OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[Dogmanbird]

ya ya yep, and it does it without repro too, though turning it off slows down the drip. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a sudden spike in CPU usage that sets OXR into a state it can't recover from.

just some background - I've sapped a 3080 and 3090 back and forth in same system with same results, so I don't think its entirely Vram capacity related. It's hard to say if one took longer to jitter than the other as the bugs timing is fairly erratic. However, setting DCS' "Texture" setting (not Terrain Texture) to medium or low does significantly delay the jitters compared to setting it high. 

 

[Marklar]

8 hours ago, lax22 said:

In DCS, OpenXR MR works pretty well with the exception of rotor issues in helicopters and also excessive ghosting in jet fly by views.(F3)

I also noticed a lot of ghosting on the tips of Hellfires when looking at them from the cockpit.

[oz555]

1 hour ago, Dogmanbird said:

Understood, but for me it doesn't happen with SVR in multiplayer, with GFX and render scale set high.  

Multiplayer, when using OpenComposite, even with all in game options low (but DCS VR set at 100) and OXR Dev Tool render scale turned down to 20, eventually the stutters will begin, and will generally remain regardless of how complex or barren the scenery.

On my two systems it's behaving like a tap dripping into a bucket. Lowering the GFX settings slows down the drip, but ultimately it will full up, at which point the judders/jitters start. 

Other than this problem, it's fantastic

 

I'm having the opposite experience. MP servers are transformed for me as so often FPS drops below 45 in MP. With MR always on even a full carrier deck is workable instead of nauseous at 22fps MR and at 30fps it's a good experience for me. Total game changer in this regard. 

I still cannot go near this mod with MR off though. 

[Dogmanbird]

same, I can't fly without MR. 

[Wali763]

Just a question for understanding.

Im having MR off and using Radeo Chill to keep my fps to 45. With my settings I can achieve that quite well and strangely with fixed 45fps it feels smoother than with variable fps around 50-60.

Most noticeable this is when I move my head sidewards to the left or right while looking forward. But while moving the picture gets slightly blurry for that time. Same for looking at my 3/9. As long my system can keep the 45 its a bit blurry, but kind of smooth. But once it goes down to say 43 the whole picture gets jumpy.

The reason why at 45fps it feels smoother is, because its half refresh rate of my G2? Or because the framerate is fixed and not changing all the time?

I havent tried this yet, but I assume having higher fixed fps with Chil (say 60fps) will not feel as smooth as 45fps. 

MR right now is no option for me, because the picture looks strange like having larger raindrops on my lens.

Im still using mainly TrackIR. But since I have a G2 for simracing, Id like to make this work (Im testing in stable DCS), since with this mod for me VR in DCS for the first time seems nice. Even the image quality on monitor is still far supirior and fixed 60fps feel much smoother than anything I had in VR.

Edit: I just found the answer to my question regarding 45fps in a post a few pages back.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Wali763

[edmuss]

50 minutes ago, Wali763 said:

MR right now is no option for me, because the picture looks strange like having larger raindrops on my lens.

 

If you're getting the water on camera lens/jelly eels MR artifacts in a jet (or basically anywhere without rotor blades/prop/very fast moving edges) try running through the SVR/OXR runtime switcheroo as mentioned by @nikoel in the first post.

It shouldn't do anything, it shouldn't work but it has fixed the wobbly MR for normal jet use for quite a few people now

[loiphin]

On 4/4/2022 at 12:37 PM, loiphin said:

I TOO HAVE DECIDED, I am never going back....SteamVR is dead in DCS. Long live Open XR!

Its just too god damn amazing! I am running a 9900K (OC to 5GHZ) , Radeon overclocked 6900XT (I let the software do it) , Reverb G2,  150% custom resolution, no MSAA (not really needed).

AH-64D, F/A-18 and A-10C are just incredible. On Caucasus map I am getting 50-60FPS most of the time in each module. (Main menu, Instant Action , <module>, On the Ramp) 

 

Hands down the best single mod I have ever made to DCS in my 10 years of DCS. I just sit there on the runway and look at the cockpit in awe. Thank you to all involved for the amazing work.

