OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[Cab]

1 hour ago, Dogmanbird said:

it may now get installed automagically when you either install the WMR Portal or OpenXR(delveloper)Tools 

do you see it like below in the MS Store app library?

No, I don't see where it's installed on my PC.

It doesn't show up in the Store, but apparently it can be downloaded from this URL: Get OpenXR for Windows Mixed Reality - Microsoft Store

Update: When I click the Get button on the URL page, it takes me to the MS Store app for OpenXR for Windows Mixed Reality, but there is no download or install button. I also double checked my Store app library and confirmed it isn't there.

Update 2: I am now guessing that OpenXR for Windows Mixed Reality is not required with OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality installed.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Cab

[nikoel]

5 hours ago, Sr. said:

Someone please try this...

 

This is gonna be long winded and somewhat hair brained, but hear me out.

I've been awed by the clarity of this OXR experiment for a couple weeks now. But I got bored yesterday and decided to take a peak back at SteamVR/WMR for SteamVR.

So I toggled off OXR and any other mod I use in OvGME, did a DCS repair install and enabled the old FHolger FSR. At first I was thinking "ok...SVR never looked THIS bad" but then noticed fpsVR was reporting 9ms GPU frametime flying FA-18 over Caucuses... so I thought "maybe I have res set too low and saw that it was 100%/100% according to fpsVR.

So I began bumping it up, restarting DCS and checking the reported fpsVR resolution, trying to get the cockpit back to what I remember as "clear". I wasn't quite there yet so I increased the per game res to 150%. Restarted DCS, I'm still only 14-16ms GPUft according to fpsVR.

I'm scratching my head now because in the past, that would put me north of 20ms GPU frame time and the jittering would be unbearable.

 

But I kept going... in the end I was at 100% global and 200% per game. Cockpit was now looking very nice. But I still was sub 20 ms GPU frametime.

In the end fpsVR was reporting a res of 4604x4512 

So now I'm thinking, "has swapping back n forth like this somehow recalibrated my G2?"

I leave all that as it were, and begin the process to switch back to OpenXR. Toggle off all mods & OpenFSR, repair install...

Start OpenXR Tools and notice slider is still at 80% where I left it, but decide to move it to 100%. Launch DCS.

I immediately notice the opening menu is OUT FREAKING STANDING! I mean it looked good before but NOW!

So I checked the toolkit GUI, everything is how I'd left it. FPS at that screen is 90ms...fair enough.

 

Now I start my usual test mission, FA-18 free flight/ Caucuses.

I am blown away at the visuals.. more so than before. So I jump into Runway Start AH-64 Nevada and start flying around watching the fps counter while I tight circle over the nearest town/base... and it will not move (I'm not running MR), it stays right at 45fps and there is NO jitter.

But that's not the best part... the resolution "visually" is off the charts. I have NEVER seen so clearly in DCS. The MFDs in the A-10C II TGP & MAV are incredible. While flying around the Hog Nevada Free flight, Weapons Practice, I'm showing 88-90fps, smooth as glass.

I fire off a Mav and switch to weapon view (F6), scroll zoom in on the weapon and pan around it thinking I'm crazy, but I had never been able to read basically every bit of text on the missile, or zoom in THIS close with just the mouse scroll wheel. Usually that would require max scroll wheel zoom and press the VR zoom.

I'm not smart enough to figure out what has changed, but something clearly has.

 

I ran through several F-16 trainers just for fun and again, I was blown away at the visuals. Especially the details of enemy planes exploding and falling to earth in a trail of fire, smoke and parts. I KNOW I've never seen THIS detail before.

I wish I knew how to record what I'm seeing through the G2. It's simply incredible.

 

 

I got this right from the get go - and I have the same soft lock in the AH

Simple test is that If the difference between SteamVR and OpenXR doesn’t make you go “Wow!” The textures are not working right 

I can see the individual lines of the fingermarks and scratches on AR coatings of screens and gauges. I can see individual pieces of fluff on the seat of the F16. I can read the test switch panel and the takeoff checklist on the F14. I can see individual bristles of the throttle of the F18. The Viggen is even more Swedish and fabulous 

Edited April 17, 2022 by nikoel

[Salter10]

Thank you @DeltaMike @edmuss @speed-of-heat and others for your feedback. Jitter is still an issue. I could not find an efficient method to lock to 45fps without MR.

