OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[edmuss]

You have enabled motion reprojection in the OXRDT haven't you?

[The_Nephilim]

10 minutes ago, edmuss said:

You have enabled motion reprojection in the OXRDT haven't you?

is this it:

 

 

[edmuss]

Yup, that should engage the reprojection when below refresh.

When you say it doesn't lock to 30, what's it doing?

When you skip from one refresh rate bracket to another the FPS counter will take a second or two to settle and will show an averaged FPS over that time. However if you've set the lock in OXRTK then it should stay at 30 unless you can't meet the refresh rate fraction.

Using the OXRDT performance overlay look at appGPU and postGPU, add them together and if that's below the frametime for the bracket then it will stay where it is, if it's above then it will drop down a bracket.

Worked example 18ms appGPU + 5ms postGPU = 23ms totalGPU. Because the 23ms is above the frametime for 45fps (22ms) then it will lock down to the 30fps bracket.

I can't explain why yours isn't locking to a fraction though.

[falcon_120]

Amazing change! Just managed to make it work, from a very quick test two good things:

-Shimmering/flashing on loading screen is gone, which is great!
-F16 free flight mission in Mariana Island, I was getting 30fps with ghosting, now I'm getting 45 but most important, the general fluidity is much better!

I hope ED incorporates this natively along the way at some point

PD: 1080 Ti and reverb G2 user.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[DeltaMike]

55 minutes ago, falcon_120 said:

Amazing change! Just managed to make it work, from a very quick test two good things:

-Shimmering/flashing on loading screen is gone, which is great!
-F16 free flight mission in Mariana Island, I was getting 30fps with ghosting, now I'm getting 45 but most important, the general fluidity is much better!

I hope ED incorporates this natively along the way at some point

PD: 1080 Ti and reverb G2 user.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk
 

Score! 

Loading up is way less of a chore in every respect

Not totally clear how/if/when Vulkan is going to support OXR.  Seems like they are going to have to figure something out, but it's all up in the air right now.  

How did you get Marianas working so well?   Post up your settings, I imagine there are a lot of 1080ti users out there who would love to see how you did it

[M1Combat]

What should the custom render scale be set to on a Reverb G2 to get native res?? Just 100%?

[sze5003]

Is there still an issue with updating EVGA precision x software to the latest version and running open xr? I remember reading this somewhere so I have not been updating the EVGA tool because of this.

[edmuss]

21 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

What should the custom render scale be set to on a Reverb G2 to get native res?? Just 100%?

100% will set it to the native resolution of 3160x3092, leaving it at default will set a resolution based on the amount of VRAM you have.

[oakdown]

10 hours ago, Gabi_tro said:

Any idea why I get this error?

If you go to page 16 and scroll down until you see my username, I answered this for a guy and it seemed to work (specifically error -13) in our cases it had to do with remnant files from other vr mods

[Sr.]

1 hour ago, edmuss said:

100% will set it to the native resolution of 3160x3092, leaving it at default will set a resolution based on the amount of VRAM you have.

You mean the render slider in OXRTools? I unchecked custom and show 3152x3092. I get the same with the slider at 100%

Does that sound right for 16GB VRAM?

Revisited the P-51D today. Man what a treat to fly that baby now!

Edited April 21, 2022 by Sr.

[oakdown]

I saw another guy ask the question quite a few pages back and now I've lost the post, but does anyone else experience the f11 key not working following installation of the mod?

I don't think the tools itself is suspect, as I've had the tools installed but disabled and the behavior remains the same but my f11 key (usually used for backing out of radio menu options). No longer works... Anyone else experience that or a workaround? 

[Hammer1-1]

Just now, oakdown said:

I saw another guy ask the question quite a few pages back and now I've lost the post, but does anyone else experience the f11 key not working following installation of the mod?

