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OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)


nikoel

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9 hours ago, Pikey said:

I'm so torn by OpenXR.
It gives and takes and I think its just having not enough hardware that's letting me down. i5 10600K and 2080S. I reinstalled things and spent more time using it than benchmarking it and I warmed to it.

 

I have similarish hardware - i5 8600K and 2080Ti

For SP I have found OpenXR great - those missions where it dips under 45 in SteamVR now run nice and smoothly at 30fps in OpenXR and it looks better too.

However, it tends to be at 30 most of the time whereas with SteamVR I would be getting 45 most of the time so it definitely is losing FPS. For me it doesn't matter as 30 is ok but I fully understand in MP this will dropping below 30 and then it really is an issue.

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9 hours ago, dburne said:

I personally am not going to mess with all the muss and fuss of getting a mod to work decently with DCS for Open XR. However I would absolutely love to see ED implement native Open XR support. It just has so many advantages to it.

I think it looks more daunting as this thread has gone through discovering all the pitfalls but it is pretty straightforward to try it and putting it back. I guess the risk is there is a new set of things to fiddle with but simply getting it working with your devices seems well covered now. Anyway I always like your reviews so you should do it 🙂

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13 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

I have similarish hardware - i5 8600K and 2080Ti

For SP I have found OpenXR great - those missions where it dips under 45 in SteamVR now run nice and smoothly at 30fps in OpenXR and it looks better too.

However, it tends to be at 30 most of the time whereas with SteamVR I would be getting 45 most of the time so it definitely is losing FPS. For me it doesn't matter as 30 is ok but I fully understand in MP this will dropping below 30 and then it really is an issue.

Yeah its close... I think my conclusion is that if you have the system to support it, its superior, with the lack of steamVR items like fpsVR included in that statement, but for MP and lower specs  it's ending up losing out on the grunt to carry it up to minimum FPS play. It definitely tackles texture related nonsense, i've even found it more stable with an old bug/thread where swapping cockpits would eventually break SteamVR and cause a black screen. It's really killing me, but the actual result when trying to play on Blueflag is that the overcompensation on smoothness ends up looking like your HMD turned into an eel swimming through jelly. Super sad about this because it tackles nearly all the basic issues with SteamVR. The irony is that if you take down the quality settings it doesn't really affect OpenXR like it does SteamVR. OpenVR remains very stable on frames, both up and down. For example I cant get it over 55/60 FPS and Steam would hit 90 in game, and going lower, SteamVR recovers quickly from troughs of poor performances, where OpenXR seems stuck in the mud.  It's like SteamVR took a chill pill.

Long wait until 3xxx series GPU are acceptable price for me. But people should really ignore the noise in the thread and just follow the instructions - it's one quick default install and swap three files into your DCS directory, how that can be screwed up I just don't know, also the OP didn't do any favours with the conversation, people don't read that, apparently over 4 lines and you are passive-aggressive these days...


Edited by Pikey
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6 minutes ago, Pikey said:

Yeah its close... I think my conclusion is that if you have the system to support it, its superior, with the lack of steamVR items like fpsVR included in that statement, but for MP and lower spects  it's ending up losing out on the grunt to carry it up to minimum FPS play. It definitely tackles texture related nonsense, i've even found it more stable with an old bug/thread where swapping cickpits would eventually break SteamVR and cause a black screen. It's really killing me, but the actual result when trying to play on Blueflag is that the overcompensation on smoothness ends up looking like your HMD turned into an eel swimming through jelly. Super sad about this because it tackles nearly all the basic issues with SteamVR. The irony is that if you take down the quality settings it doesn't really affect OpenXR like it does SteamVR. OpenVR remains very stable on frames, both up and down. For example I cant get it over 55/60 FPS and Steam would hit 90 in game, and going lower, SteamVR recovers quickly from troughs of poor performances, where OpenXR seems stuck in the mud.  It's like SteamVR took a chill pill.

Long wait until 3xxx series GPU are acceptable price for me. But people should really ignore the noise in the thread and just follow the instructions - it's one quick default install and swap three files into your DCS directory, how that can be screwed up I just don't know, also the OP didn't do any favours with the conversation, people don't read that, apparently over 4 lines and you are passive-aggressive these days...

The reprojection implementation is still under development and in certain instances not as good as steamvr. However it's not far off, if you've got eels in jelly (a pretty good analogy!) then try resetting the openxr runtime.

