Are tutorials top secret now?

[BIGNEWY]

3 hours ago, Beirut said:

Apparently the Grim Reapers aren't doing in-depth tutorials anymore, at least with the Apache it seems, and another video reviewer made a point of saying it's for entertainment purposes only and that some questions and discussions in the comments section might get deleted?

 

Are we all walking on eggshells here? Should I be expecting a knock on the door at 3am? 

Content creators can do whatever they like, it is their channels to do with as they please. 

As for entertainment purposes, please note Casmo was a real Apache pilot, he is just making it clear that no sensitive items will be discussed. 


Thanks

[Beirut]

6 minutes ago, CaptJodan said:

To be fair, there are people on the AH-64 video he posted claiming they won't buy another module until Cap is respected the way he wants.  Most are probably not going to actually follow through with that, internet bluster is such a fun thing for so many, but who knows, maybe some will follow through.  So apparently there are some people who are bigger fans of GR than of the game.  

 

I would prefer less negativity for sure. This is a great big fat complicated sim and there is enough room for everyone.

 

I like DCS and I like the Grim Reapers and I intend on staying with both.

[Mistermann]

Well, I hope Cap monetizes his channel with all those subs!

GR isn't my first stop for DCS videos, but they have certainly given me information over the years.  

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

 

They have almost 200k subscribers, hundreds of tutorials, and about 80 million views.  

 

You have 14 posts in a forum. 

 

Yeah. 

Popularity isn't a measure of quality, though.

Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock both can claim platinum albums, after all.

Edited March 18, 2022 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[Fromthedeep]

34 minutes ago, Beirut said:

An excellent one.

 

So let me get this straight, you think my input on the quality of their tutorials isn't relevant because I have few posts in the forum, so I assume you mean that this makes me unqualified to judge the validity of their content. This doesn't make sense on any level though, because what do forum posts have to do with Youtube tutorials? You don't even know who I am, for all you know, I could be a successful Youtuber on an anonymous account with more views and subscribers than them. I am not, but just the number of posts in a forum can't be used to determine that, so in theory, I could have been. Of course, being a successful Youtuber is also not required to judge the quality of existing content. I don't need to be a chef to know that you shouldn't cook using 2 week old rotten meat that was left out in the New Mexico desert before it got to the kitchen. And if I had 2000 forum posts would I be a credible source regarding the quality of their tutorials?

 

 

34 minutes ago, Beirut said:

There are GR videos that are not great and some that are terrible. This is often the case with anyone who puts out hundreds of videos. But that does not take away from the fact that they also make a lot of very good tutorials that reach a wide audience. Your analysis of their success is without merit.  

That's one of the big reasons why their tutorials are bad. Because they rush them out as fast as possible without having enough experience with the topic at hand and this leads to them being very inaccurate fairly often. Back in the day, Cap didn't even prepare a script at all, he was just messing around asking Sherman and other people what certain things did or how to do this or that. Which is not even a tutorial.

Ultimately what this boils down to is that there are content creators with much better tutorials than the GR. Cap won't stop making other kinds of videos either, so GR fans still get content. And now people who make high quality tutorials have the chance to reach a wider audience without the GRs littering up the search page and the ercommendations. 

 

Even if you think that GR's tutorials are excellent, there are other people whose tutorials are just as good at the very least. Unless of course, you're arguing that GR make the best tutorials out of all content creators and without them we won't have any credible or useful resources left on Youtube, which would be a pretty bold statement.

34 minutes ago, Beirut said:

I'm uncertain who cannot enjoy DCS without the Grim Reapers? You have referred to this twice. I know of no such person

Good, then you'll still get to watch their other videos and have at least just as good tutorials by other content creators. Win-win.

