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OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)


nikoel

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19 minutes ago, exil said:

I don't get it? So you are still using SteamVR? But with an OXR runtime?

Yes, that is what he did. The mod is meant to bypass SteamVR and now he set SteamVR as OpenXR runtime. Gains probably reduced to 0.

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49 minutes ago, exil said:

I don't get it? So you are still using SteamVR? But with an OXR runtime?

No, I just changed the OXR runtime in SVR to SVR and then set it back to WMR.

No one is quite sure what has changed and by all accounts the changes I've carried out shouldn't have had the effect that they did but then it now works as anticipated.

Additionally, previously I could never get the OXR toolkit demo to work, it does so now. Also I'm getting more stable loading screens, they never juddered before but would occasionally black out for a second or two, now it's smooth loading bar all the time.

Something was out of whack with my WMR I think.

 

28 minutes ago, Marco Schaap said:

Yes, that is what he did. The mod is meant to bypass SteamVR and now he set SteamVR as OpenXR runtime. Gains probably reduced to 0.

No it's not.  I'm not using SVR with DCS at all, all running through WMR with OXR and it's now running perfectly.

DCS 100% resolution, 90Hz motion reprojection always on and unlocked, graphics settings to high, awesome visuals and completely smooth 🙂

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1 hour ago, Hadeda said:

Having compared OpenXR on both a CPU and GPU limited pc, my sense is you see the most profound effect where it’s GPU limited, as it seems to be able to fully utilise the card. If your CPU is bottlenecking it doesn’t add much benefit. SteamVR is pretty poor at making the most of a high end graphics card. 

I'm not too sure that OXR benefits one scenario over the other particularly, obviously if you have a 3090 on an AMD bulldozer CPU then your CPU will be dragging everything down; I think most people on here have got pretty balanced systems though.

I am running my GPU to the limit and when increasing settings I generally get a corresponding reduction in performance; this is based on low CPU workloads in DCS (A10C easy instant action is my go to comparison benchmark) so gives a fairly accurate portrayal of GPU performance/tuning.  Now if I had a beefier GPU then I would be running the same settings just getting much higher FPS.

I would agree that this basically stops the halo GPUs being hamgstrung for performance whilst allowing midrange hardware to give a much better experience.

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22 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

I have the same issue, I have found no fix yet

 

 

Same here - I have to restart DCS 5-10 times until it eventually loads. When it's running, it's great. Also the OpenXRToolkit is working. It's just, not starting very persistently. The crash is more persistent. Also having the installation on another drive than C:\

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1 hour ago, edmuss said:

No, I just changed the OXR runtime in SVR to SVR and then set it back to WMR.

No one is quite sure what has changed and by all accounts the changes I've carried out shouldn't have had the effect that they did but then it now works as anticipated.

Additionally, previously I could never get the OXR toolkit demo to work, it does so now. Also I'm getting more stable loading screens, they never juddered before but would occasionally black out for a second or two, now it's smooth loading bar all the time.

Something was out of whack with my WMR I think.

 

No it's not.  I'm not using SVR with DCS at all, all running through WMR with OXR and it's now running perfectly.

DCS 100% resolution, 90Hz motion reprojection always on and unlocked, graphics settings to high, awesome visuals and completely smooth 🙂

Roger, got it! But where then do you set motion reprojection to on? In the OXR Toolkit with Ctrl+F2? 

Sorry for the dumb question but this is somehow confusing 😂

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23 hours ago, edmuss said:

I think you might be struggling to run a reverb at 100% with a 1080ti, I suspect that your framerates will be too low to sustain smooth image without motion reprojection.  Try dropping the render resolution to 50-60% and see if it pulls the frames up enough to get it smooth.  I start to see slight stutter when looking sideways out of the cockpit when the framerate drops below 45 fps but I'm typically at 55 fps minimum so it's not an issue 🙂

If you set the render resolution to default in OXR dev toolkit it will set a recommended resolution based on your quantity of vram, for my 8gb 3070 it sets it a little above 60% and suprisingly it doesn't actually look bad (certainly better than steamvr does at 60%) and gains me around 25fps.  I'm still jumping between 100% MSAA off and 60% default with MSAA on, I get more peformance on default and with less aliasing.