In the steamvr settings/developer the openxr runtime will be set to WMR, click the button to set it to steamvr and then close it all down. Open up WMRP and it should put up a message saying that WMR isn't the openxr runtime and click the button to fix it.

Doing the above actually straightened out about 95% of the reprojection issues for me; it shouldn't have done anything but it does. It's still not as good as steamvr for rotor blade shadows or very low fps (down in the 22hz bracket) where it still bubbles but the devs are aware of the issue and will be working on it 🙂

I've witnessed the reprojection getting such in a low bracket as well, not very often but it's something that I'll be looking into trying to troubleshoot when I've figured out how to make it repeatable.

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6 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

@nikoel PM me your paypal address please. I owe you a coffee/beer for all your effort in helping everyone with this and all the updated support. I have just tried this and WOW! DCS is smooth. 

What I found interesting is that I've been able to increase my settings, and lower my FPS - and get a better experience with this than SteamVR.  In SteamVR I was aiming for 45fps. (I had to have a lot of low settings for that!). And even then, things weren't always smooth - especially if there were times where it dropped below 45.

Trying this, I'm only running at 30FPS, but it's smooth as silk. This with a HP Gen 1 headset, running at 100% res, on a 2080S.  30FPS seems 'faster' and smoother in this than 45FPS in SteamVR. (I'm also not sure if I did something wrong in SteamVR, because it would never lock to 30FPS - it would aim for 45, otherwise give 'best option' (unless I changed from 90hz to 60hz which I wasn't interested in)) - whereas this seems to automatically drop from 45 to 30fps and still give a great experience.

I haven't experimented enough to know whether I get better performance (as in FPS, etc) on the same settings - but honestly - I don't care. The end experience is better and smoother at 30fps than SteamVR at 45fps. Thank you! 

(And don't forget that PM) 😉

Thank you for the kind offer, but the real MVP is Jabbah and mbuccia for they are the ones who took time to develop and explain everything to us. He is the one who deserves the praise and the beer. Hit him up with your success; I'm sure he will appreciate it

I'm glad it's working for you so well

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Does this require WMR? I run an Aero which does not and I really don't want it back on my system. I read the first post and that was not clear to me.


Edited by dburne

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1 minute ago, dburne said:

Does this require WMR? I run an Aero which does not and I really don't want it back on my system. I read the first post and that was not clear to me.

 

I believe it runs from varjo base?

Check the separate varjo implementation thread because as you quite rightly pointed out, you don't have WMR 🙂

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1 minute ago, edmuss said:

I believe it runs from varjo base?

Check the separate varjo implementation thread because as you quite rightly pointed out, you don't have WMR 🙂

Ok yeah just saw that thread, will check it out from there thanks.  I knew that already just not fully awake yet lol.


Edited by dburne
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Thank you to everyone that's been involved in this.  Over the last few days, I've read through this thread and experimented on my own.  I have a reasonably high-end system but I've always struggled to reach the smoothness that others have described.  In some cases I suppose, with the settings bottomed out I've had DCS running completely smooth in VR but it to me, looks like kaka.  Smooth kaka, but kaka none the less.  

So, I have typically settled for a compromise in Steam VR/DCS settings.  Reasonable looking quality but is ok performance.  Playable, but I've always had stutters when looking at the ground etc.  I was typically getting an average of 40FPS according to FPSVR.  Always had trouble hitting 45.  Motion reprojection in SteamVR picked up the slack.

Now, using OpenXR, with all of the stuff installed as per instructions, I'm finding that I'm getting better performance with motion reprojection off then I do with SteamVR and MR on at the same settings.  I'm typically hitting 45FPS most of the time in OpenXR.  There is still some stuttering here and there but all in all, it looks smoother to me.

When I turn on motion reprojection in OpenXR, it becomes completely smooth in most areas.  In fact, I was elated because it's the way I always wanted it to run.  However, I too have the same bubbly / swimming artifacts with MR turned on.  The HUD, even parts of the cockpit edges swim and distort as I fly through clouds for example, or even when taxiing.  I hope that these issues can be worked through.  If so, this will be completely awesome.  I've tried the runtime switch a couple of times as it was described without a change.  It seemed to have no effect on my system.

