w.i.p M230 via TADS compensating rather little of helicopter inertia intended?

[MRTX]

I was just wondering if the rather high lead you have to give as a CPG when using the M230 with the TADS is intended? I don't know if its just me or the way the helicopter is simulating it, but in almost all conditions even at lower speeds (<90kts.) my rounds always seem to be at least 10+ meters of target. I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong (LMC on, keeping the target lased and engaging well below 1500 meters) but i haven't seen this much lead being required in any guntapes.

[Wrench]

TADS does not calculate lead or superelevation for the gun.

[MRTX]

Coming back to this I'm wondering if this statement is really true. I could definitely mix things up, but the manual states qoute: "The LMC provides target state estimation in the form of lead angle calculations when the CPG is using the TADS for targeting for gun or rocket engagements against moving targets." Yes this doesn't directly mention anything about stationary targets, but nevertheless having basic lead and superelevation being calculated at every state of the LMC being active would obviously be a requirement for the system compensating for a moving target and therefore also be used when engaging stationary targets.

What i somewhat suspect is that maybe the LMC in the way ED modeled it, could either over or under compensate for lead and elevation since the overall spread of the M230 as seen in DCS seems completely fine to me. 

[Zergburger]

On 3/23/2022 at 4:02 AM, MRTX said:

Coming back to this I'm wondering if this statement is really true. I could definitely mix things up, but the manual states qoute: "The LMC provides target state estimation in the form of lead angle calculations when the CPG is using the TADS for targeting for gun or rocket engagements against moving targets." Yes this doesn't directly mention anything about stationary targets, but nevertheless having basic lead and superelevation being calculated at every state of the LMC being active would obviously be a requirement for the system compensating for a moving target and therefore also be used when engaging stationary targets.

What i somewhat suspect is that maybe the LMC in the way ED modeled it, could either over or under compensate for lead and elevation since the overall spread of the M230 as seen in DCS seems completely fine to me. 

Im curious if we need a more complex LMC simulation, or if IAT needs to be implemented for proper lead calculations for gun to begin to happen.

on a tangential topic, im curious if hellfire has any proportional nav for moving targets--SAL or Radar both.

[Zergburger]

can we either move this to wishlist or unsolve it because it appears we have conflicting info going on here?

[MRTX]

Yeah, hopefully ED takes another look at this. 

[BIGNEWY]

LMC still has some more work to come so please wait for future updates during early access. 

thank you

[S. Low]

Per casmo and other pilots, the real aircraft has a system called Target State Estimator that makes necessary calculations and adjustments to put the rounds onto the lazed or ranged target. This is apparently coming sometime later in early access. 
 

edit: there’s also either LMC as BN mentioned or possibly a system called image auto tracker that keeps the crosshairs ground stabilized while the aircraft is in motion. In either case it is not implemented yet  - spoke with another pilot. It’s the LMC that will stabilize your crosshairs. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by S. Low

[RodBorza]

7 hours ago, S. Low said:

Per casmo and other pilots, the real aircraft has a system called Target State Estimator that makes necessary calculations and adjustments to put the rounds onto the lazed or ranged target. This is apparently coming sometime later in early access. 
 

edit: there’s also either LMC as BN mentioned or possibly a system called image auto tracker that keeps the crosshairs ground stabilized while the aircraft is in motion. In either case it is not implemented yet  - spoke with another pilot. It’s the LMC that will stabilize your crosshairs. 

 

It makes sense. I hope it is what you said. I tried the gun with the TADS as CPG after the hotfix, and...even when lasing the target it stills send the bullets to the right and long of the target.

[S. Low]

10 hours ago, RodBorza said:

It makes sense. I hope it is what you said. I tried the gun with the TADS as CPG after the hotfix, and...even when lasing the target it stills send the bullets to the right and long of the target.

So if the aircraft is moving at all, regardless of your laze it’ll fling the bullets off target a bit because the target state estimator isn’t there yet. For now try to shoot head on, lower speed, or from hover. Also if you’re doing CPG work try using the LMC - it’ll keep your aim really stable. Press it once and don’t touch joystick, keeps the tads in place while aircraft moves 

[MRTX]

This might sound like a dumb question, but whats the point of having the gun if what eventually makes it reliable isn't implemented yet? (hopefully ED does their magic ASAP)

[S. Low]

4 minutes ago, MRTX said:

This might sound like a dumb question, but whats the point of having the gun if what eventually makes it reliable isn't implemented yet? (hopefully ED does their magic ASAP)

It’s still usable and fun. In multicrew last night we were going slow about 30kn in an orbit around a town about 2500 meters away. I was hitting enemy infantry in the streets and alleyways between two story buildings. Just so long as the airspeed was low and the angle wasn’t too bad. And I had to use more ammo. Worked though