what are your thoughts so far?

[Rogue Trooper]

Waiting for BS3.

Very much hoping the Black shark will get a more complex modelling, like the Hind and Apache.

Without the president S system, no matter how manoeuvrable the KA-50 is, the Apache is simply awe inspiring! 

The Apache has such presence on the battle field... It pops up and immediately it knows what is around it, simply from the hard work the enemy does!

Very much an asset to a slow and low moving spider, its web of information tingling.... fantastic!

Flight model is the best in DCS!

Edited May 25, 2022 by Rogue Trooper

[Hippo]

The helicopter, flight model and its systems, especially in VR, are sublime.

I do have concerns regarding fundamental design choices made for the single-player experience.  It seems to me that this module was designed to be used in co-op multiplayer and this has negative consequences for the single-player experience.  IMHO, there should have been concessions to realism where in single-player you're more a "guiding spirit" rather than forced to be strictly pilot OR c/pg (e.g. it should be possible to fly from the c/pg seat using the pilot's controls).  Like the classic DI / Jane's sims used to do it.  Why not have George constantly be scanning for and calling out targets (with realistic time and visibility constraints), rather than a magical button push which instantly provides a long list of targets?  I could go on....

If you want to be doing as much of everything as possible in single-player (as I do), you are put through an obstacle course of switching seats / a poorly designed interface / and an AI that often cannot respond quickly enough or appropriately.

The George AI still needs a lot of work.  It has occasionally dropped me out of the sky when transitioning to a hover (bit of a pain in the middle of a long mission).  When moving from hover to flight, it seems to need to yaw to the right before coming back to course (why?).  And then there are mysterious and unrequested altitude changes.  I'm pretty sure it can also see through trees.

Still, very much enjoying the apache, and looking forward to what's to come.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Hippo

[Kharrn]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Hippo:

 (e.g. it should be possible to fly from the c/pg seat using the pilot's controls). 

Why not have George constantly be scanning for and calling out targets (with realistic time and visibility constraints), rather than a magical button push which instantly provides a long list of targets?  I could go on....

Just to let you know:

You can fly from CP/G in SP. (MP solution will take a while i guess but i hope for the best)

Press 2, then C. You have to assign all controls in the AH64 CP/G control tab though, it wont "use" the Pilot setup controls (because it is strictly separated which is very good IMO)

 

George is still very much WiP...

vor einer Stunde schrieb Hippo:

If you want to be doing as much of everything as possible in single-player (as I do), you are put through an obstacle course of switching seats / a poorly designed interface / and an AI that often cannot not respond quickly enough or appropriately.

The George AI still needs a lot of work.  It has occasionally dropped me out of the sky when transitioning to a hover (bit of a pain in the middle of a long mission).  When moving from hover to flight, it seems to need to yaw to the right before coming back to course (why?).  And then there are mysterious and unrequested altitude changes.  I'm pretty sure it can also see through trees.

Still, very much enjoying the apache, and looking forward to what's to come.

Yes, the interface could be better, but: WiP

Yaw to the right might occure because you have to yaw left during hover. So maybe overcompensation. IMHO George should not be "the best fu Pilot since Red Baron" (yeah i know different aircrafts ;)) and therefore should struggle like we do - sure he should not ground you during "normal" flight.

And George follows the same "rules" DCS AI has for decades. e.g. seeing through trees. 

Just my 2 cent on this

Dont get me wrong, there is A LOT they have to do/ change on this module, but the overall quality is already overwhelming.

At least you enjoy it too

K

[Dagobert666]

So I agree with the previous speakers. George AI is absolutely minimally useful at the moment. George allows a solo player to be trained, but flying a real mission with him isn't much fun. If you don't know exactly where the targets are, then he's absolutely no help. I keep getting shot down because I miss enemy units, then get way too close. And I'm having a hard time getting used to hitting the "George look there" button like a berseker every 5 seconds. Giving George the ability to scout ahead and independently find and report enemies and threats should be an absolute development priority. Just like the ability to tell friend from foe. Just so much on this subject.

I also want to talk about the nightmare that the AAA (and handguns) accuracy of ground forces. It makes no difference what SKILL LEVEL I set the enemy AAA (and handguns) to. As soon as you get in range, you will be hit by either the first or second salvo. With such an AIMBOT accuracy I have no problem at high SKILL levels but at the low ones, the precision should be SIGNIFICANTLY lower. The whole thing strikes me only now in the AH64. In the A10, F14 and the F18 the problem with the Aimbot AI wasn't so noticeable because you're much, much further away and also much, much faster.

