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OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)


nikoel

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb edmuss:

At this moment in time this is an issue within the implementation of MR and DCS; it's arguably worse than SVR at the moment but only really happens with helo rotors and props. The devs are aware of the problem.

No current fix or workarounds and it will get fixed as and when it is, that's assuming a fix is possible.

100% true!!

Guys who fly in MSFS aswell know this topic......motion reprojection without prop-wash is not possible as far as i know. There are some mods for this but again they come at a cost of performance, and thats now what we want i´m sure 😉 

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1 hour ago, nikoel said:

I think enjoying DCS forgetting about shaders and other VR snake oils occasionally updating OpenXR/Composite/Toolkit until Vulcan comes out along with multithreading will give you the most amount of enjoyment 

To answer your question more directly - I now think that there is merit in both. It’s up to you which you prefer. OpenXR has unlocked the true potential of my setup 

On principle however, current MSAA implementation must die and be replaced with something else. I do try to go out of my way to avoid it (even if I end up running it anyway)

Thanks, i will try at 150% and let you know how I got on......

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On 4/1/2022 at 11:44 PM, nikoel said:

By spending 3500 big green ones on a 3090TI 

AMD supports FFR only on DX12 and above 

 

3090tis are around 2K.

 

If you are seeing them for 3500 its because it is being sold by a 3rd party seller and not Amazon/Newegg/Etc.. directly. 

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1 hour ago, edmuss said:

You do have PD1.0 set in DCS and no other resolution changing tools on the oculus side?

PD is 1.0. I do have my resolution set to 4864 x 2448 but thats it. I have tried changing it but it doesn't make a difference.

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I can't take anyone seriously that says they are running with no motion reprojection, getting somewhere in the 50-80 fps range, and is somehow "buttery smooth". I just don't think it is possible. Looking straight ahead? Sure. Looking 3/9? No way. It visibly stutters 3/9 without MR, which is the opposite of smooth. 


Edited by DirtyMike0330
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1 minute ago, Gruble said:

PD is 1.0. I do have my resolution set to 4864 x 2448 but thats it. I have tried changing it but it doesn't make a difference.

is that set in both Oculus tray and inside DCS VR tab?

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1 minute ago, DirtyMike0330 said:

I can't take anyone seriously that says they are running with no motion reprojection, getting somewhere in the 50-80 fps range, and is somehow "buttery smooth". I just don't think it is possible. Looking straight ahead? Sure. Looking 3/9? No way. It visibly studders 3/9 without MR, which is the opposite of smooth. 

I am. Is it butter smooth? No. Does it work? Absolutely. I would have never thought it would work either, but...here we are.

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Just now, DirtyMike0330 said:

I can't take anyone seriously that says they are running with no motion reprojection, getting somewhere in the 50-80 fps range, and is somehow "buttery smooth". I just don't think it is possible. Looking straight ahead? Sure. Looking 3/9? No way. It visibly studders 3/9 without MR, which is the opposite of smooth. 

I guess that people's interpretation of "buttery smooth" is somewhat subjective! I agree with you though. I can get a solid 50-60fps without MR and it's pretty smooth looking forward with the occasional stutter but nothing like buttery smooth. With MR on and set to 45fps in OC toolkit, it really is buttery smooth looking in all directions but as we know, the current artefacts are terrible and the image quality is quite poor.

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Just now, Hammer1-1 said:

I am. Is it butter smooth? No. Does it work? Absolutely. I would have never thought it would work either, but...here we are.

And that's fine, at least you're admitting that it is stuttering and you can simply stomach it (I wish I could). It's the "OMG SO SMOOTH" nonsense spread around this immensely long thread that is annoying lol

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3 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

is that set in both Oculus tray and inside DCS VR tab?

When someone mentioned PD 1.0 in this context is talking about DCS PD not Oculus or Super sampling 

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4 minutes ago, DirtyMike0330 said:

And that's fine, at least you're admitting that it is stuttering and you can simply stomach it (I wish I could). It's the "OMG SO SMOOTH" nonsense spread around this immensely long thread that is annoying lol

Ive never NOT encountered a lack of stuttering with or without reprojection mode. All motion reprojection is is a method to create a frame that was dropped. For the most part, its close enough to accurate that it functions. I see FAR LESS dropped frames now, so theres really no need for motion reprojection to be on now, and yeah Ive tried it on. Turned to be a bit sht show. Id rather fly with it off now.

4 minutes ago, diamond26 said:

When someone mentioned PD 1.0 in this context is talking about DCS PD not Oculus or Super sampling 

No it doesnt. PD is PD, and its a setting thats repeated in most apps now. Kinda like how antialiasing is set on Nvidias control panel, in game, Geforce Experience, etc etc etc. They all stack on top of each other.


Edited by Hammer1-1
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8 minutes ago, DirtyMike0330 said:

And that's fine, at least you're admitting that it is stuttering and you can simply stomach it (I wish I could). It's the "OMG SO SMOOTH" nonsense spread around this immensely long thread that is annoying lol

I think it just is very subjective. I can't stand anything less than refresh without motion smoothing. The moment it drops below I can see it and for me it kills immersion because it no longer mimics how we see things.