I reset my Steam version back to SteamVR while leaving the standalone in OXR. Despite jitter which as mentioned I'm still experiencing in OXR, there's simply no way I can go back to SteamVR at this point. The "out of the box" sharpness and clarity is winning me over. For now I'll live with world/ground stutter I suppose. 

I have a couple of questions: 

1. Should I continue to pursue locking to 45fps somehow? (I'm not running nor planning to run MR at this point) - having an RTX card I don't have the Chill utility and I believe that doing so in the OXR Toolkit only applies when using MR

2. This one is unrelated to OXR - is there a mod or utility allowing me to see my desktop in VR without quitting DCS?

Finally: as I'm struggling to optimize VR for DCS it dawned on me that it's best to treat this journey like a mini-game within this fabulous (yet graphics engine challenged) sim 

[speed-of-heat]

I am using MR, i cant life without it, alas, but i have also turned off any sharpening in the OXR side of the house and using the sharpening in Migimoto, which seems to be a good comprmise.

[j9murphy]

so I had this working, but...

I removed the mod with OvGME, cleaned the install, upgraded to the latest DCS Release, reenabled the mod in OvGME and now every time I start DCS, Steam starts.... what am I missing?  I've tried several times but steam runs every time:( 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by j9murphy

[DeltaMike]

2 hours ago, Salter10 said:

Thank you @DeltaMike @edmuss @speed-of-heat and others for your feedback. Jitter is still an issue. I could not find an efficient method to lock to 45fps without MR.

I reset my Steam version back to SteamVR while leaving the standalone in OXR. Despite jitter which as mentioned I'm still experiencing in OXR, there's simply no way I can go back to SteamVR at this point. The "out of the box" sharpness and clarity is winning me over. For now I'll live with world/ground stutter I suppose. 

I have a couple of questions: 

1. Should I continue to pursue locking to 45fps somehow? (I'm not running nor planning to run MR at this point) - having an RTX card I don't have the Chill utility and I believe that doing so in the OXR Toolkit only applies when using MR

2. This one is unrelated to OXR - is there a mod or utility allowing me to see my desktop in VR without quitting DCS?

Finally: as I'm struggling to optimize VR for DCS it dawned on me that it's best to treat this journey like a mini-game within this fabulous (yet graphics engine challenged) sim 

I spent a couple hours messing with it after your last post and I just don't see a way to eliminate all the stuttering in OXR.  I can get it to where I personally don't notice it if I'm not specifically looking for it, but I can't make it go away completely.  

You know, there's nothing wrong with WMR/SVR, I think we all agree it's got the best MR in the business and the Steam Console (with desktop access) is mighty handy at  times.  In terms of the image, look up ReShade, there's a couple of threads on this forum.  A variety of tools that allow you to sharpen up the image, adjust color, even do anti-aliasing (SMAA doesn't work half bad actually).  Likewise accessible through the SVR console.  

As for OXR, I still think the key to the whole ballgame is to tune your GPU to a target.  So we are no longer gonna say, "the faster the FPS the better."  It's more a question of whether your mean + 2sd is above some specific threshold. 

In your case, clearly you can't consistently beat 90fps, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Next question: can you consistently beat 60fps? Then try setting your headset to 60hz and see what shakes out.  That should take care of it.

If not, then you're like the rest of us, you're shooting for 45.  The key is to get as close to 45 as you can without going under. 

As for locking frames, I dunno man.  This is now the second time we've been through this and it's still not clear to me that it does anything. 

Back in the day, my RiftS literally would not run at 50 or 60fps.  It could only do 80 or 40, and maybe 20.  And that's it.  I've heard the G2 is the same way, so when your FPS counter is saying you know exactly 67.5fps, all that means is, half the time you're running at 90 and the other half at 45.  if so, that's why you're getting stutters.  Dollars to donuts, the people who enjoy OXR the most -- I would bet my own money on this -- are consistently running 46fps close to the ground.  Regardless of Chill or whatever they are using.  

Try this.  Get on the Syria map, and start dialing up your resolution (in the OpenXR Toolkit from the Microsoft Store) until you consistently hold 45fps near the ground.  Do the final tune by eye.  Turn it up until you see stutters, then turn it back down until they go away.  Done.*

I don't even bother to turn on my FPS counter any more.  I can tell just from looking at the ground how often I'm flipping between 45 and 30fps, it's that obvious.  