Obviously there might be a bit of clash of technologies with the automatic vram calculation, your 11gb 1080ti will give a higher recommended resolution than my 8gb 3070 but you can argue all day long that a 3070 is a much faster gpu.  The vram calculation is based upon the worst case of all back buffers with 4x MSAA applied shouldn't exceed 10% of total vram.

Have a play with it, you can always reset things if it goes tits up 😄

edit: of course there's nothing stopping you enabling motion reprojection, personally I've not managed to get it to work properly yet as it artifacts more than it should do but I'm looking to sort it out if I can.  Best practise is to set it to always on in OXR dev toolkit and then use the ingame OXR toolkit menu to set the reprojection rate that you want to use.

 

I'm actually delighted with how my 1080ti 11Gb performs now in DCS. OXR Dev tools is showing 100% 3156x3088 and OXRTK also 100% 3156x3088 on a G2. I have textures 'High' and MSAA 4x. With these settings I'm seeing 30+ FPS (MR off) and great cockpit clarity in the Spit and a pretty smooth ride, with hardly any jittering at all when at low level looking sideways, and, best of all, no shimmering. This mod has completely reawakend my interest in DCS. If only MSFS came anywhere near this, i'd be even happier.


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1 hour ago, edmuss said:

DCS 100% resolution, 90Hz motion reprojection always on and unlocked, graphics settings to high, awesome visuals and completely smooth 🙂

Can I ask what you mean by 90Hz motion repro always on and unlocked? Have you forced motion repro to ‘always on’ in OXR settings and the ‘unlocked’ setting you’re talking about is somewhere else?

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb obious:

Can I ask what you mean by 90Hz motion repro always on and unlocked? Have you forced motion repro to ‘always on’ in OXR settings and the ‘unlocked’ setting you’re talking about is somewhere else?

I think "unlocked" refers to OpenXR Toolkit Overlay.

"Always on" refers to the developer tools from the Microsoft Store.


Edited by Sile
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20 minutes ago, exil said:

Roger, got it! But where then do you set motion reprojection to on? In the OXR Toolkit with Ctrl+F2? 

Sorry for the dumb question but this is somehow confusing 😂

There is never a dumb question 🙂

Use the OXR Dev Toolkit to force reprojection always on and then set it to unlocked with the ingame OXR Toolkit menu (Ctrl+F2 or whatever you've bound it to).  Having it unlocked means that when above refresh rate it will disengage and then it's free to step down in fractions of the refresh rate as and when required.  Because I CANNOT achieve 90Hz with my settings it's locked down to 45fps via reprojection and then if my frametimes go over 22ms (45fps) it locks down to 30fps via reprojection and is still butter smooth.  Steamvr doesn't do this stepdown and once you go over 22ms it turns off altogether and turns into a stutterfest.

2 minutes ago, obious said:

Can I ask what you mean by 90Hz motion repro always on and unlocked? Have you forced motion repro to ‘always on’ in OXR settings and the ‘unlocked’ setting you’re talking about is somewhere else?

Always on is in the dev toolkit, unlocked is in the ingame menu (as above). The locked reprojection rates forces it to not step down when needed so in my opinion isn't such a good solution.

5 minutes ago, Sile said:

I think "unlocked" refers to OpenXR Toolkit Overlay.

"Always on" refers to the developer tools from the Microsoft Store.

 

^^^^Exactly this 🙂

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I was having the same issue.

I think the menu is off screen in g2 at 100%...can kind of see something upper left corner.

Using ctrl and arrows for menu.

I have set openxr for wmr tools custom render scale at 70% and the menu appears.

-220 pixels to correct double image

 

13 hours ago, Sr. said:

I just tried a rip & replace of WMR, and the entire HP G2 setup... still no dice.

 

We have different GPUs, so at least I can scratch GPU or driver version off the list

This is beyond aggravating.

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Sr. said:

Guess not even Revo can get completely rid of it.
Before I uninstalled I changed the menu hot keys keys to non defaults, just to see if new install would revert back to the f2, f3 etc keys...
Ripped it out by the roots, all files etc using Revo.

Reinstalled... interface still configured with the key options I had set.

 

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7 minutes ago, aceviper said:

I was having the same issue.

I think the menu is off screen in g2 at 100%...can kind of see something upper left corner.