I do seem sensitive to these things though. I can tell if a streamed sports game on TV is being processed at a low frame rate (e.g. my LG TV NowTV app compared to a stick in the same TV).  Occasionally my G1 displays at 60Hz although it says 90 and restarting fixes it and I can't run at 60.

I think VR highlights just how differently our brains are wired 🙂

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19 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

No it doesnt. PD is PD, and its a setting thats repeated in most apps now. Kinda like how antialiasing is set on Nvidias control panel, in game, Geforce Experience, etc etc etc. They all stack on top of each other.

My response was related to what @edmusssaid about PD and in that case we are talking about DCS PD. 

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ok

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2 hours ago, DirtyMike0330 said:

I can't take anyone seriously that says they are running with no motion reprojection, getting somewhere in the 50-80 fps range, and is somehow "buttery smooth". I just don't think it is possible. Looking straight ahead? Sure. Looking 3/9? No way. It visibly stutters 3/9 without MR, which is the opposite of smooth. 

 

I've found there's more to the equation than simply MR off/on.  If I run MR on, it's smoother, but GPU use is higher and image quality suffers.  If I run MR off, the image is sharper and GPU usage is lower,  BUT I get studders IF the frame rate is significantly below the headset refresh rate. For example, when MR is off and I get 50-60fps but my headset is set for 90hz i get studders. if I change my headset to 60fps.. studders are pretty much gone unless the fps continues to drop below the headset refresh rate.  In other words there are a lot of dependent variables here at play....

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5 minutes ago, j9murphy said:

I've found there's more to the equation than simply MR off/on.  If I run MR on, it's smoother, but GPU use is higher and image quality suffers.  If I run MR off, the image is sharper and GPU usage is lower,  BUT I get studders IF the frame rate is significantly below the headset refresh rate. For example, when MR is off and I get 50-60fps but my headset is set for 90hz i get studders. if I change my headset to 60fps.. studders are pretty much gone unless the fps continues to drop below the headset refresh rate.  In other words there are a lot of dependent variables here at play....

And, assuming you have the G2, I have heard that reducing the native rate down to 60hz is not a pleasant experience in and of itself. 

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Just now, DirtyMike0330 said:

And, assuming you have the G2, I have heard that reducing the native rate down to 60hz is not a pleasant experience in and of itself. 

Personally, the 60Hz flicker on the G2 gives me an instant headache. 

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4 minutes ago, Nightstorm said:

Personally, the 60Hz flicker on the G2 gives me an instant headache. 

Agreed, I don't have a G2.. I'm using an Odyssey+, still waiting to splurge for the next gen leap lol.  Although the behavior should be similar if you're not using MR and your system is producing a frame rate way below your headset refresh rate, you will see studdering - the degree of which is directly related to the difference between the two.  whether or not you find lower HMD refresh rates acceptable to your stomach and head is a completely different question:)


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I run 60hz currently, above refresh rate so I do genuinely get the buttery smooth and it's identical to 90hz for me; I'm immune to the refresh rate flicker.

I don't use reprojection right now and above 55fps it is plenty smooth enough, there is a tiny, tiny amount of stutter but only when looking 3-9 and close to buildings low down. As long as I'm facing forwards it doesn't get janky till less than 40fps but by then looking sideways is full of ghosting.

Some people are susceptible to it, some people aren't, just how it is.

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This made my game play so much better but now I have a problem.  When I try to join any multiplayer game it will load and get through the progress bar, then it just crashes right to WMR.  Is this happening to anyone else?  How do you fix this?

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6 minutes ago, falken76 said:

This made my game play so much better but now I have a problem.  When I try to join any multiplayer game it will load and get through the progress bar, then it just crashes right to WMR.  Is this happening to anyone else?  How do you fix this?

does it do it in single player? that tells me it might be a server/client problem.

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to continue from my comments above - the trade off you are making is...

MR on - smoother (if you cannot maintain a frame rate equal to or greater than your headset refresh rate) through frame interpolation, but at the cost of sharpness and GPU time (to create the additional frames)

MR Off - sharper, lower gpu load, but you live with the frame rate you can produce with no interpolation help, so if your frame rate is lower than your HMD refresh rate you get studders.

if you are close to your headset refresh rate most of the time and can tolerate the studders that's the way to go.  If there is a big gap, because you want all the eye candy - shadows, LOD, clouds etc... then for most of us that arent at the top of the power curve (12th Gen Intel and a 3090) then we need to resort to MR or live without as much eye candy.... 

What makes this complicated is there are literally 100s of  independent variables that we are trying to optimize between Nvidia CPL, OpenXr, DCS, Windows 11, etc...   I feel like I could write a whole guide, but then I'm not flying which is no fun lol.... so i'll just say this... like in economics the more variables you can eliminate and hold constant the easier it will be to determine your future!  Get rid of as many moving parts as possible:)


Edited by j9murphy
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