Jump to content

OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)


nikoel

Recommended Posts

For god sake, I won´t touch my settings anymore! 😆 😄

Resolution is at 100% and everything, which is important to me in flight and combat, is right on spot... well, under given circumstances of DCS performance ...

F-14b Tomcat   /   AV-8B Harrier   /   F-16C Viper  /   KA-50 Black Shark   /   Mi-24 Hind   /   MiG-21bis   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may be sold on running WMR at 60Hz .

I set OXR to 100%/100%, MR disabled and can buzz around Caucuses inverted and my framerate only ever dips from 60-59 for a brief millisecond. It's as smooth as I remember when I ran SteamVR with motion smoothing. And there's no fuzz or jitter when panning the cockpit. And as far as I can tell, no screen flicker like I recall with SVR running at 60.

Ryzen 7 5800X3D | 64GB DDR4 3600| MSI RTX 4080 16GB Ventus 3X OC  | Samsung 970 Evo 2TB NVME | HP Reverb G2 | DIY Head Tracker Cap | Logitech X-56 throttle | VKB NXT Premium |  Win 11

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

--Arthur C Clark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 7 horas, falcon_120 dijo:

Sorry if already mentioned in any of the pages, used the search function with no luck.

For step 1, I cannot find how to turn off SteamVR, basically when opening the windows mixed reality settings, I only see 4 tabs (environment, audio&speech, headset display and uninstall ) but not the Startup & desktop, none of them let me turn off the SteamVR option. Is there any other way to turn of SteamVR from launching when using DCS?

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk
 

In your WMR portal, click in the ... on the botton left corner,image.png then go to config,  there click on "inicio  y escritorio" something like start and desktop  and you must see this, put the option like me and you will prevent steamVR to open

image.png

The last one add the shortcut to your DCS.exe like I said before and there you go.

 

If you don't find the start desktop tab, try to unistall and reinstall WMR again.

Other solution could be trying to close steam and steamVR and maintain WMR working.  

Intel i9 10850k - MSI Tomahawk 490z - 64 GB DDR4 3000 - HP Reverb G2 - MSI optix Mag321curv 4k monitor - MSI RTX 3080ti - Winwing Orion Throttle base plus F18 stick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

My comment about dropping below 45 in SVR is that like you, I notice it straight away whereas Rosebud47 doesn't seem to mind it when it drops below a little:

 

ack

4 hours ago, edmuss said:

The OXR MR won't ever do a 60Hz step as it's not a whole fraction of 90 🙂

so this does not make sense to me, 60 is a legitimate whole fraction of 90... at least as much as 45 or 30... as for 22.5... 

4 hours ago, Rosebud47 said:

@speed-of-heat the 60Hz mode of Windows Mixed Reality headsets is different from the reprojection modes. 60Hz need to be set up in windows -->windows mixed reality configuration. It lowers the LCD display frequency generally. I didn´t tried it yet, so I´m also uninformed by reality, but it would be interesting if OpenXR reprojection adopts to the 60Hz mode by adding only 1 fake image, when reprojection puts it in 30fps mode, while in windows mixed reality 90hz mode and reprojection puts the FPS to 30, two fake images should be added.
This could be easily testet by just observing the FPS while in 60Hz WMR mode with reprojection, the fps should settle at 30. The perfomance gain the is 1/3 compared to 90Hz WMR mode.

I'm not sure ... what you are saying here 

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO

1569924735_WildcardsBadgerFAASig.jpg.dbb8c2a337e37c2bfb12855f86d70fd5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 1 hora, winghunter dijo:

I cant read any of your text with the dark forum setting

sorry 🤷‍♂️

hace 6 horas, speed-of-heat dijo:

so of course with SVR when it drops below 45, it is out of motion smoothing/reprojection and yo are instant slide show/juddering etc... whereas in OXR it drops to 30 so you sort of get the best of both worlds, until you get down to 22 and it all gets kind of horrid again. 

