investigating VR FPS

[Niehorst]

Didn't even looked for FPS by now. Because if I do, the tweaking starts again. 

I was crazy enough to invest in a RTX3090 at the beginning of last year (sorted out to be the best investment last year, and probably one of the best investments ever, in regards of this fantastic module)

My IHADDS is connected to a ValVe Index.

[Condor060]

Heres a weird case I'm dealing with.

My system: Ryzen 9 3900XT, ROG Crosshair VIII Hero, G Skill 32GB DDR4, RTX 3080ti, all water cooled

Settings are with Steam VR at 150% res, 90hz, 1.3 PD, high textures, high terrain textures, Vis medium, water low, Cockpit 1024, MSAA 4X, Anisotropic 16X, and all the sliders around 65%

Shadows flat, clouds standard, Depth of field off, SSAA< SSLR< SSAO all off

My Index runs the Apache at 45 FPS pretty solid on line and off and every jet at 60-65 FPS

My Pimax 8KX can't get above 5 FPS with the same setting except res set at 100% but runs all the jets at 60-65 FPS

And I can't find an Apache setting that will get the Pimax playable. 

Go Figure Any ideas are most welcome. lol

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Condor060

[fjacobsen]

Regarding the sudden FPS drop in VR,  that (sometimes) can be fixed by Alt-Tabbing out and back in again after 10-20 sec...

I raised a ticket for this issue, but the only advice I got was to lower my graphics settings as this has helped others.

Too high setings is certainly not the casue for this.

When everything runs fine, with my present settings, I have around 50 fps in Caucasus, and all is smooth and fine. On the Syria map I get around 45 fps, which also is smooth.

 

I think there is some kind of bug in the DCS engine that causes the FPS to drop from these 45-50 FPS down to 15 FPS, then Alt-Tabbing out and in again brings the FPS again.

The simple fact that Alt-Tab can bring FPS back, clearly indicates that this is not due to too high Graphical settings.

I think this should be a high priority to fix.

 

I only see this with the Mi-24 Hind and AH-64D Apache.

[TED]

19 minutes ago, fjacobsen said:

Regarding the sudden FPS drop in VR,  that (sometimes) can be fixed by Alt-Tabbing out and back in again after 10-20 sec...

I raised a ticket for this issue, but the only advice I got was to lower my graphics settings as this has helped others.

Too high setings is certainly not the casue for this.

When everything runs fine, with my present settings, I have around 50 fps in Caucasus, and all is smooth and fine. On the Syria map I get around 45 fps, which also is smooth.

 

I think there is some kind of bug in the DCS engine that causes the FPS to drop from these 45-50 FPS down to 15 FPS, then Alt-Tabbing out and in again brings the FPS again.

The simple fact that Alt-Tab can bring FPS back, clearly indicates that this is not due to too high Graphical settings.

I think this should be a high priority to fix.

 

I only see this with the Mi-24 Hind and AH-64D Apache.

I agree. Lowering graphics settings has almost no effect for me. I’m currently experimenting with openXR and therefore cutting out steamvr altogether and it helps with some things but I still see issues at the processing level, further re-enforcing my view that this is an issue caused largely by modules becoming more complex, the dcs environment becoming more complex therefore all requiring more processing power to render, but everything being limited to single core processing. 

[exil]

40 minutes ago, fjacobsen said:

Regarding the sudden FPS drop in VR,  that (sometimes) can be fixed by Alt-Tabbing out and back in again after 10-20 sec...

I raised a ticket for this issue, but the only advice I got was to lower my graphics settings as this has helped others.

Too high setings is certainly not the casue for this.

When everything runs fine, with my present settings, I have around 50 fps in Caucasus, and all is smooth and fine. On the Syria map I get around 45 fps, which also is smooth.

 

I think there is some kind of bug in the DCS engine that causes the FPS to drop from these 45-50 FPS down to 15 FPS, then Alt-Tabbing out and in again brings the FPS again.

The simple fact that Alt-Tab can bring FPS back, clearly indicates that this is not due to too high Graphical settings.

I think this should be a high priority to fix.

 

I only see this with the Mi-24 Hind and AH-64D Apache.

I had this problem too under SteamVR. I don't know, people are telling that it's a memory leak, but I don't think so. It like at some point the game engine is not using your whole Gpu power. And then, after alt-tabbing it's like a wake up call for the Gpu. I also only have this problem with the AH-64 over Syria (at least I think... Have to try again on other maps). Also switching from one Apache to another resulted in massive framedrops and a lowering in Gpu usage of around 35% where it was around 90% when frames are stable. 

I recently switched to OpenXR and the problems kinda vanished when not using reprojection. 

 

[fjacobsen]

2 hours ago, TED said:

I agree. Lowering graphics settings has almost no effect for me. I’m currently experimenting with openXR and therefore cutting out steamvr altogether and it helps with some things but I still see issues at the processing level, further re-enforcing my view that this is an issue caused largely by modules becoming more complex, the dcs environment becoming more complex therefore all requiring more processing power to render, but everything being limited to single core processing. 

I also think that it is something going on with CPU utilisation rather than overloading the GPU.