 

30 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

GR can at times be extremely entertaining, but that doesn't take away from anything DCS does. The fact the game/simulator let's you fly an 8 hours hard-core milsim mission and also let's you blow up tiger tanks in an A-10 is a good thing. Even if you don't want to blow up tigers in an A-10 it can still be very entertaining to see fun people do it

The issue is that people who are specifically interested in blowing up Napoleon era soldiers in A-10s don't necessarily going to find the type of gameplay that DCS inherently offers entertaining. It's not that these people are wrong or that there's anything wrong with their preferences, it's that there's a high chance that DCS is not the game for them. In turn, of course, this will lead to constant begging and complaints when things get more realistic, which is in the way of simcade fun that the GR caters to. You can use a realistic simulator as unrealistically as you want but that cannot lead to endangering the fidelity to cater to these groups, becase the goal of DCS is to be as realistic as legally and technically possible. Optional settings are of course fine but the same thing happened with the Maverick alignment in the Viper, the fact that contrast and gain has to be manually managed in modern TGPs and that structural damage modelling is simulated in some degree in most modules.

[Beirut]

1 minute ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Popularity isn't a measure of quality, though.
 

 

It is if you are the subject of that popularity.

 

Even if the content is sometimes mediocre, I'm sure the DCS people are happy to have 80 million views that present their product in a positive light.

[epoch]

There's plenty of choice from DCS-related content creators and that's a good thing.

Other than Wags, my "go to" sources for training related material would be RedKite and Spudknocker both of whom product top quality content.  For sure I've learned a few things from Grim Reapers over the years for which I'm grateful.  However, their channel does seem, in general, more about quantity over quality, with some of the "tutorial" type output being quite superficial and under-prepared.

Nevertheless, a lot of us rely on these creators to help us on our DCS journey, so they all deserve encouragement and thanks.

[Beirut]

3 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

You don't even know who I am, for all you know, I could be a successful Youtuber on an anonymous account with more views and subscribers than them.

 

 

 

Actually, I thought you were Justin Bieber and you had just bought the Apache.

 

Which in all truth is pretty cool.  

[Japo32]

for those that says Grim Reapers do bad stuff or not deep tutorials: go and make yourself yours. Easy to critic when not made that hard work. I have seen thousands of videos of GR, and it is true that sometimes things are not perfect said, but the hard work and sometimes deep investigation he makes, he deserves a lot of respect. Without his videos we wouldn't find video tutorials that we would never find anywhere. And not only that. He also test things to see if those things in the game are as they should. Something that no other one makes.

My maximum respect to Cap from GR.

[Beirut]

2 minutes ago, epoch said:

There's plenty of choice from DCS-related content creators and that's a good thing.

Other than Wags, my "go to" sources for training related material would be RedKite and Spudknocker both of whom product top quality content.  For sure I've learned a few things from Grim Reapers over the years for which I'm grateful.  However, their channel does seem, in general, more about quantity over quality, with some of the "tutorial" type output being quite superficial and under-prepared.

Nevertheless, a lot of us rely on these creators to help us on our DCS journey, so they all deserve encouragement and thanks.

 

Agreed. 

 

The only problem I have with Wags' videos is that sometimes I think he assumes I am smarter than I actually am.  So I have to go find someone, maybe Cap, who will explain it with small words spoken very slowly. But between Wags, Cap, Ralfidude and others, we absolutely get great content that can steer us through all this. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

3 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

It is if you are the subject of that popularity.

 

Even if the content is sometimes mediocre, I'm sure the DCS people are happy to have 80 million views that present their product in a positive light.

I would definitely agree with your last sentiment, but does it apply here? I'll watch a GR video once in a while and I'll find things that are out right incorrect. They aren't tutorials I'd recommend to newbies and moving away from that kind of content is probably better for GR on a creative level.
 

1 minute ago, Japo32 said:

for those that says Grim Reapers do bad stuff or not deep tutorials: go and make yourself yours. Easy to critic when not made that hard work. I have seen thousands of videos of GR, and it is true that sometimes things are not perfect said, but the hard work and sometimes deep investigation he makes, he deserves a lot of respect. Without his videos we wouldn't find video tutorials that we would never find anywhere. And not only that. He also test things to see if those things in the game are as they should. Something that no other one makes.

My maximum respect to Cap from GR.

Making an observation on the reality that they've frequently gotten things wrong in their videos doesn't hinge upon one's ability to make a video themselves. If I'm a butcher and I give you a cut of rancid meat, does that mean you should also become a butcher in reaction to my less-than-desirable product? No, no it does not.