My hope (uninformed by any reality 😉 ) is   that we get a 90, 60, 45, 30, 22.5 stepping as well with MR just picking up every third frame, rather than every other frame. Overall this mod gives a nice balance and i hope it starts to deal with FSR a little better too,

There are some concerns for the future, noticeable Vulcan support, which I understand is not something that works currently... but ... last month i was extoling the virtues of VRPerfKit etc...  so who knows what will be next.

This is the point, motion smoothing / reprojection habe more levels in OXR over SVR... i have hope..🤞.. multicore + vulcan support = improve the DCS VR experience in the future 


Edited by Werewolf_fs
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

so this does not make sense to me, 60 is a legitimate whole fraction of 90... at least as much as 45 or 30... as for 22.5...

90/1 = 90

90/2 = 45

90/3 = 30

90/4 = 22.5

The subdivisions are only half, third and quarter.

I did ask the question of Mbucchia when you had initially raised the query a couple of weeks back but it's not possible 🙂


Edited by edmuss
  • Like 3

Ryzen7 7800X3D / RTX3080ti / 64GB DDR5 4800 / Varjo Aero / Leap Motion / Kinect Headtracking
TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. Thanks for asking, and for the explanation!

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO

1569924735_WildcardsBadgerFAASig.jpg.dbb8c2a337e37c2bfb12855f86d70fd5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course 60 is two thirds and a whole fraction, I think a brain fart prevented me calling it a unit fraction rather than a whole fraction.

It's been too many years since I had to do fraction definitions, I had to ask my teenage stepdaughter 😐


Edited by edmuss

Ryzen7 7800X3D / RTX3080ti / 64GB DDR5 4800 / Varjo Aero / Leap Motion / Kinect Headtracking
TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, edmuss said:

Of course 60 is two thirds and a whole fraction, I think a brain fart prevented me calling it a unit fraction rather than a whole fraction.

It's been too many years since I had to do fraction definitions, I had to ask my teenage stepdaughter 😐

😂

SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero
SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO

1569924735_WildcardsBadgerFAASig.jpg.dbb8c2a337e37c2bfb12855f86d70fd5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

60 is a fraction of 90, it's 2/3rds.

I had misnamed it as a whole fraction when I should have called it a unit fraction (where the numerator is 1).


Edited by edmuss

Ryzen7 7800X3D / RTX3080ti / 64GB DDR5 4800 / Varjo Aero / Leap Motion / Kinect Headtracking
TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All this talk about fractions has me thinking.

If you set your G2 at 90hz, it's gonna show an image every 11ms.  Question is, what.

If by some miracle you can consistently hold 90fps, even close to the ground, then it's gonna have a new image to display every 11ms and there shouldn't be any stuttering.

If you're running less than that, at times you're gonna display the same image twice.  Which could be problematic, stuttering-wise, unless (by some miracle) you're running precisely 45fps.  That way, you're displaying every image exactly twice, and there's no stuttering.

Now, if you're at 50fps, most of the time you'll display each image twice, but sometimes once.  At 70, you'll show a new image most of the time, but sometimes you'll show the same image twice.

Seems to me, if you wanted to induce microstutters on purpose, you'd tune your machine to run at exactly 60fps.  Which I think is what's happening to a lot of people who have high performance GPU's.

If that's the boat you're in, there are three options

  • turn down your settings and try to get as close to 90fps as you can.  More is better. 
  • turn up your settings and try to get as close to 45fps as you can.  But no less, under any circumstances. 
  • run your headset at 60hz

Which I suspect is why we have the option to run the headset at 60hz.

  • Thanks 1

Ryzen 5600X (stock), GBX570, 32Gb RAM, AMD 6900XT (reference), G2, WInwing Orion HOTAS, T-flight rudder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DeltaMike it´s really interesting to have a talk and some thoughts on this and it does help understanding all this stuff better to find the right buttons to push for an optimized experience.