If it was lack of GPU power, then I would guess that I would see generally lower FPS then the 50 FPS I see when all runs fine. If it was due to too large texture load, then I would guess to see constant stuttering and low FPS.

What I see is a sudden drop from otherwise good FPS, caused by something in the core game engine.

 

If it was a graphics setting issue (too high settings), then a simple Alt-Tab out and into the game should not help.

I kind of find raising tickets is like contact common It help desks - they simply recommend "Lower Your settings", "Update Your drivers", "Run a repair" or "There is someting wrong with Your system". I still have to see them acknowledge that some kind of bug is within the game.

 

We can only hope that enough customers raise this issue for them to look into it more serious, or at least acknowledge that there could be a bug.

[exil]

I can now confirm that it's the apache itself causing problems. 

I ran a test mission with a lot of different aircrafts. 

Here is what I've found out so far:

With reprojection off (no matter if steamVR or OpenXR) everything is fine. Apache is a bit more demanding then other modules but generally okay. So I hopped into the A10, F16, F18, Huey, MI-8 and the apache with around 50 - 60 FPS without any major stutters besides of the once that are generally there. 

Then I turned on motion reprojection and did the same thing again. While I could easily maintain 45 FPS in all other aircraft, I got immediate stutters when in the apache. FPS dropped to something like 15 - 27 and my GPU load decreased (interestingly) to around 35%.

To me, it seems like there is a significant negative impact between the apache and motion reprojection (or motion smoothing in steamvr). 

I am running a G1 with an 5600X,32GB RAM @ 3200mhz and a RTX3080

[Indianajon]

Hi ED, I've been experimenting with this and find a distinct drop in VR. Plays silky smooth on monitor and all other modules. Have primarily been using the A10c2 as it has a similar monocle design in VR, again with no fps drop. If it would help I'm more than happy to upload tracks of all or some of these tests so you can see and compare. Is there anywhere specific I can upload tracks etc and is there anything in particular that would help?

Good luck with it and loving the apache the more I play with it.

[BigBANGtheory]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:39 PM, rss0900 said:

@Hammer 1-1 @Jarhead0331

I'm not sure I know what everyone else is getting FPS wise or what settings they have.  My system is stock not overclocked, I got a i5 10600K processor, 32gb ram, DCS running on an SSD, 3080 GPU, and an HP reverb g2 for the VR.   The steam VR settings are 50% resolution and a multiplier of 40%. 

 

I've been advised (by an ED Tester) to keep the Pixel Density fixed at 1.0 and then up the SteamVR resolution whilst watching the GPU render time in fpsVR.

In my case with a 3080 and a Vive Pro 2 which is a bit higher on the native screen res vs. a HP G2 I can get to 140-150% in SteamVR

[KoN]

2 hours ago, BigBANGtheory said:

I've been advised (by an ED Tester) to keep the Pixel Density fixed at 1.0 and then up the SteamVR resolution whilst watching the GPU render time in fpsVR.

In my case with a 3080 and a Vive Pro 2 which is a bit higher on the native screen res vs. a HP G2 I can get to 140-150% in SteamVR

Good idea  . So leave P.D @ 1.0 in game and run Quest2 at high resolution . 

[Thanatos31]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:59 AM, fjacobsen said:

I also think that it is something going on with CPU utilisation rather than overloading the GPU.

If it was lack of GPU power, then I would guess that I would see generally lower FPS then the 50 FPS I see when all runs fine. If it was due to too large texture load, then I would guess to see constant stuttering and low FPS.

What I see is a sudden drop from otherwise good FPS, caused by something in the core game engine.

 

If it was a graphics setting issue (too high settings), then a simple Alt-Tab out and into the game should not help.

I kind of find raising tickets is like contact common It help desks - they simply recommend "Lower Your settings", "Update Your drivers", "Run a repair" or "There is someting wrong with Your system". I still have to see them acknowledge that some kind of bug is within the game.

 

We can only hope that enough customers raise this issue for them to look into it more serious, or at least acknowledge that there could be a bug.

Very interesting - 

I've also been suffering from CPU timings being very poor; I have 45 -50 FPS utilizing OXR and OXRTK - and will have a sudden drop to low double digits or singles - sometimes even a black screen for 3-5 seconds - for the game to return to smooth 45-50 FPS again.
What I typically see is CPU times around 17-18 and GPU hovering around 20; I'm trying to figure out why the CPU is so slow , and doesnt go into its boosted state in which it goes north of 4000mhz; 
Specs are 

Ryzen 5600x 
RX6700XT

32gb 

SSD 
Resolution is @70% via OXRDT

( no crazy settings otherwise , all "normal" for VR) 
I've also started input regarding the spikes and lags in these topics :
 

And also received the good info to potentially ensure that the GPU low and high MHZ limits are close together , as this can lead the GPU to go from full load (45FPS) to powersaving / idling due to the CPU times being slow and thus causing stutters/lags/black screens. 
Haven't been able to test this, but will tonight.

Biggest annoyance is that I have no idea what causes such poor CPU timings , even though I am testing these in SP FreeFlights. ( and interestingly - the timings stay roughly the same when going to a MP server) having a few other players comment their CPU times when using a 5600x has me worried somethings wrong as the ten to be low double digits typically. 