Using ctrl and arrows for menu.

I have set openxr for wmr tools custom render scale at 70% and the menu appears.

-220 pixels to correct double image

 

 

 

The issue was solved. @Sr. said he will post the solution for those who need it

Also, the file to get the OpenXR Toolkit menu back is still required even after 0.6.1

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I've owned my G2 since September last year and have toyed with it a little here and there, never quite completely happy with the performance and the graphical fidelity.

 

Thanks to this thread, I've been flying in VR all week and it's glorious!  Thanks guys, I'm very happy with the performance now!

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So if I understand correctly, I could completely forget about Steam and everything Steam-related with this ?

(This PC is dedicated to ONLY DCS, and some tools like Scratchpad, SRS and VoiceAttack)

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I spent a great deal of time benchmarking this and I can find no benefit and only loss of FPS. For sure it is working, and I dont have stability issues or black screens. SteamVR remains off and the game actually loads a lot faster. (in one test, 45s faster) I've used two builds of DCS to test and finally I get consistent results with them, using PD 1.0 and the VR preset. Only FPS is recorded, it's taken directly from the game programmatically in the same way for each test.

As well as testing on two builds, I have reverted changes backwards and forwards on the same build and obtained the exact same figures before, and after removing the changes and then after again. It's entirely consistent.

The scene I use to test is a track file, so there is almost un affected GPU frametime by CPU bottleneck. The scene is 5 minutes and covers some cockpit, external, city and woodland shots across the Caucasus. Frames are reecorded via script from the game. The Headset remains motionless on the desk throughout.

I was quite disappointed since I wanted this to be a magic fix. I am very happy someone is working on this technique. I don't know the developers and have no reason to contradict them. I have not done this work in any official cpactiy as a tester, just as a curious individual.

I remain open to tweaking and looking at this in the future if ther eare substantial changes, however at this point I find the changes quite damaging to DCS performance and will not be using them. It's possible that something isn't correctly configured, however the files replaced clearly do something to get it working without SteamVR, good luck with you own findings!

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24 minutes ago, Pikey said:

I spent a great deal of time benchmarking this and I can find no benefit and only loss of FPS. For sure it is working, and I dont have stability issues or black screens. SteamVR remains off and the game actually loads a lot faster. (in one test, 45s faster) I've used two builds of DCS to test and finally I get consistent results with them, using PD 1.0 and the VR preset. Only FPS is recorded, it's taken directly from the game programmatically in the same way for each test.

As well as testing on two builds, I have reverted changes backwards and forwards on the same build and obtained the exact same figures before, and after removing the changes and then after again. It's entirely consistent.

The scene I use to test is a track file, so there is almost un affected GPU frametime by CPU bottleneck. The scene is 5 minutes and covers some cockpit, external, city and woodland shots across the Caucasus. Frames are reecorded via script from the game. The Headset remains motionless on the desk throughout.

I was quite disappointed since I wanted this to be a magic fix. I am very happy someone is working on this technique. I don't know the developers and have no reason to contradict them. I have not done this work in any official cpactiy as a tester, just as a curious individual.

I remain open to tweaking and looking at this in the future if ther eare substantial changes, however at this point I find the changes quite damaging to DCS performance and will not be using them. It's possible that something isn't correctly configured, however the files replaced clearly do something to get it working without SteamVR, good luck with you own findings!

I've said a few times that the peformance uplift in my case isn't massive, I think around 5fps or there abouts (I have no hard and fast data on this though), the difference is in the image quality and I believe that the fps lows are higher giving a more stable frametime.  For me openxr @ 100% looks equal to steamvr @ 150% and with improved aliasing to boot; I no longer use MSAA.

The performance uplifts for me come from achieving better clarity at lower resolution and the openxr toolkit performance tweaks like the foveated rendering etc.

The ability to run reprojection down in fractional steps is massive as well as it gives you a working fps range of 90 to 30 to tune your settings into 🙂

43 minutes ago, MarcT-NL said:

So if I understand correctly, I could completely forget about Steam and everything Steam-related with this ?