 

 

Okay guys just an update on my settings and what I see.  I used only the AH-64D and A-10CII (new cockpit), on the Caucasus map Instant action on the runway.

So this is what I tried:

The FPS below is based on looking straight ahead when sitting on the runway. If I fly up in the air I normally can maintain a good 45-50FPS. Again I am just a single player guy, who likes cruising the skies. So all you MP Mavericks out there, of course YMMV...

 

150% scaling, no MR, no MSAA     -       AH-64D 37FPS,  A-10C 45FPS   This is by far the best looking mode in my humble opinion. I also cap my Radeon card to 45FPS (Radeon Chill) to avoid the FPS bouncing about. This is the best I have ever seen DCS in the A-10C, and I have flown the A-10 for 10 years. From what I know now, I could never go back to non-VR, but like a heroin addict, I am going to be throwing a lot of money to chase that high in the years to come;) 

 

100% scaling, no MR, MSAA x 4   -  AH-64D 37FPS, A-10C 45 FPS (Same results as above, am I CPU bound? - 9900K OC'd to 5GHz, no messing around with cores, pinning them etc). Looks almost the same, maybe a bit softer in my eyes.

 

100% scaling, MR, MSAA x 4 - Looks like hell with jelly-cam, so I didnt even bother getting results.

 

150% scaling, no MR, MSAA x 4 - Looks a bit softer in my eyes and now my FPS tanks to like 27FPS. Just happened to try it, but of course its not a viable option.

 

 

DCS settings below. Again I havent really messed with this much.. and a lot is due to personal taste. Anything that sticks out as a real FPS hog below?

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by loiphin

[greyeagle787]

Hey All, I have kind of a simple generic couple of questions if anyone has time. I’m running v 6.1 successfully. If I upgrade to 6.3 do I need to install all 3 files and would I need to run Clean/Repair? Also, when I download a DCS Update, should I just save the 3 files and reinstall in bin folder or download fresh? Same question about Clean/Repair in that instance too. Thanks!!

 

[Bul-le-Bac]

Just popping in to say thanks for this. SteamVR had decent frames but stuttered every now and then, OpenXR is smooth as butter! When MR is on frames drop to 45, then 33, then 18 ish tho. So I have MR off and have nearly constant 45fps. Much better clarity and a bit of performance increase with foveated on. Have ghosting on fast movers, but with SteamVR all of the terrain was ghosting.

Ryzen 3600X, Nvidia 2070S, 32GB RAM, Reverb G2 on 100% without MSAA.

[edmuss]

4 minutes ago, greyeagle787 said:

Hey All, I have kind of a simple generic couple of questions if anyone has time. I’m running v 6.1 successfully. If I upgrade to 6.3 do I need to install all 3 files and would I need to run Clean/Repair? Also, when I download a DCS Update, should I just save the 3 files and reinstall in bin folder or download fresh? Same question about Clean/Repair in that instance too. Thanks!!

 

You should be able to copy the files back in, overwriting your existing and off it goes.  If your installation of OC_ACC is good and working then upgrading to a newer version shouldn't be an issue.  The clean/repair part is to make sure you have a solid base without any foreign files in there that could stop this (what is at the end of the day experimental beta software) from working, basically eliminating any variables to improve your success rate of running it.

I'm using the OVGME package so I just disable and reenable it from there.

[nairb121]

8 hours ago, Nodak said:

Programs menu, "OpenXR Toolkit Hand-to-Controller Configuration Tool", bet you'll find your answer there.  Comes standard with the tool kit.

Thanks for the suggestion. I messed around with that a bit last night before I posted, but I couldn't get it to affect the controllers. I figured, based on the name, that it was more for setting up emulation of controllers with hand tracking. I'll try some more tonight, maybe there was something I missed.

[Wali763]

3 hours ago, edmuss said:

If you're getting the water on camera lens/jelly eels MR artifacts in a jet (or basically anywhere without rotor blades/prop/very fast moving edges) try running through the SVR/OXR runtime switcheroo as mentioned by @nikoel in the first post.