I don't think the tools itself is suspect, as I've had the tools installed but disabled and the behavior remains the same but my f11 key (usually used for backing out of radio menu options). No longer works... Anyone else experience that or a workaround? 

honestly I just use the mouse to click on those in VR. that always works for me.

[The_Nephilim]

4 hours ago, edmuss said:

Yup, that should engage the reprojection when below refresh.

When you say it doesn't lock to 30, what's it doing?

When you skip from one refresh rate bracket to another the FPS counter will take a second or two to settle and will show an averaged FPS over that time. However if you've set the lock in OXRTK then it should stay at 30 unless you can't meet the refresh rate fraction.

Using the OXRDT performance overlay look at appGPU and postGPU, add them together and if that's below the frametime for the bracket then it will stay where it is, if it's above then it will drop down a bracket.

Worked example 18ms appGPU + 5ms postGPU = 23ms totalGPU. Because the 23ms is above the frametime for 45fps (22ms) then it will lock down to the 30fps bracket.

I can't explain why yours isn't locking to a fraction though.

it just stays like I dont have MR on. the FPS stay at like 38-40fps

[The_Nephilim]

4 hours ago, edmuss said:

appGPU and postGPU

the syria mission I ran these where appgpu -29ms    postgpu - 29ms  so I guess it is so high it just does not kick in but my fps are at 35-37 and look pretty smoth and the fps increase when /I take off

[falcon_120]

8 hours ago, DeltaMike said:

Score! 

Loading up is way less of a chore in every respect

Not totally clear how/if/when Vulkan is going to support OXR.  Seems like they are going to have to figure something out, but it's all up in the air right now.  

How did you get Marianas working so well?   Post up your settings, I imagine there are a lot of 1080ti users out there who would love to see how you did it

Actually i have most setting on Low, except for vis range on Medium, Textures on medium, water on medium and Clouds on standard. The rest is all Low (No MSAA). I have to live with that to play a fluid game

[edmuss]

8 hours ago, The_Nephilim said:

the syria mission I ran these where appgpu -29ms    postgpu - 29ms  so I guess it is so high it just does not kick in but my fps are at 35-37 and look pretty smoth and the fps increase when /I take off

Your postGPU shouldn't be that high if you have reprojection turned on. There is a bug in OXRDT performance overlay that reads the postGPU the same as appGPU when reprojection is turned off.

Does the red box say something like tex mapping or reproj?

[dburne]

12 hours ago, sze5003 said:

Is there still an issue with updating EVGA precision x software to the latest version and running open xr? I remember reading this somewhere so I have not been updating the EVGA tool because of this.

No the Open XR Developer Tools guy issued an update like the following day of that being reported that fixed it.

Edited April 21, 2022 by dburne

[sze5003]

No the Open XR Developer Tools guy issued an update like the following day of that being reported that fixed it.

That's good to know, thanks! Thank goodness for open xr, I was about to throw in the towel with the G2 and dcs VR! No matter how much hardware I threw at it, it was still a headache to configure and have it work for a month or two until another wmr or steam update or dcs update came along and tanked performance.

[ShaunX]

I'm late to the party here because I really couldn't see how this could improve on what I considered was excellent visual quality and performance with my 5900X/3090 config.

Couldn't have been more wrong.

With OXR 100%, OXRTK NIS 60% sharpening (no upscaling), MR on and unlocked, my regular high DCS settings, MSAAx2, no shader mods and now flat terrain shadows too (!!!) the performance is pretty similar, but visually there's just a massive improvement in clarity and with much less aliasing.

Then I turned OXR to 150% and ditched MSAA. Wow. visual quality is astonishing and my previously small G2 sweet spot is significantly bigger. My 3-9 line with MR is solid at 45FPS in almost all scenarios. I've turned civilian traffic to high because it's clarity at range is a real immersion enhancement.