[Jayhawk1971]

Obviously ED felt that the type of content on that particular channel does not align with ED's preferences enough to warrant offering them early early access. Instead they chose to work with other content creators who they felt were more compatible. That's all. It's a business decision that I can absolutely understand. 

Apparently this decision bruised some egos.

[Japo32]

sorry but don't agree with you. Maybe you don't understand the work that is behind those videos. There is a sentence in spanish that says more or less that "critic only when you put his shoes" if you did, then ok. Even their videos are far away from perfect, they have bring hundreds of new pilots here to the community. For me a high respect to that "butcher"

As said, if people know more than others, then contribution from them will be great appreciated (I do also in videos in spanish tutorials, to bring more to DCS). And also... there is a difference between know something and know how to teach that thing.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Japo32

[Beirut]

1 minute ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

I would definitely agree with your last sentiment, but does it apply here? I'll watch a GR video once in a while and I'll find things that are out right incorrect. They aren't tutorials I'd recommend to newbies and moving away from that kind of content is probably better for GR on a creative level.
 

 

I'm not going to say they are perfect, not by a long shot. But they have put in a ton of effort, made hundreds of helpful tutorials, and present DCS in a very positive light. I can't fault that.

 

And as stated, they made two videos specifically in response to my questions. I like that they listen to their viewers. It makes it more interesting. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

2 minutes ago, Japo32 said:

sorry but don't agree with you. Maybe you don't understand the work that is behind those videos. There is a sentence in spanish that says more or less that "critic only when you put his shoes" if you did, then ok. Even their videos are far away from perfect, they have bring hundreds of new pilots here to the community. For me a high respect to that "butcher"

 

For me, I personally do not care for maggots in my sirloin, but to each their own.

[CaptJodan]

I think comparing GR to other content creators or getting in the weeds on whether or not GR provides good or bad content isn't really productive.  GR produces content that a sizable portion of the DCS community likes, and brings players to a sim we all love.  In general, they're not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean they don't have value to others, and that those others help to fund MY love of this game.  

But this was a choice made by Cap.  And if he doesn't like doing them anymore, then that's certainly a choice he can make.  He should have the freedom to do what he wants to with his channel, and he has. Respect the decision and move on, or maybe ask him to reconsider if you're a real fan of those tutorials.  

Where I get off the train is where it seems that Cap or GR feels it is owed something by ED.  As I should respect Cap's decision to move on for whatever reason he feels he needs to move on with, I will also respect ED for choosing to work with content creators they want to work with.  The reason Cap gave doesn't sit well with me, but it is his choice.  But it's also ED's choice on who they get to work with.  

[Beirut]

5 minutes ago, CaptJodan said:

 

Where I get off the train is where it seems that Cap or GR feels it is owed something by ED.  As I should respect Cap's decision to move on for whatever reason he feels he needs to move on with, I will also respect ED for choosing to work with content creators they want to work with.  The reason Cap gave doesn't sit well with me, but it is his choice.  But it's also ED's choice on who they get to work with.  

 

 

If that is the reason, some early access thing, then it's a tough one. Everyone is free to do as they see fit. And business is business. How do we measure what level gratitude and respect should play in a space where both parties benefit from the other, though in an informal way? GR obviously benefits from DCS with the Youtube views. And I can't imagine DCS is bothered by someone with tens of millions of views telling people how great DCS is and how to use all the complicated stuff you buy.

 

In any case, I like the GR tutorials and I hope they continue.

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

GR indepth tutorials? Since when have they ever done those?

[pii]

3 hours ago, doedkoett said:

Have GR ever done in-depth tutorials?
Between Casmo (who have done in-depth tutorials on helicopter tactics and tecniques in the past) and Wags, I think we have all we need. I am sure Casmo will post loads of more interesting vids in the coming weeks. Some things we do not need in-depth knowledge about, given the present world situation. 

No, Cosmo and Wags are not all we need. For one Cosmo talks like we are all seasoned AH-64 pilots, he goes too fast for me and doesn't explain how to actually do stuff, we are not pilots.  