As it is now, for me personally, SteavVR is out of a job.  At least for DCS.  This is much easier to adjust, faster, and it simply works.  The fact that it works better than SteamVR for me is icing on the cake.  I don't play multi-player and just enjoy flying my own missions.  So again, great job to everyone I'm very excited to see this continue to improve!

 

One question for clarities sake.  I haven't seen it posted anywhere that a specific version of DCS is required.  I presume, that this works in a similar manner to Reshade in that, it didn't care if the DCS version changes, it's just a part of the rendering pipeline when installed.  The concern being, when there is an Open Beta update, will this need to be updated as well?  Or will it just continue to work as is?  Barring some change to the way DCS handled rendering of course.  When Vulcan comes out, it wouldn't work for example.

 

Thank you,


Edited by Nightstorm
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13 minutes ago, Nightstorm said:

Thank you to everyone that's been involved in this.  Over the last few days, I've read through this thread and experimented on my own.  I have a reasonably high-end system but I've always struggled to reach the smoothness that others have described.  In some cases I suppose, with the settings bottomed out I've had DCS running completely smooth in VR but it to me, looks like kaka.  Smooth kaka, but kaka none the less.  

So, I have typically settled for a compromise in Steam VR/DCS settings.  Reasonable looking quality but is ok performance.  Playable, but I've always had stutters when looking at the ground etc.  I was typically getting an average of 40FPS according to FPSVR.  Always had trouble hitting 45.  Motion reprojection in SteamVR picked up the slack.

Now, using OpenXR, with all of the stuff installed as per instructions, I'm finding that I'm getting better performance with motion reprojection off then I do with SteamVR and MR on at the same settings.  I'm typically hitting 45FPS most of the time in OpenXR.  There is still some stuttering here and there but all in all, it looks smoother to me.

When I turn on motion reprojection in OpenXR, it becomes completely smooth in most areas.  In fact, I was elated because it's the way I always wanted it to run.  However, I too have the same bubbly / swimming artifacts with MR turned on.  The HUD, even parts of the cockpit edges swim and distort as I fly through clouds for example, or even when taxiing.  I hope that these issues can be worked through.  If so, this will be completely awesome.  I've tried the runtime switch a couple of times as it was described without a change.  It seemed to have no effect on my system.

As it is now, for me personally, SteavVR is out of a job.  At least for DCS.  This is much easier to adjust, faster, and it simply works.  The fact that it works better than SteamVR for me is icing on the cake.  I don't play multi-player and just enjoy flying my own missions.  So again, great job to everyone I'm very excited to see this continue to improve!

 

One question for clarities sake.  I haven't seen it posted anywhere that a specific version of DCS is required.  I presume, that this works in a similar manner to Reshade in that, it didn't care if the DCS version changes, it's just a part of the rendering pipeline when installed.  The concern being, when there is an Open Beta update, will this need to be updated as well?  Or will it just continue to work as is?  Barring some change to the way DCS handled rendering of course.  When Vulcan comes out, it wouldn't work for example.

 

Thank you,

 

To answer your questions - its agnostic to updates. In a nutshell Jabbah has created a translator file that talks to OpenXR, this is what the file does primarily. However it's likely that the future update may overwrite/clean the files you have replaced inside the bin folder. I encourage you to back them up and after DCS completes the update pop the three files back in afterwards

This will continue to be the case until the implementation of Vulkan. Unfortunately then it's likely we may lose this mod


Edited by nikoel
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21 minutes ago, nikoel said:

To answer your questions - its agnostic to updates. In a nutshell Jabbah has created a translator file that talks to OpenXR, this is what the file does primarily. However it's likely that the future update may overwrite/clean the files you have replaced inside the bin folder. I encourage you to back them up and after DCS completes the update pop the three files back in afterwards

This will continue to be the case until the implementation of Vulkan. Unfortunately then it's likely we may lose this mod

 

Thank you.  That's what I thought the case was.  I install the mod via OvGME and will treat it the same as all other mods when DCS is updated.  That's good news.  That means this will likely hold us over until the day that Vulan is implemented, whenever that will be 😉

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17 minutes ago, Nightstorm said:

Thank you.  That's what I thought the case was.  I install the mod via OvGME and will treat it the same as all other mods when DCS is updated.  That's good news.  That means this will likely hold us over until the day that Vulan is implemented, whenever that will be 😉

exactly!  🙂

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I did this yesterday using the OVGME Method. Any way to tell it worked? Didnt note any difference in FPS or clarity. But I lost my reshare 4.9 which made my grafics less milky/foggy and what is worse: I cant use VRNecksaver anymore because I m not allowed to start SteamVR before or after launch of DCS. Before I try to get something out of OpenXR: Is there anything I can do about it? How can I verify OpenXR works correctly? Can you revert by just deactivating the Mod in OVGME?