I was still getting micro stutters on the 3-9 low over cities and Guam, presumably flipping between 45 and 30 fps so I tried fixing MR at 30 FPS in OXRTK. Now it's smooth as a baby's bottom everywhere and I honestly can't tell the difference between locked 30 and 45. Only exception is fast aircraft flybys which ghost as I suppose you'd expect at 30 fps.

Really thought I'd still miss FHolgar's CAS Colour Reshade sharpener, but even that is blown away at these settings.

Only thing I do miss is Necksafer, but I note Nobiwan has already started discussions with mbucchia in his Discord so may be on the horizon.

Massive thank you to @nikoel and @edmuss for the excellent guides.

[DeltaMike]

1 hour ago, ShaunX said:

 

Then I turned OXR to 150% and ditched MSAA. Wow. visual quality is astonishing and my previously small G2 sweet spot is significantly bigger. 

 

Deserves emphasis imo.  Undersampling has disproportionate effects on the sweet spot.  Nice to hear that supersampling does the same thing, in a good way.  

Unclear to me what MSAA is doing for us precisely.  It's probably not that different from plain old generic supersampling.  Pound for pound I got the feeling MSAA worked a little better than SS in SVR but maybe not so much in OXR.  With the added bonus of being, SS is easier to fine tune

 

21 hours ago, edmuss said:

Yes there is in openxr (and I think in openvr), it's just in the background and you don't have any control over it.

edit: this is why openxr is smoother at 45 than 50, because you've hit the vysnc fraction.

 

I guess maybe if we held perfectly still there wouldn't be any v-sync action going on.  But, when does that ever happen in VR.  Every time you move your head, asynchronous time warp (or whatever they call it) is dancing with the CPU in the background

So I guess it's not that the headset wants to run at 45fps; it's that the CPU is, for all practical purposes always on a timer and at 45 fps everything is synchronized even with MR turned off, no?

I'm coming around to the idea that some forms of microstutter are worse than others.  Seems to me it's a lot more annoying to drop a frame than to get one early.  For years I've been tuning to a frame time of 20ms, so I'm sure I'm not right on 45fps 99% of the time.  Maybe just at the right end of the spectrum?  Maybe? And perhaps an explanation for the perception that there's a sharp dropoff in image quality below 45fps

MR is a great solution for a lot of problems, and it sounds like people are warming up to it. Only reason I turned it off is, I've been flying the Hornet almost exclusively lately and I'm head down in the cockpit messing around with the computer all the time.  Who looks out the window, right?  I treat myself like like I used to treat NoWheels when I was flying RIO for him.  "Turn about 10 degrees to the north and don't do any of that pilot ****, put it on autopilot if you have to.  I'm busy back here."   

[johnbowzer]

I did a search, didn't find a mention that defined it... what is the "3-9 line"?

[Sr.]

6 minutes ago, DeltaMike said:

Deserves emphasis imo.  Undersampling has disproportionate effects on the sweet spot.  Nice to hear that supersampling does the same thing, in a good way.  

Unclear to me what MSAA is doing for us precisely.  It's probably not that different from plain old generic supersampling.  Pound for pound I got the feeling MSAA worked a little better than SS in SVR but maybe not so much in OXR.  With the added bonus of being, SS is easier to fine tune

 

I guess maybe if we held perfectly still there wouldn't be any v-sync action going on.  But, when does that ever happen in VR.  Every time you move your head, asynchronous time warp (or whatever they call it) is dancing with the CPU in the background

So I guess it's not that the headset wants to run at 45fps; it's that the CPU is, for all practical purposes always on a timer and at 45 fps everything is synchronized even with MR turned off, no?

I'm coming around to the idea that some forms of microstutter are worse than others.  Seems to me it's a lot more annoying to drop a frame than to get one early.  For years I've been tuning to a frame time of 20ms, so I'm sure I'm not right on 45fps 99% of the time.  Maybe just at the right end of the spectrum?  Maybe? And perhaps an explanation for the perception that there's a sharp dropoff in image quality below 45fps

MR is a great solution for a lot of problems, and it sounds like people are warming up to it. Only reason I turned it off is, I've been flying the Hornet almost exclusively lately and I'm head down in the cockpit messing around with the computer all the time.  Who looks out the window, right?  I treat myself like like I used to treat NoWheels when I was flying RIO for him.  "Turn about 10 degrees to the north and don't do any of that pilot ****, put it on autopilot if you have to.  I'm busy back here."   

