How to Takeoff?

[agamemnon_b5]

19 minutes ago, ollk22 said:

I find the Mi24 much more stable personally!

Glad it's not just me, lol.

[skypickle]

Interestingly, the update checked off the game avionics button. I did not realize it and when I unchecked it, all the flight instabilities disappearred.

[Recluse]

41 minutes ago, VDV said:

does the apache have any kind of autopilot , i cant find it....i mean even Hind has autopilod and apache is way more modern, it should have any too

It has ALT HOLD (not implemented yet, I think Matt Wagner said in his latest video on Post-release questions) and ATTITUDE hold on the FORCE TRIM switch.

 

See Manual page 63 (In the manual both are shown as "TODO" so maybe neither one is implemented yet)

Edited March 18, 2022 by Recluse

[agamemnon_b5]

34 minutes ago, VDV said:

does the apache have any kind of autopilot , i cant find it....i mean even Hind has autopilod and apache is way more modern, it should have any too

I'm flabergasted by that.  Even the UH-60 has an AFCS.  Odd that the most modern attack helicopter in the world can't do something like nulling yaw inputs for a relatively simple hover that a very old aircraft like the Hind can.

[104th_Money]

I think alot of the problem is with the rapid fluctuation of torque when lifting off to a hover, which probably escalates into a PIO. In watching videos of Apaches taking off, it just looks so stable. I have tried to lift off and leave collective alone as soon as airborne and it still does it unpredictably so there is no real way for me to counter it.

[dresoccer4]

same issue with wobbliness using twist stick.

she'll start spinning to the right, so I give a little left rudder trim, and then she'll spin to the left. just twisting my joystick slightly causes massive oscillations that I don't have in any of the other helo modules. very odd!

[Mad Dog 762]

I have flown the Ka50 quite a bit.  Wags had said this would be the easiest to fly helo in DCS and its for sure not!  I am still trying to figure out the best control and trim setup but this thing is a monster.  It takes a ton of pedal at take off, and if I can successfully make a (very ugly) takeoff and get into forward flight, as soon as I slow back down below 30 knots or so I get what seems like a Tomcat trying to go into a flat spin.  

Its almost like none of the stability control systems are actually working.....

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

42 minutes ago, 104th_Money said:

In watching videos of Apaches taking off

In real life things are easier since you *feel* what the aircraft is doing, whereas in a simulator you need to wait until you *see* what the aircraft is doing: pre-emptive vs reactive.

After enough practice, you can predict the helo's behaviour and things will get smoother  

[Pixel of Life]

5 hours ago, LooseSeal said:

Unlike in the Hind, there is no option to turn off rudder trim - which I really don't understand. It would make it easier for those with spring-based pedals, or me anyway!

There is. Not in the heli itself, but if you go to the module's special settings, you can set the rudder trim mode to "no springs or FFB" to turn it off.

[104th_Money]

1 hour ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

In real life things are easier since you *feel* what the aircraft is doing, whereas in a simulator you need to wait until you *see* what the aircraft is doing: pre-emptive vs reactive.

After enough practice, you can predict the helo's behaviour and things will get smoother  

I think you are correct about the real life part but I definitely am not new to helicopters in DCS. Its never taken me more than 30 minutes to be able to reasonably hover any helo in DCS before or in general to keep the helo from side slipping in slow flight or crabbing in faster forward flight, doing rapid take offs and landings.

Every time I take off in the Apache it seems like it behaves differently...

[syzygy]

I used the force trim as suggested here and from wagg's new video. The helicopter is much stable but apart from the rudder trim I have to also input a massive cyclic trim to keep the helicopter from sliding right. Is that much trim necessary ?

[WesFromAk]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:28 PM, 104th_Money said:

So I did a quick ground hot mission with the Apache already up and running. Upon take off it seems extremely wobbly and very hard to hold in a hover. I even set curves for the controls and that didnt help. Is there an SAS system that needs to be turned on?

I tried auto-start procedure but just get an engine fire warning and helo will not start.

Its almost like flying the Hind or the KA-50 with the autopilots completely off.

Once I get airborne and moving its relatively smooth. Noticed I cant accelerate above 132kts in level flight.

 

I'm having a really hard time with hovering. Thinking it's because I was too exited and didn't pull out either of my 2 rudder pedal sets. Tried to get away with putting rudder control on my throttle rocker axis. Bad idea apparently. 

I'm going to try real rudder pedals and see if it makes a difference.

Also force trim is confusing me too. I'm used to it being a single button on the cyclic.

Have to play around with that as well. 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by WesFromAk
Grammar

[ORboarder]

Holy crap it's money!  long time no play friend, hope you are well.

Turn your SCAS on with trimmer up while still on the ground!

hope you are well!

-Migdriver

 

[agamemnon_b5]

6 hours ago, ORboarder said:

Turn your SCAS on with trimmer up while still on the ground!

SCAS is on by default.

[Jetguy06]

I had similar problems with hovering until earlier. I'm using a Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle with Saitek Pro Combat rudder pedals. I checked the Apache Special tabs under Options, and set my default trim for collective, cyclic, and pedals to the non-FFB settings. They were set to FFB by default. It feels almost as stable as a Huey in a hover now. Just food for thought.