Up in the air you'll be running higher FPS, but then you can't see the stuttering up there anyway, so you're golden.  

If you can live with that, welcome to OXR.  If you can't, there's nothing wrong with SVR, especially now that we have native ReShade support.  Nothing to sneeze at there, not at all.  

-------

That SVR console is pretty unique, other than that, I've never seen any way to pull up anything in DCS, while in VR, other than DCS.  Easy enough to pull up the desktop in WMR, and I imagine we could get Virtual Desktop working with OpenComposite (hm... gotta try that) but the problem is, getting at it while DCS is running (and then being able to get back into DCS -- which I've tried. If my headset goes to sleep, it'll wake up in WMR home, and I can interact with the desktop, but I can't figure out how to get back into DCS from there)

--------

*(Try it without MSAA.  Once your resolution starts getting to the 150% range, the shimmering starts to go away.  It looks pretty awesome actually.)

Edited April 17, 2022 by DeltaMike

[Count Sessine]

Thanks for the work you guys have been doing on this. It has really made a difference to my VR performance across the board. Except for the Apache: all other modules perform 50+ FPS on my machine, but the Apache, with the same settings, can barely get over 15 FPS. Is this just teething problems for the new module or what do you guys think?

 

Edit: I turned down the render scale and that did the trick.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Count Sessine

[speed-of-heat]

i get more than 15FPS in the apache... 

 

[javelina1]

I go between 30 and 45 with the Apache.  Have settings at high or above for most things.  Just finished a mission (SP), where I took out a T90 and 3x T72's.  Was awesome flying through the trees, and planning my ambush points.  Those ungrateful b@st@rds fired at least 4 missiles at me throughout the ordeal, and forced me to take some serious evasive action.  Fortunately Betty gave me plenty of heads up prior.  Plus, I knew something was coming up, when the flares just started auto kicking off....

With OpenXR and the Toolkit, just note, 30 is the new 45... 

I have OpenXR at 120% for the Toolkit, no upscaling and sharpness at 60%.  DCS PD at 1.0, and other settings at high or above...

[firefox121]

hace 4 horas, j9murphy dijo:

so I had this working, but...

I removed the mod with OvGME, cleaned the install, upgraded to the latest DCS Release, reenabled the mod in OvGME and now every time I start DCS, Steam starts.... what am I missing?  I've tried several times but steam runs every time:( 

 

 

 

I you  put all the 3 files in the bin folder, you must do two things

1st . Disable WMR from start steam vr Mr when WMR starts

2nd. Make a Shortcut in your computer with DCS Open Beta game folder bin, then put in it "Your game path folder\bin\DCS.exe" --force_enable_VR with the semicolons included

This must start DSC without starting steam VR

Edited April 17, 2022 by firefox121

[Salter10]

Today I flew the AH-64 for the first time. What an awesome module. I used to fly full size RC hellis a decade ago. It helps! VR also helps. A sense of placement and position is enhanced. With OXR I get around 45fps (MR disabled) and all's smooth and beautiful - inside and out. This module was born for VR and OXR it seems. 

[0414 Wee Neal]

How do you turn of MR, in the toolkit?

 

[coldViPer]

1 hour ago, 0414 Wee Neal said:

How do you turn of MR, in the toolkit?

 

No, you can disable it in the OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality --> Motion Reprojection.

[j9murphy]

13 hours ago, firefox121 said:

I you  put all the 3 files in the bin folder, you must do two things

1st . Disable WMR from start steam vr Mr when WMR starts

2nd. Make a Shortcut in your computer with DCS Open Beta game folder bin, then put in it "Your game path folder\bin\DCS.exe" --force_enable_VR with the semicolons included

This must start DSC without starting steam VR

 

I got it worked out, chair-keyboard interface problem like most things lol

[Salter10]

17 hours ago, DeltaMike said:

Dollars to donuts, the people who enjoy OXR the most -- I would bet my own money on this -- are consistently running 46fps close to the ground.  Regardless of Chill or whatever they are using. 

