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Are tutorials top secret now?


Beirut

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1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

Yep.

 

I'm sure I'm missing a few in my list, but of the people I watch, GR is the most popular and offers the widest range of tutorials. There is no one else, I think, who covers as many aspects of DCS as GR does. As mentioned, for example, who else compares DCS Russian SAM performance in an hour long video of tests? 

 

Youtube Views:

Grim Reapers: 77,000,000

Growling Sidewinder: 73,000,000

Eagle Dynamics: 19,000,000

Ralfidude: 18,000,000

Matt Wagner: 18,000,000

Spudknocker: 7,000,000

Redkite: 6,000,000

Casmo: 1,500,000

 

All this begs the question. Capt. And Wags used to be tight(maybe still are?) 

Makes a guy wonder if somebody with a W in their name is icing Capt. Due to click jealousy…..  

Purely a hypothetical 

 

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2 hours ago, notproplayer3 said:

Oh wow, so you feel like reducing options for people who are looking to learn DCS modules ? And in what right can you say that DCS isn't the right game for folks that enjoy it through learning the modules from the grim Reapers? This is ridiculous, as long as someone has the same enjoyment out of DCS than you, just because you are more hardcore doesn't mean you are any more legitimate as a DCS player than he is regardless of how casual he may be. 

 

That's not what I said. I said that if someone can't enjoy DCS without GR tutorials, it may not be the game for them. It's not like Casmo, or Wags or Redkite or Spudknocker go super in depth in their tutorials full of real life data that doesn't pertain to DCS in any way. There are some people like that out there (Krause, CWV-11, Karon from FlyAndWire, Mike Solyom) but that's really the exception and not the norm. 

 

2 hours ago, notproplayer3 said:

So perhaps if you feel like the Grim Reapers are taking part of the viewership of other DCS youtubers, you should think for a second on why the Grim Reapers are getting views in the first place

Because Cap knows how to play the algorithm well enough. I simply don't understand what sort of super in depth tutorials you guys are talking about. Wags' and Casmo's tutorials are short, to the point and skip over any kind of in depth or cosmic theoretical explanation. 

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I gotta admit that I am really confused at this notion that Wags tutorials are "too long and don't get to the point". If anything, they are exactly to the point and don't waste any time on anything but directly describing what to do to complete a specific procedure. No time is wasted on anything else. 

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A few things to consider:

These aircraft are NOT simple. There's a lot to learn. Most customers have a limited amount of time to devote to a "game" (yea, it's a simulator, but in our lives it's essentially not a training tool but for our chosen style of "entertainment"). And there are great tutorials.

But different people learn differently. Different teachers have teaching styles, different presentation styles for different students who absorb the lesson in different ways. Think back to school, college or workplace instructions: Ever had a teacher that you dreaded going to, because it was a struggle to absorb their lesson? Maybe too wordy, too slow, talks down in a condescending manner? Maybe another teacher you liked because of how they explained things? How they actually did the "hands on" portion?

Or jumps too quick to get to the point with no details? Maybe not enough in the nuts and bolts of actually accomplishing things? Too much theory not enough hands-on? Or maybe all hands on at too fast a rate, skipping over verbalizing important steps that are assumed the students know by heart? Not enough theory? Dry monotone theory with no pauses that just goes ON AND ON AND ONANDONANDON... maybe teach is too critical of student, maybe far too lax and too much unwarranted praise, not enough feedback, or maybe you are drowning in feedback and it's distracting you from the process of absorbing the hands on part of the lesson? 

My point is that people teach differently, and people LEARN differently.

Different institutions teach with different styles too... a kindergarten lesson is going to be presented VERY differently from an Army Lesson on safe handling of a grenade. Or a University Biology lesson. Or a car driving lesson. They'll have a different feel, different presentation, different expectations of the students. 

I think there's room for many different styles, what works for some doesn't work well for others. When we have choices of teachers, we have the opportunity to seek out a new source to learn, when we run into a topic that stumps us. We probably come back to the first teacher for the rest of the topics, but maybe to learn that one thing, we seek out a different teacher because maybe they've covered it differently.

Pilot instructors often notice that they learn more as instructors, than they did as students, for a variety of reasons. One told me that becoming an instructor was super useful in becoming a really good pilot. Because instructing is on some level also learning, often in more depth. 

My own father was a highschool teacher. Smart, knowlegable. Competent. I never spent time with him in a school classroom... but seeing how he struggled to teach us kids non-school things... man, sometimes that was painful. 

----

As for DCS content providers, It might simply be someone's getting a lot of grief from a few people over tutorials, that can really weigh heavy on someone sometimes. But really, we don't actually know much of anything.