But I understand the reprojection magic otherwise: 

If you running without reprojection at a target Hz of 90 and the system performance is noticable below 90fps, you would not perceive one same image twice, but one same image longer, while the movement in the scene goes on, which then is perceived as a stutter.

Running precisely at 45 fps and showing each rendered image twice is exactly what reprojection does. Reprojection fixes the FPS to 45 or with OXR at 30 and 22,5.

If you got 50FPS or 70FPS you´re not running reprojection and one and the same image stays longer the less fps the system performs. Longer means heavier stutters.

 

The option for 60Hz mode is meant for VR video/film. Also have to correct some theorizing posted before. I don´t know, if reprojection also works in 60Hz mode, but the question is obsolete as 60Hz mode with reprojection can´t be by any means better than 90Hz mode with reprojection, which is why 60Hz mode only could be better without reprojection.

In practice there is also no performance gain with 60Hz mode as we barely could get 60FPS without reprojection in DCS, only by reducing the resolution or dealing with scaling tools or other tricks like fixed foveated rendering, of which everyone has its downside in image quality again.

F-14b Tomcat   /   AV-8B Harrier   /   F-16C Viper  /   KA-50 Black Shark   /   Mi-24 Hind   /   MiG-21bis   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed, 60hz doesn't improve performance per se, however it does allow the refresh target to be met much more easily which does give a perfectly smooth, stutter free image with zero ghosting.

In SVR 60hz reprojection actually works incredibly well, much better than in OXR because it just locks down to 30fps and it's super smooth without spiralling down due to MR overheads.

edit: I'd also say that 60 fps is pretty achievable in DCS, I'm currently testing 90% resolution with high/medium settings and still getting 14-15ms in the A10C. Note that I do have FFR quality wide enabled on this one but frametime is good for 72fps.  This is also with shadows medium/default.

OpenComposite_DCS_20220420_826.jpg


Edited by edmuss
  • Like 2

Ryzen7 7800X3D / RTX3080ti / 64GB DDR5 4800 / Varjo Aero / Leap Motion / Kinect Headtracking
TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, DeltaMike said:

It's a really an elegant solution for DCS. I should ditch the shadows and do that. Shadows do precisely nothing for game play. 

Perhaps but they just look so dang good.

  • Like 2

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Rosebud47 In my opinion, with FFR set to highest quality preset (quality wide, like edmuss has set above), the main quality degradation is far enough into the blurry edges of the G2 lenses that I don't mind it vs the performance gain and the higher resolution it allows me to run to thereby increase sharpness in the sweet spot of the G2 lenses.

@DeltaMike I ditched shadows in VR awhile back and overall don't regret it, as this noticeably boosts the potential resolution I can set at a given frame rate target, and makes my frame rates more consistent.

If I set resolution in about 50 to 70 % range, I can often maintain 90 fps and use 90 Hz without MR, but I really like the increased sharpness and details of 100+ % res, and in some of my missions/scenarios I encounter CPU bottlenecks that drop me below 90fps regardless of graphics settings.  So for now, enjoying 60 fps / 60 Hz and trying to finally spend more time playing rather than tuning. 😉

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, falcon_120 said:

For step 1, I cannot find how to turn off SteamVR, basically when opening the windows mixed reality settings, I only see 4 tabs (environment, audio&speech, headset display and uninstall ) but not the Startup & desktop, none of them let me turn off the SteamVR option. Is there any other way to turn of SteamVR from launching when using DCS?