[Sirbum]

Might be a amd issue because my intel 10700 gets 7-9 frame time with the G2. I dont seem to ever have issues cpu wise. Just gpu but then im running a 2070 so its a little light on power. 
 

but i just changed over to openxr and cut out steam vr all togeather and was able to up my resolution to native 100% with same in game settings and i keep 45-50 fps on the ground all times now. And the cockpit is crystal clear

[exil]

If anyone has troubles with the apache only, try to set your textures to medium (not terrain textures). Helped me to finally have my problem solved with openxr and reprojection. 

[Hammer1-1]

Any update after todays patch? I gave high textures a go and doesnt seem to be a big problem anymore, but not sure if I can attribute that to the OpenXR mod or an actual fix.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[nrgized]

I was able to run at a stable 45 locked fps in mulitplayer before todays patch.  After todays patch I'm in the 30s low 40s.

[Voodooflies]

On 3/21/2022 at 3:04 PM, YoYo said:

I think there are two separate problems:

1/ memory leak - therefore for some, switching to Medium texture improves the situation, I have 24 VRAM, and I didnt see any RAM problem but I have large stock of free VRAM, so I don't see a problem with that, as well as the change from High to Medium for me, the same.

This. I'm pretty sure you are right. Honestly after an hour or so, I jump from 90 FPS per eye to 10 for no reason which makes it unplayable from time to time. Sometimes it could be even at the begining of some of the premade single player mission made by ED. Exiting to the main menu or exiting the sim does solve the issue. To me it has something to do with a memory leak.

[pimp]

After this latest patch, my fps has dropped to low 30s. Before this patch I was getting 42-45 consistently.

[Ulvar40]

Well for me and my Oculus Q2 this is a Apache problem. I only experience massive fps drop after 10-14min with the Apache installed. I dont even need to be in it.. ones installed the drop happens in all modules after a short period of time.

I cleaned my system from DCS and did a complete install of the game. Did not install the Apache this time, and now the problem is gone!! Back to experience a solid 40fps as I normal do after 3 hrs of flying time.

So for me, there is something happening ones im installing the Apache.

[YoYo]

42 minutes ago, Ulvar40 said:

I cleaned my system from DCS and did a complete install of the game. Did not install the Apache this time, and now the problem is gone!! Back to experience a solid 40fps as I normal do after 3 hrs of flying time.

LOL, interesting ... I think is a memory leak or something like this (+ new FLIR maybe). Fingers crossed for solution.

[atledreier]

I've been having some issues with this module too, but going from the 12Gb 3080ti to the 24Gb 3090 seems to have solved a lot of my issues.

My 3080ti was pegged at 12Gb VRAM usage. Now I'm peaking at 19,55GB of VRAM usage on the 3090. I expect even that to fill up with some more units (only tried a relatively simple mission on my server, no other players

 

[IzeHouze]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:03 PM, BigBANGtheory said:

I've been advised (by an ED Tester) to keep the Pixel Density fixed at 1.0 and then up the SteamVR resolution whilst watching the GPU render time in fpsVR.

In my case with a 3080 and a Vive Pro 2 which is a bit higher on the native screen res vs. a HP G2 I can get to 140-150% in SteamVR

Same thing if you run Oculus brands, but use the 'Oculus Tray Tool' instead of Steam VR, and run DCS in Oculus VR Mode.

Set in the Game to 1.0 and set the Super Sampling in the Oculus Tray Tool from 1.2 - 1.5 depending on your system.  (recommend that you put it into a 'Profile' just for DCS)

For me this runs better than Steam VR option.

Note:  You need to keep the tool running.  Either Start with Windows or start it before launching DCS.  Also I don't believe that you can make on the fly changes, but must exit DCS, make the adjustment in the tool, then restart DCS.

[Robi Hobby]

At the moment the Apache is no longer playable for me in VR.

Quick start in Persian Gulf (Cold start) Since I only have 10 FPS. It also went down to 4 FPS.

It doesn't matter, just have to wait until it gets improved, it's still Early Access.

i7 7700K RTX 2070 32GB M.2 1TB for DCS   VR Oculus Rift S

Edited April 3, 2022 by Robi Hobby

[River]

2D here, solid 60 fps. 

Turning on PNVS or showing FLIR on a screen tanks my fps down to 40.

Over large cities on Syria if I have stutter I can turn off MPDs by lowering brightness all the way and I am back to smooth 60 fps.

The new Flir and the MPDs needs optimization. Lowering settings has no effect at all. 

[Hammer1-1]

12 hours ago, Robi Hobby said:

At the moment the Apache is no longer playable for me in VR.

Quick start in Persian Gulf (Cold start) Since I only have 10 FPS. It also went down to 4 FPS.

It doesn't matter, just have to wait until it gets improved, it's still Early Access.

i7 7700K RTX 2070 32GB M.2 1TB for DCS   VR Oculus Rift S

 

hve you tried dropping your texture resolution to medium?

[Robi Hobby]

@Hammer 1-1

OK , much better now !  Have about 22 FPS