Often people are vague on purpose, because while they feel strongly about something, they also don't want to hurt others feelings, don't want an escalation, don't want friends to go on a crusade that wasn't wanted. Sometimes just want to part ways peacefully and chill.  Sometimes it's best to just let a subject rest. 


Edited by Rick50
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1 hour ago, Fromthedeep said:

There are some people like that out there (Krause, CWV-11, Karon from FlyAndWire, Mike Solyom) but that's really the exception and not the norm. 


On my case, I truly enjoy in-depth videos, they make me feel like I’m actually at a military academy … particularly loved the CWV-11 videos on the F-14, pity that they get little recognition, as the majority considers DCS to be just a game, rather than a simulator.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Big.Biggs said:

All this begs the question. Capt. And Wags used to be tight(maybe still are?) 

Makes a guy wonder if somebody with a W in their name is icing Capt. Due to click jealousy…..  

Purely a hypothetical 

 

Guys please dont start making silly rumors, we had nothing to do with GR's decisions on their channel, that is all up to them. Please dont make this a bigger thing than it really is.

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10 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Guys please dont start making silly rumors, we had nothing to do with GR's decisions on their channel, that is all up to them. Please dont make this a bigger thing than it really is.

Copy that. My apologies yet again 🥴

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I see this topic going on in circles. Some people seem to dislike GR's videos just based on bias/community stigma. And there are two totally different discussions going on at the same time here.

Before I go on, I want to say I try to use everything available when I learn a module. From the ED training events to GR to RedKite to Chuck's guide etc. Each of them have a time and a place for me when learning a new module.

In my opinion GR's tutorials aren't on the same quality spectrum as some other's. In a good way. GR does something nobody else does. All of them do what they do very well.
Let me explain.

I really like GR's guides. They're not "in-depth" by DCS community standards, rather they're a beautiful assortment of quick and dirty 5min mouthfuls of information when you want to learn a specific function of the aircraft and not the gee-wiz stuff of why it functions the way that it does. Now let me finish.
 

Day 1
I want to have fun while learning the module and get some instant gratification while doing it and GR's videos help me to do that. I want to learn how to drop an LGB from an F/A-18? Here's a 4min video. Now you have everything you need to drop LGBs in a Hornet if you just do exactly what was shown in the video. Other creators' videos in comparison have the total info of what GR compiles into a 5min video over the entire 30-60min video (not bashing them, I'm talking about them in the next paragraph). You usually need to watch the ENTIRE thing to get one specific thing to function, because the information of key bindings, terminology and button and menu navigation is all over the place, because the video is meant as a one whole piece, that you read like a book, not like a collection of poems. That's my Day 1.

Day 2
Once I'm done with GR's videos (of the functions that actually interest me) and have gotten to do stuff just messing about and my interest is peaked. I start looking into Wags', Redkite's and others' videos that I can find. Now I want to know why am I doing something the way GR showed it to me and are there other ways to do it. What are the actual limitations of the systems etc. After this and a bit of testing I usually take the module out to the MP servers with relative confidence. Everything before this is either SP (maybe training server).

Day 3+
Chuck's Guide, Chuck's guide and Chuck's guide. If I can't remember something (haven't played a certain module for a time for example), I usually just open the navigation pane/content list of the guide and look up what I want to know in a couple of easy steps. In essence these guides are the mid-point between the videos above. They're easy to follow, but its more still more cumbersome than a video. And they're not as detailed as some of the videos. And these usually take the longest to get released/updated.

That has been my flow of learning modules. Every content creator has a time and a place for me and I watch them all. A big thank you to all of them!

 

Now as for GR being pissy about releasing further guides, while I'm disheartened to hear it, I'm on board with what has been said here already. Its the right move. Every DCS video done by the community should be FOR the love of the game and love of the community. If that doesn't do it for them anymore, than sad to see them hang up their spurs. I just hope there will be someone else to step into their shoes and start doing the quick and dirty specific small piece videos that I need.
There are other creators out there already that are not far off, but so far its more like a series than a one-off video with them, so you're still expected to know things before watching their videos. I guess that's what it comes down to. Expectations. GR's videos don't really have any module knowledge expectations from the viewer, while most others do.


Edited by adirtynurse
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3 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

Because Cap knows how to play the algorithm well enough.

 

That is patently untrue and cannot survive even a moment's scrutiny. 

 

Grim Reaper's 77,000,000 views come from the production of countless videos. Some are just for fun, but hundreds - by rough count about 850 - are straight up plane specific tutorials. Some two-minutes long, some 60 minutes long. "This is how you fire a Maverick"  and "This is how you use the radar".  The F-14 alone has 69 GR tutorials. The A-10C has 47. The Hornet has 104 plane specific GR tutorials. That is not playing the algorithm, that is producing content that 200K subscribers enjoy watching. 

 

Your argument is dissolved. :smoke:

 

 


Edited by Beirut
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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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