Thanks, @DeltaMike. Now that I'm flying the AH-64 around 45fps - some call it "soft lock" - I see what you mean. All's nice and smooth. I'll stick with OXR for now because it's a one stop shop, more or less, for tuning that otherwise requires multiple MODS with SVR. As I said in my other reply, this process of optimizing VR is a mini game in and of itself. In 10 years or less, this thread will be a nostalgic "remember when?..." curiosity, just like 3D gaming in Windows 3.1

[DeltaMike]

27 minutes ago, Salter10 said:

Thanks, @DeltaMike. Now that I'm flying the AH-64 around 45fps - some call it "soft lock" - I see what you mean. All's nice and smooth. I'll stick with OXR for now because it's a one stop shop, more or less, for tuning that otherwise requires multiple MODS with SVR. As I said in my other reply, this process of optimizing VR is a mini game in and of itself. In 10 days or less, this thread will be a nostalgic "remember when?..." curiosity, just like 3D gaming in Windows 3.1

fyp

Awesome!  Yeah I mean in spite of page full of instructions, OXR is cleaner with fewer moving parts

[nikoel]

A bit of progress for those who are on the #strugglebus

Nvidea graphic card holders disable hardware-assisted GPU scheduling. This is especially the case if you run OpenKneeboard or any of the additional non-standard addons. Failure to do this can in some instances give you a penalty of around ~20FPS. The issue stems around multiple processes using Direct3D/2D concurrently 

[speed-of-heat]

17 minutes ago, nikoel said:

A bit of progress for those who are on the #strugglebus

Nvidea graphic card holders disable hardware-assisted GPU scheduling. This is especially the case if you run OpenKneeboard or any of the additional non-standard addons. Failure to do this can in some instances give you a penalty of around ~20FPS. The issue stems around multiple processes using Direct3D/2D concurrently 

pretty much everyone should disable HAGS... its not working right.. yet

 

[daemon1808]

Hi,

sorry if someone have mention it by now but 54 pages is more than I can handle to search for something:

Does someone make it work with DCS steam version?.

I have followed the guide and, though steam VR is not launched, Steam is opened as soon as I launch DCS from the .exe.

Once steam is launched it promt me the usual 3 options:

a) launch DCS only (no VR)

         1. with DCS VR settings tab "use VR HMD" option checked -->  open a black window that does not load anything, just keep on waiting for something (probably steamVR ^_^)

        2. without DCS VR settings tab "use VR HMD" option checked --> opens in 2D (as expected)

b) use steam VR -->  open a black window that does not load anything, just keep on waiting for something (probably steamVR ^_^)

c) use occulus vr --> N/A

Someone had more luck with DCS steam version?

Thanks

[DeltaMike]

I get the feeling a lot of Steam version users are running in to problems with command line parameters.  If so, you can either figure that stuff out, or let Skatezilla's app handle all that for you.  You still need to select the SteamVR runtime in Skatezilla, that'll get you running the right API.  From there, OpenComposite will take care of the rest. 

If that doesn't work you might need to look at your OXR install but I'd try that first

[tomeye]

Where is the latest version after the merge? is it still 0.6.3?

[speed-of-heat]

latest version is still 0.6.3 getting the merged dll out seems to be taking some time

[Rosebud47]

Not sure if it was mentioned before, but isn´t there a checkbox within steamVR configuration, which selects if SteamVR handles OpenXR Application in first place ( instead of OpenXR dev. tool. ). Just typing of my memory, as I remember there is a checkbox like this within SteamVR ( or SteamVR for WMR ). 

 

[DeltaMike]

1 hour ago, Rosebud47 said:

Not sure if it was mentioned before, but isn´t there a checkbox within steamVR configuration, which selects if SteamVR handles OpenXR Application in first place ( instead of OpenXR dev. tool. ). Just typing of my memory, as I remember there is a checkbox like this within SteamVR ( or SteamVR for WMR ). 

 

Yeah there's a place in SVR settings where you can change the runtime, I wouldn't go there if I were you

OXR bypasses SVR altogether, you could uninstall SVR and still run DCS with OpenCompositeACC. All it needs is the SVR API which has been thoughtfully provided by ED

Got a nickel says @daemon1808 has a "--force_steam_VR" flag in there somewhere.  That's gotta go

Edited April 18, 2022 by DeltaMike

[Rosebud47]

@DeltaMike Yeah, still got Steam and SteamVR installed, but don´t use it anymore since the OpenXR mod is running. Just remembered there is this checkbox in STV and thought it is worth to mention, as it might cause issues, if not deactivated. I´ve prevented Steam/SteamVR from loading automatically with windows, so I didn´t see Steam aynmore since OpenXR mod.