I ditched MR for running the G2 at 60Hz and couldn't be happier. It allows me to also utilize the anti shaking feature in OXR, which is a plus for PointCtrl while typing on the Apache KBU.

6 minutes ago, johnbowzer said:

I did a search, didn't find a mention that defined it... what is the "3-9 line"?

Looking to your 3-9 o'clock from the cockpit view.

[DeltaMike]

@Sr. -- what settings are you running? 

[Rosebud47]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb DeltaMike:

Deserves emphasis imo.  Undersampling has disproportionate effects on the sweet spot.  Nice to hear that supersampling does the same thing, in a good way.  

Unclear to me what MSAA is doing for us precisely.  It's probably not that different from plain old generic supersampling.  Pound for pound I got the feeling MSAA worked a little better than SS in SVR but maybe not so much in OXR.  With the added bonus of being, SS is easier to fine tune

As far as I know, Antialiasing ( MSAA ) only smoothens the "stair step effect" of straight lines in the image, like the edges of a 3D object or the markings on the runways. I don´t know for sure about that, but I think Antialiasing only samples such straight lines and sharp edges up. For me MSAA 2x is a must in DCS, as it reduces a lot of shimmering effects in scenes at respectively low impact on performance. Whereas MSAA 2x is significantly in DCS, MSAA 4x does not appear to me like a next level up from MSAA 2x.
Supersampling (SS) then samples the whole frame up including the textures, what is more taxing the performance, but surely result in an overall sharper and more detailed image with less "stair step effects" which might translate into shimmering edges in VR... but I might be wrong in my understanding.

The ´Asynchroneous Time Warp´ is just how Oculus labeled the method of reprojection, when it first came out - it´s a quite genius technique to grant a smooth experience in VR, where such high FPS (90) and so much performance is needed for an enjoyable experience.

After ´Asynchroneous Time Warp´, Oculus labeled their method to ´Asynchroneous Space Warp´ which added some techniques to it, to smooth the head movement beside the general movement in a scene.

Valve´s / SteamVR´s pendant to that technique is labeled ´Asynchroneous Reprojection´, later Valve added ´Motion Smoothing´ as additional option in SteamVR to smoothen the head movement. I don´t know if it is meanwhile intergrated or still an option to add in SteamVR.

Windows now seem to label their pendant of that technique ´Motion Reprojection´ for Windows Mixed Reality or was it ´Motion smoothing´? I´m already confused about those labels, but in general the base technique is all the same, but I assume each one developed their own algorithms for it.   

 

[nikoel]

16 minutes ago, Rosebud47 said:

The ´Asynchroneous Time Warp´ is just how Oculus labeled the method of reprojection, when it first came out - it´s a quite genius technique to grant a smooth experience in VR, where such high FPS (90) and so much performance is needed for an enjoyable experience.

After ´Asynchroneous Time Warp´, Oculus labeled their method to ´Asynchroneous Space Warp´ which added some techniques to it, to smooth the head movement beside the general movement in a scene.

Valve´s / SteamVR´s pendant to that technique is labeled ´Asynchroneous Reprojection´, later Valve added ´Motion Smoothing´ as additional option in SteamVR to smoothen the head movement. I don´t know if it is meanwhile intergrated or still an option to add in SteamVR.

Windows now seem to label their pendant of that technique ´Motion Reprojection´ for Windows Mixed Reality or was it ´Motion smoothing´? I´m already confused about those labels, but in general the base technique is all the same, but I assume each one developed their own algorithms for it.