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OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)


nikoel

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17 minutes ago, Marco Schaap said:

Thanks. I'm up to date.

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Don't think so, no kneeboards that I know of for now but I think openkneeboard is looking to be implemented for OXR.

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Is it only me or Fixed Foveated Rendering isn't working with openXR? I see the pixelated areas but no frametime improvement

With a resolution of 3200x3200 per eye I get:

12ms gpu frametimes with vrperfkit (FFR inner circle of 0.3)

16ms gpu frametimes with openXR (even if I apply half resolution to everything with FFR, the frame times stay the same)

This is without any upscaling applied

Hardware is 3090 + G2

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I think the FFR is still WIP and subject to tweaking, I don't see a huge uplift from it at the moment, around 1.5ms but then I didn't see much more with vrperfkit.

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I'm so torn by OpenXR.
It gives and takes and I think its just having not enough hardware that's letting me down. i5 10600K and 2080S. I reinstalled things and spent more time using it than benchmarking it and I warmed to it.

The way I have found it is that the tracking is the most amazing improvement. Soft in turns, doesn't stop if turning your head fast or at extreme angles like looking down and to the side, the actual tracking issues solved from SteamVR, never have to recentre at the start. But the loss is pure frames and CPU frametime. I cannot explain it. This means that going into MP I get the frames descend into the danger zone and things start to go wrong from then on. Offline, I think its better than SteamVR and in MP it wont get up high enough to guarantee 30FPS all the time.
A lot of 3xxx series owners claimed this is just scoring points needlessly as if frames don't matter, but when you are clear of the low frames the benefit of the tracking without loss becomes way more obvious.
Pros: Tracking is awesome, smoother turning, get rid of Steam, can change settings with Dev tools on the fly, better offline compraritive performance, easier to play with, starts faster, popular community effort. I think (and its impossible to benchmark) it behaves much better for low texture memory usage. I found the F14 which was notoriously heavy and juddery was smoother and mor eenjoyable to fly.
Cons: FPS is lower, it struggles worse at low FPS than SteamVR at the same FPS, can't use fpsVR, its a mod and resets with updates, appears to be more CPU bound and performed badly in MP, some of the settings in the Dev tools dont seem to work well or at all

Whatr I do know is that you cannot compare them well, I thought I could, but I cannot.

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I personally am not going to mess with all the muss and fuss of getting a mod to work decently with DCS for Open XR. However I would absolutely love to see ED implement native Open XR support. It just has so many advantages to it.

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3 hours ago, Pikey said:

I'm so torn by OpenXR.
It gives and takes and I think its just having not enough hardware that's letting me down. i5 10600K and 2080S. I reinstalled things and spent more time using it than benchmarking it and I warmed to it.

The way I have found it is that the tracking is the most amazing improvement. Soft in turns, doesn't stop if turning your head fast or at extreme angles like looking down and to the side, the actual tracking issues solved from SteamVR, never have to recentre at the start. But the loss is pure frames and CPU frametime. I cannot explain it. This means that going into MP I get the frames descend into the danger zone and things start to go wrong from then on. Offline, I think its better than SteamVR and in MP it wont get up high enough to guarantee 30FPS all the time.
A lot of 3xxx series owners claimed this is just scoring points needlessly as if frames don't matter, but when you are clear of the low frames the benefit of the tracking without loss becomes way more obvious.
Pros: Tracking is awesome, smoother turning, get rid of Steam, can change settings with Dev tools on the fly, better offline compraritive performance, easier to play with, starts faster, popular community effort. I think (and its impossible to benchmark) it behaves much better for low texture memory usage. I found the F14 which was notoriously heavy and juddery was smoother and mor eenjoyable to fly.
Cons: FPS is lower, it struggles worse at low FPS than SteamVR at the same FPS, can't use fpsVR, its a mod and resets with updates, appears to be more CPU bound and performed badly in MP, some of the settings in the Dev tools dont seem to work well or at all

Whatr I do know is that you cannot compare them well, I thought I could, but I cannot.

wellmaybe you are setting your resolution and settings to high for DCS. I have a 10700K @ 4.8ghz with a 1070GTX and running 30% Res with moslty low settings but msaa x2 and can get 38-46fps in caucusus.. you can not run this sim with max resolution.

 

What resolution do you run in OpenXR Tool?


Edited by The_Nephilim

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21 minutes ago, Pikey said:

I'm so torn by OpenXR.
It gives and takes and I think its just having not enough hardware that's letting me down. i5 10600K and 2080S. I reinstalled things and spent more time using it than benchmarking it and I warmed to it.