It shouldn't do anything, it shouldn't work but it has fixed the wobbly MR for normal jet use for quite a few people now

Hi.

Tried that already and it did not work for me. Also when I restarted the PC, it was as it was before.

Thx

[markturner1960]

21 hours ago, nikoel said:

I would rate MSAA somewhere between drinking orange juice after brushing your teeth and enabling Reprojection

One undeniable fact of life however, is that It serves a purpose. But then again at what cost? Well the cost turns out to be over 50% of additional resolution, which at 6K+ is absolute bonkers. It additionally gives a blurrier image. So people are running a x4 blur filter over their images, to then try to sharpen it again via filters and mods. Each step taking more resources

Many are trying to derive ways to reduce shimmer without the massive performance hit and are coming up with ways to do so

None of them can touch MSAA in the shimmer reduction - but going from 100 to 150% still makes it better! - it's something we need to bear with until a better implementation comes along
The other thing to keep in mind is that the guy running 150% has a significantly more detailed and sharper image than anyone with MSAA smear

So what do you get? Well, guys with 1080ti cards who have accepted shimmer and a 10% reduction of resolution are now within a stone throw away from 3090's running MSAAx4. Proving that even I can outrun Usain Bolt if he is tied to a ball and chain

An other thing to keep in mind is that OpenXR at least in my case has reduced shimmer significantly even with MSAA off (compared to the same settings in SVR)

I am hoping FSR can be fixed and I can run my 200% resolution with 0.75 FSR to almost equal MSAAx4 SVR

For the record I am running MSAAx2 (but this is because even after dialing up settings, I still had a heap of overhead left - so, I decided, why not?)

 

 

So what do you think is going to be better? MSAA x2 and 100%, or 150% and no MSAA ? I am running the former, and while its a huge improvement the scenery could still benefit from sharpening.......cockpit is simply awesome though......

[greyeagle787]

37 minutes ago, edmuss said:

You should be able to copy the files back in, overwriting your existing and off it goes.  If your installation of OC_ACC is good and working then upgrading to a newer version shouldn't be an issue.  The clean/repair part is to make sure you have a solid base without any foreign files in there that could stop this (what is at the end of the day experimental beta software) from working, basically eliminating any variables to improve your success rate of running it.

I'm using the OVGME package so I just disable and reenable it from there.

 

Great, Thanks. Do you recommend continuing to update to newer versions even if things are currently smooth as silk?

[TZeer]

3 hours ago, edmuss said:

If you're getting the water on camera lens/jelly eels MR artifacts in a jet (or basically anywhere without rotor blades/prop/very fast moving edges) try running through the SVR/OXR runtime switcheroo as mentioned by @nikoel in the first post.

It shouldn't do anything, it shouldn't work but it has fixed the wobbly MR for normal jet use for quite a few people now

I have this issue in the Apache. Specifically on the mfd, depending on what page I have up. And constantly on the buttons surrounding my mfd's.

[edmuss]

 

26 minutes ago, Wali763 said:

Hi.

Tried that already and it did not work for me. Also when I restarted the PC, it was as it was before.

Thx

@speed-of-heat mentioned earlier that he was getting jelly eels all over because he had a version of keyegtys VR shader mods installed, uninstalled it (and deleted shadercache folders I presume) and it seems to be working correctly as anticipated?

 

17 minutes ago, greyeagle787 said:

 

Great, Thanks. Do you recommend continuing to update to newer versions even if things are currently smooth as silk?

I would as it should generally only improve performance and/or functionality.  The old versions are all still available on github though so if you have an issue you can revert.  I'm keeping all of the old versions in my OVGME mods repository folder so I can enable/disable whichever I want to test in a matter of seconds.

8 minutes ago, TZeer said:

I have this issue in the Apache. Specifically on the mfd, depending on what page I have up. And constantly on the buttons surrounding my mfd's.

