says "Support for setting IPD offset (World Scale)" yet there are no instructions on how to achieve it...

Yes. It’s called IPD inside the DCS VR settings (badly named). This is what controls world scale and therefore this feature is not needed 

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Has anybody tried this with an Samsung Odyssey? I'm running slightly older equipment. 1080ti and a rig basically put together in 2017. Just wondering if this is worth it as some of it (the talk about masks and stuff) is frankly beyond me and the last thing I want is error messages, my mic getting turned off (as some users have noted), my mouse disappearing, etc and then not being savvy enough to reverse the damage without having to completely reinstall everything. 

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13 minutes ago, A.F. said:

Windows 10 21H2

Also simshaker for aviators no longer works.  
This is not acceptable to me.

works fine for me, with the 0.6 version.  Later today, I'll be checking out 0.61

I'm using the beta version of SSA.  needing that to get the updates for the Apache.


Edited by javelina1

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You guys have read and understand that you can simply lock 45FPS via OpenXR Toolkit and it will have the motion smoothening disabled but the frame rate cap enabled so you’re not experiencing the spikes…?!

With that feature off there is still no way of getting 60 or 70FPS. You are not seeing it. However the extra overhead does help and you will get the juiciest frame as selected by OpenXR

The frametimes will always be at 19-21ms because you’re locked at 45FPS. Then they will go to 11ms when you hit 90FPS

Please re-read my blob on performance as I have made it more blunt because some of yas reaaaaaally need to hear what I’ve said. Or you know, don’t. I’m not your mum  


Edited by nikoel
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18 minutes ago, July said:

Exactly how I've been seeing things. A good test for everyone looking at this thread, try a free flight mission on Syria in a Jet, and aileron roll past one of the towns with many buildings. I tried this in the F-16C and the buildings turned into a stuttery mess, with reprojection turned OFF and maintaining 60-80 FPS.

That's ghosting sir.

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12 minutes ago, A.F. said:

Windows 10 21H2

Also simshaker for aviators no longer works.  
This is not acceptable to me.

Should be ok with the windows version then.

Surely SSA isn't tied into the steamvr API? More likely something else missing due to cleaning DCS?

2 minutes ago, Dooker said:

Has anybody tried this with an Samsung Odyssey? I'm running slightly older equipment. 1080ti and a rig basically put together in 2017. Just wondering if this is worth it as some of it (the talk about masks and stuff) is frankly beyond me and the last thing I want is error messages, my mic getting turned off (as some users have noted), my mouse disappearing, etc and then not being savvy enough to reverse the damage without having to completely reinstall everything. 

If you use the OVGME package then you can switch from OXR to SVR in half a second if that.

It might be worth a go, after all a G2 is only really a first generation WMR headset on steroids. You can leave the OXR toolkits installed and still revert back to steamvr with no bother, it's just three files in the bin folder that get switched out.

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