(This PC is dedicated to ONLY DCS, and some tools like Scratchpad, SRS and VoiceAttack)

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Yep, steam and steamvr is not required at all.  Note that any 3rd party apps like VR kneeboard that utilise steamvr overlays won't work, I believe that the openkneeboard dev is investigating openxr implementation though.

edit: with regards to the openxr dev toolkit, setting default resolution calculates the optimum resolution as a function of your available vram recommends that my 8gb 3070 should be running at a little over 60%.  This alone gains me around 20fps on the same settings and whilst it does introduce some slight shimmer in the cockpit is really useable, I can still read all of the A10 instruments without leaning in.

This gives me more performance but as I'm tied down to 45fps via reprojection anway (I can't get 90fps without completely potatoing my settings) then I may as well push the resolution up and enjoy the view 🙂


Edited by edmuss
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1 hour ago, aceviper said:

I was having the same issue.

I think the menu is off screen in g2 at 100%...can kind of see something upper left corner.

Using ctrl and arrows for menu.

I have set openxr for wmr tools custom render scale at 70% and the menu appears.

-220 pixels to correct double image

 

 

 

That was my clue. After tryin everything else, I set the scale to 50%, then started DCS, press the button to bring up the overlay but saw nothing (in front of me). So I pressed a few more times and caught something in my peripheral way up high, left and almost off my left eye fov.

Then I recalled originally having the one LCD slightly off skew and needed to edit my opencomposite.ini to my G2. Then the next day I realize there was a patch.
Toggle off in OvGME, extracted patch files to the folder, then toggled it back on in OvGME.

It seems that file was maybe still in use and locked by Windows, because I later found that I was still on the original opencomposite.ini missing the very important line:

";Use OpenXR layers to handle GUI overlays and HUDs, if set to false will render internally directly onto swap chain before submitting
enableLayers=true"

 

So I called myself an idiot, and moved on. It was late so I only barely poked around with it but, WOW!

Now I have to go to work instead of flying in my newly awesome, badass, visually stunning DCS.

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So, this is why I have included the blurb about performance and why number chases will be disappointed

Here is a graph I have shamelessly stolen from @mimikiwi - note how the average frame-rate is not much different. 2FPS. Why bother? But this doesnt tell the full story. OpenXR would be miles beyond what SteamVR can provide

I have said it before and will say it again, once you hit 30-40FPS forget about the numbers and work on getting a good experience. This experience should be consistent (fluid, smooth)

Mate, if you think this a placebo after reading 12 pages worth of posts and reddit comments - be my guest. Because nothing what I will write will be able to convince you otherwise. I wanted to make clear that I wouldn't have sacrificed tens of hours of my life creating, updating this thread over a placebo. Let me also be clear, this thread exists because performance increases have come on the community's head and I am for one am grateful that Jabbah and mbucchia have gone so far out of their way to help

Whilst I speak for myself, I doubt that I am alone in expressing this opinion

DCS_SteamVR-vs-OpenXR_FFR.pngIMG_1106.png


Edited by nikoel
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13 hours ago, edmuss said:

An update on the issues I was having with motion reprojection in OXR.

I was getting bubbly distortion all over the screen when MR was engaged, something that I didn't have with steamvr.

Not entirely sure what has fixed it but I did the following: -

  • Switched WMR4SVR to beta branch.
  • Set steamvr as the openxr runtime within SVR settings.
  • WMRP then gave a message stating that WMR isn't set to be the openxr runtime and to click here to fix it.
  • I clicked here.

And it's worked since 🙂

So if you have bubbly motion reprojection in OXR, try resetting the openxr runtime to SVR and then WMR in turn.

I tried your method and I could get openXR MR to "always on" without the bubbling. While this an improvement over "automatic", it does NOT work as well as SteamVR in low fps (20-30) scenarios. In SteamVR I didnt notice my frame rate dropped to the 20s, while in openXR its very noticable. It produces more artifacts, especially around the cockpit frame of the tomcat.

When your system can handle >45 fps constantly then openXR may be the better option, my system can only handle this in free flight unfortunately.


Edited by winghunter

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One of my friends s tinkled pink with the OpenXR mod he really happy about it. 
I just don’t see why people are sooo caught up with FPS… it has nothing to do with VR imo. Frametime yes if your playing are studying the performance, other then that it’s about the smooth flow in VR. Fly the sim not the numbers. This OpenXR is making a lot of sense and I’m seeing more people doing it. I just don’t feel I need too many because I have a 3090 and what most are seeing and feeling in the performance boost. I’m already there. Has anybody tried this with a 3090 ? Is there that much difference ?