Otherwise I like the AH64 very much. There are still one or the other notch in the flight model. But I'm sure that can still be polished out.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dagobert666

[Scaley]

Agree with a lot of what is written above. George at the moment is fairly useless in a lot of situations. I suspect he will get a lot better during the course of the module. Given the main problems now are design choices by the people that coded him (especially in the PCG role) rather than his actually not being "able" to do something. For example, given he can scan and find all targets, and put them in a list, there is no reason he couldn't be doing that automatically every few seconds, other than you need an external macro to make him do it right now.

My guess is that once George's CPG brain is better anyone in SP will spend most of their time in the back seat directing George, and only swap to the front for exceptional circumstances. 

The AIMBOT stuff really just need a very basic AI change to introduce a much bigger random dispersion on the round of ground units. It would also help if the aim-point of all DCS AI wasn't the centre of the pilots head, and was instead the centre of the aircraft model, but that might need quite a significant code change. 

[Floyd1212]

I think having George "always scanning" and finding every target out there with his super-human capabilities is going a bit too far.  Maybe as a checkbox item on the Gameplay options screen, after "Immortal" and "Unlimited Ammo".

Finding targets in the battlefield as a CPG can be hard, especially if you don't have assists like show labels, or enemy units shown on the F10 map.  I think at least requiring the pilot to know where the targets are, then have to direct George to look there, is reasonable.

[Scaley]

I don't think people are asking for George to be constantly scanning AND finding every single target instantaneously as he does now. What would probably be sensible is if George (as the CPG with the TADS) was able to use the sensors he had to find things without the Pilot (who shouldn't have to be working to find distant targets) telling him where to look. I think most people are asking for a more realistic solution, not an "easy mode".

[Floyd1212]

13 hours ago, Scaley said:

For example, given he can scan and find all targets, and put them in a list, there is no reason he couldn't be doing that automatically every few seconds

Sorry, I thought that was exactly what you were asking for.  Maybe you were just pointing out that it would be possible to do so.

[Scaley]

7 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

Sorry, I thought that was exactly what you were asking for.  Maybe you were just pointing out that it would be possible to do so.

Always scanning, yes, like a human. Always scanning using exactly the current logic where he has infinite vision and detects everything, No. I didn't clarify that since it seemed to follow from the discussion. 

[Hippo]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:51 AM, Kharrn said:

Just to let you know:

You can fly from CP/G in SP. (MP solution will take a while i guess but i hope for the best)

Press 2, then C. You have to assign all controls in the AH64 CP/G control tab though, it wont "use" the Pilot setup controls (because it is strictly separated which is very good IMO)

 

 

Thanks, yes, I did know this, but I had two issues with it:

1. Having to request control, going back and forth to George, and trim / collective positions getting out of sync.  Cumbersome.

2. In the name of realism, the helo isn't usually flown in this way with cpg and pilot handing each other control over and over through a mission.

I play single player only and my ideal would be to fly the ah64d as I did the ka50, trying to manage everything.  Obvs with 2-seat helo this is not realistic, but imho "cheats" should exist to help make this as viable as possible.

Anyway, after a long session last night, I am stumbling my way to a system that works for me:  don't use George at all, at least not as a pilot, turn off the option to hand control to George automatically, and fly the helo mostly from the CPG seat.

Also I only just updated yesterday and having the ability to use the AP to hold a hover is extremely helpful, this will only improve as more AP modes are implemented.

Since it seems that there is considerable improvement to George as AI CPG coming, and 2 above is in practice a non-issue, the concerns expressed in my post above are already starting to melt away.

Does anyone know if it's possible (in the CPG seat) to display flight symbology only on the IHADSS whilst at the same time operating the TADS on the TDU?  If not, this is the sort of "assist" that would make the single-player experience a bit more workable.

[Kharrn]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Hippo:

Thanks, yes, I did know this, but I had two issues with it:

1. Having to request control, going back and forth to George, and trim / collective positions getting out of sync.  Cumbersome.

2. In the name of realism, the helo isn't usually flown in this way with cpg and pilot handing each other control over and over through a mission.

I play single player only and my ideal would be to fly the ah64d as I did the ka50, trying to manage everything.  Obvs with 2-seat helo this is not realistic, but imho "cheats" should exist to help make this as viable as possible.