The way I have found it is that the tracking is the most amazing improvement. Soft in turns, doesn't stop if turning your head fast or at extreme angles like looking down and to the side, the actual tracking issues solved from SteamVR, never have to recentre at the start. But the loss is pure frames and CPU frametime. I cannot explain it. This means that going into MP I get the frames descend into the danger zone and things start to go wrong from then on. Offline, I think its better than SteamVR and in MP it wont get up high enough to guarantee 30FPS all the time.
A lot of 3xxx series owners claimed this is just scoring points needlessly as if frames don't matter, but when you are clear of the low frames the benefit of the tracking without loss becomes way more obvious.
Pros: Tracking is awesome, smoother turning, get rid of Steam, can change settings with Dev tools on the fly, better offline compraritive performance, easier to play with, starts faster, popular community effort. I think (and its impossible to benchmark) it behaves much better for low texture memory usage. I found the F14 which was notoriously heavy and juddery was smoother and mor eenjoyable to fly.
Cons: FPS is lower, it struggles worse at low FPS than SteamVR at the same FPS, can't use fpsVR, its a mod and resets with updates, appears to be more CPU bound and performed badly in MP, some of the settings in the Dev tools dont seem to work well or at all

Whatr I do know is that you cannot compare them well, I thought I could, but I cannot.

FWIW, I caught via the M$F$ thread, the Toolkit development team is planning to add some additional perf measures into a future release.

This was one of the more compelling points for me. 

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18 hours ago, nikoel said:

Also, what specs are you running mate?

I also don't run motion smoothening and have a super smooth 45FPS experience with the Apache in Syria everywhere I go

I'm getting 30-45 depending on where I'm at.  Georgia/PG/NTTR on the 45 end, Syria/Marianas closer to 30 in the urban areas.  I'm running relatively high spec on a 10900K @4.8 and a 3090, 64gig RAM.  I DO have a lot of CPU overhead, running both leap tracking and simtools in the background which I think contributes to slightly less-than-stellar frames.

Digital Combat Simulator  Black Shark Screenshot 2022.03.29 - 19.51.39.06.png

For the OpenXR toolkit I've got frames locked to 45 and turned on FFR.  I know it doesn't do much but I barely notice it when I'm looking for it so I figure something is better than nothing.  Also upped the contrast a tad to compensate for the G2's washy colors. 

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1 hour ago, Pikey said:

I'm so torn by OpenXR.
It gives and takes and I think its just having not enough hardware that's letting me down. i5 10600K and 2080S. I reinstalled things and spent more time using it than benchmarking it and I warmed to it.

The way I have found it is that the tracking is the most amazing improvement. Soft in turns, doesn't stop if turning your head fast or at extreme angles like looking down and to the side, the actual tracking issues solved from SteamVR, never have to recentre at the start. But the loss is pure frames and CPU frametime. I cannot explain it. This means that going into MP I get the frames descend into the danger zone and things start to go wrong from then on. Offline, I think its better than SteamVR and in MP it wont get up high enough to guarantee 30FPS all the time.
A lot of 3xxx series owners claimed this is just scoring points needlessly as if frames don't matter, but when you are clear of the low frames the benefit of the tracking without loss becomes way more obvious.
Pros: Tracking is awesome, smoother turning, get rid of Steam, can change settings with Dev tools on the fly, better offline compraritive performance, easier to play with, starts faster, popular community effort. I think (and its impossible to benchmark) it behaves much better for low texture memory usage. I found the F14 which was notoriously heavy and juddery was smoother and mor eenjoyable to fly.
Cons: FPS is lower, it struggles worse at low FPS than SteamVR at the same FPS, can't use fpsVR, its a mod and resets with updates, appears to be more CPU bound and performed badly in MP, some of the settings in the Dev tools dont seem to work well or at all

Whatr I do know is that you cannot compare them well, I thought I could, but I cannot.

I respect a man who can say this -

If you let me give you a little bit of advice in regards to the DCS settings that may enable you to get the FPS you want. I understand you were using the F14 (rather than the soul and fps sucking Apache) 

I don't know what settings you're running but here is what I would do

Set AA = 0/off | MSAA=x2 | Clouds to Standard | Shadows to low | Terrain shadows to either flat or off | water to low (or medium) | vis to high/medium | Turn the grass/vegetation slider to zero| | The same for chimney smoke | All three tick boxes on the bottom left unticked | Then reduce the resolution you had in OpenXR by say 10%

I think you will be pleasantly surprised 

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5 hours ago, javelina1 said:

FWIW, I caught via the M$F$ thread, the Toolkit development team is planning to add some additional perf measures into a future release.

This was one of the more compelling points for me. 

The Reprojection bug for DCS has been identified and is being actively worked on

6 hours ago, dburne said:

I personally am not going to mess with all the muss and fuss of getting a mod to work decently with DCS for Open XR. However I would absolutely love to see ED implement native Open XR support. It just has so many advantages to it.