[Nealius]

By pressing the force trim before taking off I've been able to avoid the wobble, but the rudder pedals are still overly sensitive in the center. This might be the first helo I need to add rudder curves to. 

[Harry_Bumcrack]

14 minutes ago, Nealius said:

By pressing the force trim before taking off I've been able to avoid the wobble, but the rudder pedals are still overly sensitive in the center. This might be the first helo I need to add rudder curves to. 

It took me the better part of two hours 'gameplay' to get my controller axis tuned to my liking (Warthog Hotas with TPR pedals) especially the curves. At first I only had to breathe on the cyclic and it was all over the place, but was having to use a bootful of anti-torque. Still wobbling around a bit on take off / hover & strangely flying better without VR at the moment! Just got to get used to 'rubbing my head and patting my stomach at the same time as well as balancing on a bowling ball' I guess?

A mate of mine is a (civilian) helicopter pilot and he has said that at some moment it will just 'click' and to keep practicing. But he is also the drummer in a band, so is used to his hands and feet doing different things at the same time...

[Nealius]

I've flown all the helicopters we have in DCS, quite smoothly, and the Apache is by far the twitchiest on takeoff and landing. The rudder in particular I don't get. The first few millimeters of travel are incredibly sensitive yet the more pedal you give it the less sensitive it becomes.

[104th_Money]

17 hours ago, ORboarder said:

Holy crap it's money!  long time no play friend, hope you are well.

Turn your SCAS on with trimmer up while still on the ground!

hope you are well!

-Migdriver

 

Yo Bud! Doing pretty good here, hope the same for you. Aint seen you in forever!

Drop in whenever you get a chance, we do some Apache flying!

Take care bud!

[itarrow]

Following with attention this topic, thanks all for the suggestions and advice.

AH64 is my first helicopter, and well the transition is quite… complex.

Spent 2 days just to understand how to take off and land, and now I am barely able to do it with some dignity.

I don’t really know how I will ever be able to reach a stable hover and keep it: I am now able to fight against the Apache and win convincing him to land somewhere near where I want to land… but I can’t even imagine how I will be able to stay hidden behind a hill hovering there and popping up just as needed.

Fun, but hard.

[agamemnon_b5]

43 minutes ago, itarrow said:

but I can’t even imagine how I will be able to stay hidden behind a hill hovering there and popping up just as needed.

 

That will probably be easy once altitude hold is implemented.

[gibbo57]

   Well guys I expected a few problems with early release and I have read how hard it is to control in the air and takeoff, but I cant even do that.   As soon as I start a Cold State mission, the hel'o starts going straight back and crashes into whatever is behind me unless I hit the esc button first.   In the 2 days I have owned it I have never got it off the ground from a cold or hot start and I have recorded being killed 11 times, until I started hitting the esc button.  

   I have uninstalled all my mods in the saved games location, which include all aircraft and all items in the Tech folder and no matter what map I start on, and I own all the maps, the aircraft will just take off backwards without the engines running, ie cold state and I crash into whatever is behind me. I have started a mission with engines running and again all it wants to do is roll backwards until I push stick all the way forward and force trim.   Once in the air, which is once out of every 10 attempts the aircraft will pitch nose down and no matter how much you pull back and force trim up, you will still nose dive into the ground.  

   I have started while already in the air and again it will nose dive and no matter how much force trim up you give it, you will still hot the ground.   I am pretty good at all other helo's and I own all of them.   I fly multiplayer with them and have never had a problem, except with Hind a few times, so I can handle the helo's, but this problem with going backwards is a nightmare.   I have uninstalled all of my bought modules and I own every one of the except the I-16 and still the Apache just goes backwards while in cold state, or any state for the matter.  

   I have run out of ideas on how to fix this problem.   I have all the controls set correctly in options, as shown by senior members on youtube, so who knows whats wrong with it.   Hope someone out there may have some idea where I can start to look to fix the problem, or it will remain uninstalled and I wont waste my flying time on it anymore.  

   Many thanks for the advice but I should have read every post in the forum, but I was going mad.   Tusler gave me the solution.   I had the Game Mode Box ticked in options, its the very top box on the left side with Avionics Box underneath it.   I can now start it, take off and it flies like a dream, just need to do some control fine tuning and it will be my go to Helo when I feel like flying them.   Many thanks again everyone cheers.

   Many thanks for any help in advance, cheers.

Edited March 21, 2022 by gibbo57
Got solved for me by Tusler.

[Sarge55]

Perhaps add a track of your next attempt and one of the helo wizards can have a look.  

All I can say is it sounds like an axis is stuck, doubled up or perhaps inverted... sorry that's all I got.

Strange behavior especially since you have other helo's which don't give you grief.

[Nevyn]

13 hours ago, itarrow said:

I don’t really know how I will ever be able to reach a stable hover and keep it:

You will, if you persevere. When I first jumped into the blackshark many centuries ago I thought I will never ever be able to fly the thing, now I don't think about too much when flying, in fact if I am flying a long flight I read books to pass the time.

 

When I first jumped into the Apache I thought I was going to have to be hands on all the time, no more books, but after a bit of time, I was flying along to a waypoint, trimmed out, inputting a targets point into the TSD, head down until I was done.

 

Wags was right, this chopper is easy to fly, but i didn't think that at first.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Nevyn

[kiss4luna]

I'm getting used to it. Just keep practicing and understand how it works.