Anyway, after a long session last night, I am stumbling my way to a system that works for me:  don't use George at all, at least not as a pilot, turn off the option to hand control to George automatically, and fly the helo mostly from the CPG seat.

Also I only just updated yesterday and having the ability to use the AP to hold a hover is extremely helpful, this will only improve as more AP modes are implemented.

Since it seems that there is considerable improvement to George as AI CPG coming, and 2 above is in practice a non-issue, the concerns expressed in my post above are already starting to melt away.

Does anyone know if it's possible (in the CPG seat) to display flight symbology only on the IHADSS whilst at the same time operating the TADS on the TDU?  If not, this is the sort of "assist" that would make the single-player experience a bit more workable.

Yeah there are a lot of "issues" that have to be adressed to make George a better Pilot and a smoother "transition" between handover etc. But George is really just learning to walk, though he was born crawling, which is great IMHO. The rest will come during early access i assume

I will not go into deep on the topic of flying the AH64D "single seated" (like the KA-50), just one thing: go into multiplayer and look for someone who wants to fly with you, either as CP/G or Pilot. Trust me, that experience is the tip of flight simulation! Maybe you even buddy up and can fly "coop" missions, which also a lot more fun then flying SP. This bird is a 2-seater build from the beginning just like that. It is NOT intended to be flown single-seat. A big thanks to ED that they give us AI like George, Jester and Petro(something ^^ sry)... they could just drop a 2-seater without AI and say "live with it"..... Ok longer then intended but these are my 2 cents on this topic and i wont elaborate on it.

Great that you personally found a working way/tactic to use the AH64D ins SP from a "single" seat and good to hear that EA is also making progress for you personally.

We will see if we will get "special options" to make it more "single-seat-friendly" but i think that is a topic for the end of EA when Flight Model, SCAS and George are finalized.

AFAIK you cant operate the TADS on the TDU while IHADSS shows Flight Symbology. If you use the PNV Video Select Button (above TDU monitor) you will get the Symbology on the TDU but not on the IHADSS (i assume from the P-HMD but not sure). Maybe use MPD FLT page as a workaround? (i know it does not help as much as the sym in the IHADSS)

Sry for bad english, i had to hurry ^^

K

[Hippo]

12 minutes ago, Kharrn said:

 just one thing: go into multiplayer and look for someone who wants to fly with you
 

Thanks for the reply.  It's not that I have anything against co-op multiplayer.  It's just that I'd want to do it properly, and I simply don't have the time to dedicate to the commitment required for this.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Hippo

[Moxica]

I've been dreaming about this since Jane's apache longbow/gold got unplayable through windows. Then this came up at the same time as I found Oculus quest 2 to be within my budget. (I had to get a new graphics card as well, but worth it)
So I am overwhelmed by the package; The quality, the philosophy of the designers/devs, the incredible attention to detail.
I got so exited I got the F16, F18 and the A10 as they were on an irresistible sale in may. Plus a few terrains. A notch better than "USAF" from the ninetees.

I can remember the unbearable rotor sound-loop of the Janes AH 64. It wore me down. This module has excellent sound, still I really do get a few deja vu's from time to time when in cpg seat and communicating with George. There must be some code there from that old game.
This module seem to have less bugs than the other ones I bought, in spite of being "younger".
Today was one of those rare days of summer-in-may here up north in Norway. Still, as I left work, I knew I was going to get straight into the Oculus when I got home.  
Still I am erh.. "surprised" of how many times I have to "load". Starting game loads twice. Starting a mission has what? three loading screens? Four?   

Edited May 30, 2022 by Moxica

[Synoopy]

Once I set my curves to the right level and fixed the trim in special - I am hovering and landing like a breeze.  The hardest thing was to find info on what to do from the pilot seat since I only play by myself. Most information is for someone lasing from CPG - but I searched until I found out what I am doing.  The other issue I had was having George consistently fire the Hell Fires - but I found out what my issue was - not obtaining a good rectangle, this lets me know George is ready to fire.  I think sometimes I may not have been in visual range, obstacles, for him to fire. And he requires a perfect shot. I like the Apache so much that I am neglecting the F-18 hornet.  BTW - if you don't have a butt kicker get one - it was made for the Apache - it's okay in the F-18 but i feel like I'm really flying in the Apache.  The rumble from the rotors in my chair is awesome.  And the kick i get when I fire missiles is double the fun.