Whilst it's possible - I am just going to say it to you straight to save you suffering and disappointment. At this current time, this will not be implemented by DCS. DCS developers are working on Vulkan implementation. OpenXR on WMR does not currently support Vulkan. Therefore it would be wasteful for them to put devtime into this, especially since multicore has been in discussion since 2009. This will change in time. But at the moment this is the best there is.

In just over a week, Jabbah, Mbucchia and the community have solved almost all issues. You have seen some people who have been - lets say critical - of it's value come around

You have two options - save your virgin vanilla DCS for marriage, (oooof, Sweeeeet home, Aaaalabamaaa! Maybe a bad analogy. According to Wikipedia DCS is 14 years old) or just drag and drop three files into the bin folder let your hair out and have some fun. (Okay a really bad analogy - but the point still stands)

Ironically you would not have any issues because your install doesn't suffer from left over junk

I have been updating the guide almost every day to make it more and more water tight - errors have been worked out. The issues you see are from people not reading, taking shortcuts with OVGME or simply not doing steps that I've spelled out eg. Setting PD to 1.0 

 


Edited by nikoel
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Download latest release of OpenXR Developer Tools for windows. Tick Use latest preview and customise the render (say 100%). Also don’t forget to set the runtime as OpenXR in the home tab (if you don't see the option then it's good to go) leave Motion Reprojection off. (You can try with it on later if you wish). NOTE: You can leave the render resolution unticked, in which case OpenXR will decide for you what the resolution you will get, but it's unlikely to be 100%

 

 Im just starting this upgrade and Im curious about this step here. Where would I see this information at? I dont see them here anywhere in this app...

Screenshot 2022-03-30 000712.jpg


Edited by Hammer1-1

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@nikoel PM me your paypal address please. I owe you a coffee/beer for all your effort in helping everyone with this and all the updated support. I have just tried this and WOW! DCS is smooth. 

What I found interesting is that I've been able to increase my settings, and lower my FPS - and get a better experience with this than SteamVR.  In SteamVR I was aiming for 45fps. (I had to have a lot of low settings for that!). And even then, things weren't always smooth - especially if there were times where it dropped below 45.

Trying this, I'm only running at 30FPS, but it's smooth as silk. This with a HP Gen 1 headset, running at 100% res, on a 2080S.  30FPS seems 'faster' and smoother in this than 45FPS in SteamVR. (I'm also not sure if I did something wrong in SteamVR, because it would never lock to 30FPS - it would aim for 45, otherwise give 'best option' (unless I changed from 90hz to 60hz which I wasn't interested in)) - whereas this seems to automatically drop from 45 to 30fps and still give a great experience.

I haven't experimented enough to know whether I get better performance (as in FPS, etc) on the same settings - but honestly - I don't care. The end experience is better and smoother at 30fps than SteamVR at 45fps. Thank you! 

(And don't forget that PM) 😉

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I will admit that I saw a little bit of improvement; with clouds set to middle range and heatblur down to low, my FPS stayed stable at 45 the whole time. Bringing MSAA to 4x brought them down to 30...almost playable for me.  Ill give it a bit more of an adjustment here soon, but Im more interested in getting rid of SteamVR as thats all I cared about. Now I can get that crap off my hard drive!

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Hi. I'm using a Pimax Artisan which uses Pitool and steamVR API for DCS at the moment. Would it be possible to use the OpenXR mod without having to use WMR? SteamVR shows OpenXR as runtime atm, so Pitool might probably be compatible.

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1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

 

 Im just starting this upgrade and Im curious about this step here. Where would I see this information at? I dont see them here anywhere in this app...

Screenshot 2022-03-30 000712.jpg

 

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40 minutes ago, Dragondal said:

Hi ,

I tried installing as per guide above I have tried OVGME and manually adding the files .when I launch DCS in VR I keep getting this error. I have tried everything but no luck .Any Ideas???

Openxr error DCS.JPG

 

Set Pixel Density in DCS to 1.0, and don't use OpenXR Toolset. (Disable it in the OpenXR Toolset Settings Menu). I used an external Program to lauch DCS World without VR to reset the PD in DCS, because after I've modified DCS with the OpenXR Mod I couldn't start it, because of the same Error you get.

The external Launcher I've used https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3312032/


Edited by TheFlyGuy
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Why is PD the one thing that keeps it from running right?

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Bookmarked this thread for future reference. Will definitely be trying this out. 

Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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6 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Why is PD the one thing that keeps it from running right?

I think it's to do with DCS changing the resolution after it's been set by OXR.

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After getting better performance with openXR, I am once again back to square one. Performance tanked for some unknown reason, i didnt change any settings.

I was flying the F15 standard / default mission attached. It still has the old cloud setting but i dont think this should make the difference. For some reason openXR is having terrible performance at times. I fixed this previously, or i thought i fixed it by reinstalling openXR dev tools.

Switching back to SteamVR everything is butter smooth in this mission. Can someone else confirm ?

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