Edited March 18, 2022 by pii

[pii]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Having watched both wagner's and GR tutorials on the F16, GR is much better, when I watch Wagner I often find myself,  hey how did you get to this point. GRs vidoes on the F16 are much better for us that are easily confused by complex stuff.

I feel the same about Cosmo's video's . They both know the subjects too well and often just breeze over the detail of "How" they got there and are often just missing. 

[Beirut]

10 minutes ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

GR indepth tutorials? Since when have they ever done those?

 

I linked to one before. About an hour long just on the Hornet SA page. That qualifies as an in-depth tutorial. They also did one recently about an hour long comparing all the Russian SAM capabilities. Who else is doing videos like that?

 

They have lots of videos that are 30, 45, or 60 minutes long explaining DCS features in depth. Two I just saw ran 45 minutes each, one on the ME trigger system and one on airfield coms and circuit procedures.

 

This idea that all they do is 2 minute tutorials and some goofball stuff is a complete myth.

 

 

[notproplayer3]

2 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

As a personal note, I'm incredibly glad that Cap's videos will be gone and high quality and well produced tutorials will get more recognition from now on. If someone can't enjoy DCS without the GR videos, maybe this isn't the appropriate game for them. 

Oh wow, so you feel like reducing options for people who are looking to learn DCS modules ? And in what right can you say that DCS isn't the right game for folks that enjoy it through learning the modules from the grim Reapers? This is ridiculous, as long as someone has the same enjoyment out of DCS than you, just because you are more hardcore doesn't mean you are any more legitimate as a DCS player than he is regardless of how casual he may be. 

Well, as a personal note, I really like many grim Reapers video because most of the time, the cut straight to the chase, especially when it comes to operating X system or cold starting an aircraft. I have flown and enjoyed DCS for over 5 years and as scary as it can sound to you, I never read any manual nor have I watched a 1h in depth video on a particular system. Most often, I just play the training missions, and for the things that aren't covered in them, I quickly search on YouTube and the grim Reapers have the exact video I need that goes straight to the point unlike some other DCS youtubers. 

So perhaps if you feel like the Grim Reapers are taking part of the viewership of other DCS youtubers, you should think for a second on why the Grim Reapers are getting views in the first place. Perhaps you might not like it but you shouldn't be intolerant like you seem to be now. 

[Wallop]

Flight sim community be like:

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Wallop

[Beirut]

7 minutes ago, notproplayer3 said:

So perhaps if you feel like the Grim Reapers are taking part of the viewership of other DCS youtubers, you should think for a second on why the Grim Reapers are getting views in the first place. Perhaps you might not like it but you shouldn't be intolerant like you seem to be now. 

 

Yep.

 

I'm sure I'm missing a few in my list, but of the people I watch, GR is the most popular and offers the widest range of tutorials. There is no one else, I think, who covers as many aspects of DCS as GR does. As mentioned, for example, who else compares DCS Russian SAM performance in an hour long video of tests? 

 

Youtube Views:

Grim Reapers: 77,000,000

Growling Sidewinder: 73,000,000

Eagle Dynamics: 19,000,000

Ralfidude: 18,000,000

Matt Wagner: 18,000,000

Spudknocker: 7,000,000

Redkite: 6,000,000

Casmo: 1,500,000

 

[Insanatrix]

GR video's have helped me learn quite a few things since picking DCS back up again. I can definitely tell that he rushes through them, but I think he generally wants to help people and the reason he has so many views is because it's entertaining, Some of his video's I just watched for the entertainment value alone. It's also short and sweet and while I like learning about all the systems and why they do things and the history behind them and interesting anecdotal stories associated with them, Sometimes I just wanna learn how to blow stuff up. Allot of tutorial video's are so long winded that I find I have to skip through to find relevant information.

Wags video's are good, But I never watch them to actually learn because between information on what to do there's a 5-10 min long history or information lesson on the why. I can understand the need to learn the why in real life scenario's and training however this is a game. I think that's the concept some people need to learn, as much as you want to picture yourself as a pilot, at the end of the day you're not. Hate to burst your bubble.

I've watched Spudknocker and he's somewhat of a middle ground in terms of concise info but I can't say I've watched any of the others and can't really comment on them.