I think u may miss Mixed Reality Portal manual nessesery update  that was blocking Windows 10 from updates about year ago. After deep searching Ive finnaly discoverd this:

 


Edited by TylerPL666

HP Reverb G2, Samsung Odyssey Plus+, EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING 12GB GDDR6X, 32GB RAM, Intel i7-7700k 5.1GHz (OC), Hydro Series™ H100i v2 Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler, Buttkicker 2 Gamer+SSA Sound Module, Virpil MangoosT-CM2 Base+Grip, Logitech X56 Throttle +Rudder, Logitech Z906 5.1, LG OLED 55'' 4K 120Hz
A10-C II,  AH-64D,  AV88NA,  F-14A/B,  F-16C,  F/A-18C,  Ka-50,  Mi-24,  Mi-8,  SA342,  UH-1H,  SuperCarrier,  Persian Gulf,  Nevada,  Syria,  Simshaker for Aviators

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dburne said:

Perhaps but they just look so dang good.

same here, not giving them up.  They look great with my VR setup. 

Flying with OpenXR and Toolkit just fine.  120%, MR, no upscaling, and sharpening at 60%.  The rest of DCS at high or above.  I toggle between 30 and 45 FPS.  Smooth and fluid.  (with the Toolkit, 30 IS the new 45).  Note, this is with the Apache. With other mods, I keep consistently at 45.


Edited by javelina1

MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I am not to keen on the OpenXR It kind of looks to clinical for me I just gone back to SVR & the apache just feels so much sweeter I may come back but even at full stock with no mods I think ED have been optimizing again.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have my G2 set to 60 Hz and achieve 50 to 60 fps at 50% resolution.
However, the picture is not smooth at all.
If another F14 is flying next to me and I look out of the cockpit from the side, the image jerks so much that I get a headache after a while.
It doesn't help when I switch on MR. It has no effect.
I think something is completely wrong here.

(By the way, the topic already haunts my dreams 😜)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, edmuss said:

60Hz with reprojection is a super fast death spiral because the gaps between the refresh rate fraction brackets are so small you can turn an MFD on and drop a bracket 😄

90Hz only if you're using MR.

I'm not sure how much overhead SVR MR costs but it always worked out as needing a minimum of 55% of the refresh rate in fps to stay in reprojection i.e: 20ms/50fps for 90Hz and 30ms/33fps for 60Hz.  Below these values it become a stutterfest.

Not saying you are wrong Edmuss, but so far, I am just not seeing that, it works great for me at 60hz with MR enabled.....I was getting small amounts of stutter WITHOUT MR enabled ....turn it on and they went...? 

14 minutes ago, A.F. said:

I have my G2 set to 60 Hz and achieve 50 to 60 fps at 50% resolution.
However, the picture is not smooth at all.
If another F14 is flying next to me and I look out of the cockpit from the side, the image jerks so much that I get a headache after a while.
It doesn't help when I switch on MR. It has no effect.
I think something is completely wrong here.

(By the way, the topic already haunts my dreams 😜)

I think that the Nvidia control panel settings are key to much of this, I tried the other mod trending currently, the one that adds depth and in the process managed to lose my NVCP settings, and the performance was terrible........so I think that attention should be paid to these settings in particular and see what helps there and what does not.....

System specs: PC1 :Scan 3XS Ryzen 5900X, 64GB Corsair veng DDR4 3600, EVGA GTX 3090 Win 10, Quest Pro, Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo monitor. Tir5. PC2 ( Helo) Scan 3XS Intel 9900 K, 32 GB Ram, 2080Ti, 50 inch Phillips monitor

 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't expect you to be below 60fps with a 3090 hence you'll never get into the MR overhead spiral I'm describing 🙂

Out of interest, what appGPU and postGPU frametimes are you getting (reading from the OXRDT performance overlay).

Ryzen7 7800X3D / RTX3080ti / 64GB DDR5 4800 / Varjo Aero / Leap Motion / Kinect Headtracking
TM 28" Warthog Deltasim Hotas / DIY Pendular Rudders / DIY Cyclic Maglock Trimmer / DIY Abris / TM TX 599 evo wheel / TM T3PA pro / DIY 7+1+Sequential Shifter / DIY Handbrake / Cobra Clubman Seat
Shoehorned into a 43" x 43" cupboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...