Edited— but then again it’s a bypass SteamVR thing and not hardware.

 


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AMD recently released RSR (Radeon Super Resolution) driver level upscaling for RX5000 and newer cards.

I played with it just enough to see that it actually works. Now I'm curious if there's any further benefit to using in along side OpenXR?

Or if their FSR 2 will play nicely. It's due in Q2.

 

48 minutes ago, edmuss said:

 

Yep, steam and steamvr is not required at all.  Note that any 3rd party apps like VR kneeboard that utilise steamvr overlays won't work, I believe that the openkneeboard dev is investigating openxr implementation though.

 

 

Wonder if this includes the kneeboard in Vaicom?

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3 minutes ago, winghunter said:

I tried your method and I could get openXR MR to "always on" without the bubbling. While this an improvement over "automatic", it does NOT work as well as SteamVR in low fps (20-30) scenarios. In SteamVR I didnt notice my frame rate dropped to the 20s, while in openXR its very noticable. It produces more artifacts, especially around the cockpit frame of the tomcat.

When your system can handle >45 fps constantly then openXR may be the better option, my system can only handle this in free flight unfortunately.

 

Automatic reprojection setting in the dev toolkit is app dependant and currently only msfs is set up in it, for anything else you need to use always on.

That sounds about correct, as the fps drops the reprojection has to work harder to keep it smooth.  With steamvr if your fps drops much below 50 (assuming 90hz) then it will disable all reprojection and it will be stuttery.  With openxr it steps down to 30fps lock instead of turning off all together, it will drop down again to 18fps if you go even lower but it's not very pleasant at that.

I would argue that as long as you can keep over 35fps minimum then openxr reprojection will give much better results especially if you can't keep the 50fps required to keep it locked to 45fps.

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EDIT: thermal throttling of my MSI board was to blame, while the board cooled down the frames got back up so i thought it was  due to steamVR

Thats not what i experience though, steamVR is definitely smoother in the 20-30s fps range. I dont know why that is, my steamVR MR is forced on, while in the SVR WMR overlay settings its set to off.


Edited by winghunter

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19 minutes ago, Burt said:

One of my friends s tinkled pink with the OpenXR mod he really happy about it. 
I just don’t see why people are sooo caught up with FPS… it has nothing to do with VR imo. Frametime yes if your playing are studying the performance, other then that it’s about the smooth flow in VR. Fly the sim not the numbers. This OpenXR is making a lot of sense and I’m seeing more people doing it. I just don’t feel I need too many because I have a 3090 and what most are seeing and feeling in the performance boost. I’m already there. Has anybody tried this with a 3090 ? Is there that much difference ?

Edited— but then again it’s a bypass SteamVR thing and not hardware.

 

 

yes (for the 3090, see my specs in my sig).  Working great, and I'm not going back to SteamVR.  I'd been using OpenXR/Toolkit via M$F$, and so happy to see we have it now for DCS.

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1 hour ago, Pikey said:

I spent a great deal of time benchmarking this and I can find no benefit and only loss of FPS. For sure it is working, and I dont have stability issues or black screens. SteamVR remains off and the game actually loads a lot faster. (in one test, 45s faster)

There is a contradiction in your first statement whereby you state you see no benefit but acknowledge the game loaded 45 seconds faster, in some cases. I'd consider that a benefit.

I strongly disagree that this is "damaging" to DCS performance. While I certainly have not gone to the lengths that several people have in this thread, I have noticed a significant improvement with stuttering, or lack thereof I should say.

From what I gather and what has been made clear is that this is not about instant performance boosts or being a magic bullet. This isn't a native implementation, so it's understandable the performance gains are negligible. However, it remains to be said that WMR on SteamVR has a plethora of issues which make DCS, and other SteamVR integrated games, unplayable. Issues on SteamVR for WMR such as stuttering, which continues until you quit the game, and while any one individual may not have such an experience the fact is many of us do. For me, using this extension with DCS has solved some problems by taking SteamVR out of the equation, and DCS runs now runs smooth.

 


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