Currently there is nothing we can do but wait this out, all being well it will be resolved in the future.  Setting shadows to flat or off should eliminate the MFD artifacting due to shadows but you will still get the same if you look at the rotors next to the cockpit frame and it will look crappy

[speed-of-heat]

actually i didnt delete the shader cache i will give that a go as well 

 

[Nightstorm]

4 hours ago, edmuss said:

If you're getting the water on camera lens/jelly eels MR artifacts in a jet (or basically anywhere without rotor blades/prop/very fast moving edges) try running through the SVR/OXR runtime switcheroo as mentioned by @nikoel in the first post.

It shouldn't do anything, it shouldn't work but it has fixed the wobbly MR for normal jet use for quite a few people now

I've tried several different things.  Making sure no other shader mods are installed, the switcharoo (four times) clearing cache etc.  With MR on I get the swimming artifact when taxing, a little bit even on the menus, but most noticeably when I fly through any cloud.  I'm still trying to find the right balance with MR off and it really seems to be mission dependent now.  Of course, the more stuff in a mission, the bigger the hit on the CPU.  Here's hoping that MR issues do get resolved soon.  That would be awesome.

[Gruble]

Anyone use the quest 2 with this? I cant figure out how to fix the warped view fisheye effect. I tried messing with the fov settings in the tool but still not fixed.

[edmuss]

19 minutes ago, Nightstorm said:

I've tried several different things.  Making sure no other shader mods are installed, the switcharoo (four times) clearing cache etc.  With MR on I get the swimming artifact when taxing, a little bit even on the menus, but most noticeably when I fly through any cloud.  I'm still trying to find the right balance with MR off and it really seems to be mission dependent now.  Of course, the more stuff in a mission, the bigger the hit on the CPU.  Here's hoping that MR issues do get resolved soon.  That would be awesome.

The menus apparently do the jelly eel dance because there's no depth buffer, I'm not too sure why it doesn't happen with WMR4SVR though.  I've found that if you're in the 1/4 refresh rate bracket (22Hz) then the artifacts get much worse, you should hopefully be able to tune your system to never be this low though.  I've also seen the artifacts when flying through clouds, again hopefully all of these will be resolved and then as you say it will be awesome

[diamond26]

25 minutes ago, Gruble said:

Anyone use the quest 2 with this? I cant figure out how to fix the warped view fisheye effect. I tried messing with the fov settings in the tool but still not fixed.

I wondered why some people get this problem and others not.

I for example don't have this issue with my Quest2

[edmuss]

28 minutes ago, Gruble said:

Anyone use the quest 2 with this? I cant figure out how to fix the warped view fisheye effect. I tried messing with the fov settings in the tool but still not fixed.

You do have PD1.0 set in DCS and no other resolution changing tools on the oculus side?

[nikoel]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

So what do you think is going to be better? MSAA x2 and 100%, or 150% and no MSAA ? I am running the former, and while its a huge improvement the scenery could still benefit from sharpening.......cockpit is simply awesome though......

I think enjoying DCS forgetting about shaders and other VR snake oils occasionally updating OpenXR/Composite/Toolkit until Vulcan comes out along with multithreading will give you the most amount of enjoyment 

To answer your question more directly - I now think that there is merit in both. It’s up to you which you prefer. OpenXR has unlocked the true potential of my setup 

On principle however, current MSAA implementation must die and be replaced with something else. I do try to go out of my way to avoid it (even if I end up running it anyway)

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, nikoel said:

I think enjoying DCS forgetting about shaders and other VR snake oils occasionally updating OpenXR/Composite/Toolkit until Vulcan comes out along with multithreading will give you the most amount of enjoyment 

To answer your question more directly - I now think that there is merit in both. It’s up to you which you prefer. OpenXR has unlocked the true potential of my setup 

On principle however, current MSAA implementation must die and be replaced with something else. I do try to go out of my way to avoid it (even if I end up running it anyway)

TAA would be nice, it works well in MSFS 2020.

[Dragasath]

37 minutes ago, dburne said:

TAA would be nice, it works well in MSFS 2020.

Probably not possible with deferred rendering