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Hi,
I have freshly installed Windows 10, freshly installed DCS, then copied the three files openvr_api, opencomposite, D3DCompiler_47 into the bin folder, then made the settings in the OpenXR Developer Tools, then started DCS. Everything works.

Then I installed the OpenXR Toolkit. 
When I start OpenXR Toolkit, this error is displayed:

 

9DF0C9D2-E389-4497-906D-028A7AC86756.png

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18 minutes ago, Bisch said:

I did this yesterday using the OVGME Method. Any way to tell it worked? Didnt note any difference in FPS or clarity. But I lost my reshare 4.9 which made my grafics less milky/foggy and what is worse: I cant use VRNecksaver anymore because I m not allowed to start SteamVR before or after launch of DCS. Before I try to get something out of OpenXR: Is there anything I can do about it? How can I verify OpenXR works correctly? Can you revert by just deactivating the Mod in OVGME?

If haze is your primary reason for running Reshade (like me ), try running Taz's fix on Kegety's shader mod. He included a haze fix.

https://forum.dcs.world/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=259228&key=122f872847c371bc09ca14830b8a4102

I haven't used VRNS in a while, will check if it's working on mine later. OpenXR should show a user interface in DCS if running. I believe the default to trigger it is Ctrl+F2.

Make sure you don't have a DCS function bound to that. You can also set your own from the OXR companion app.

I set mine to Alt+up down left right

 

 

oxrca.JPG


Edited by Sr.

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Is there an implementation of this for the Vive. I scrolled through but didnt see anything about it, have an older headset 1070ti, 32gb DDR4 ram, and an intel 8700k. I can get it to work decently. any improvement, even a couple of % points would help. Upgrade is pending on the machine. However the headset will remain sadly for a while.

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29 minutes ago, A.F. said:

Hi,
I have freshly installed Windows 10, freshly installed DCS, then copied the three files openvr_api, opencomposite, D3DCompiler_47 into the bin folder, then made the settings in the OpenXR Developer Tools, then started DCS. Everything works.

Then I installed the OpenXR Toolkit. 
When I start OpenXR Toolkit, this error is displayed:

 

9DF0C9D2-E389-4497-906D-028A7AC86756.png

I have excactly the same problem with Windows 11, clean install. This is my second system, works perfectly with win10 that I use mainly.

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15 minutes ago, fullwoody said:

Is there an implementation of this for the Vive. I scrolled through but didnt see anything about it, have an older headset 1070ti, 32gb DDR4 ram, and an intel 8700k. I can get it to work decently. any improvement, even a couple of % points would help. Upgrade is pending on the machine. However the headset will remain sadly for a while.

Not sure if it would work. Vive uses SteamVR and their own software layer.

I will say though, for the Vive Cosmos Elite I started with, this was the best upgrade ever.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/747729199/best-selling-gear-vr-lens-mod-upgrade

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And again all these posts still leads me to believe I am better off just staying with my virgin install of DCS which runs surprisingly well in my Aero. 

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vor 25 Minuten schrieb winghunter:

looks like a firewall issue, openXR is checking if its up to date and cant connect to remote host.

 

Hi,
and can this have anything to do with Norton antivirus software?

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6 minutes ago, dburne said:

And again all these posts still leads me to believe I am better off just staying with my virgin install of DCS which runs surprisingly well in my Aero. 

I haven't had any of the issues. Installed and worked first try. The elimination of SteamVR is what I wanted most and it brought some great things with it. It doesn't take more than a couple of minutes to install: copy the listed files, backup the original files, paste in the listed files. I did run the repair prior to installation per the procedure, so that takes some time, but it was worth the wait.

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28 minutes ago, Kril_FC said:

Guys, get this error, how can i fix it?

252.JPG

Are you "Jabbah"?

 

 

Capture.JPG


Edited by Sr.

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9 minutes ago, A.F. said:

Hi,
and can this have anything to do with Norton antivirus software?

If thats set as your firewall, then yes. You need to allow openXR tools internet access, wether you have norton or windows firewall.

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