How to Takeoff?

[mwlue]

47 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Is the soft zone for hover? Do you not fid that its too short to meet all weight and altitude variations? I have experimented with "standard" curve settings and they always seem to make it easier in one state and harder in another. Gone back to linear now.

Yep, the soft zone is for hover/takeoff in general.  Have not tested in all conditions as I still tweaking the values.

As I mentioned, the values above just for reference, everybody have different needs and different hardware, so one have to experiment to get their own sweetsopt.

[St4rgun]

I'm using a VKB stick with 20 cm curved extension, TM F-16 grip and TFRP pedals.

Always set to linear axis with no deadzone. Works perfect if i TRIM FREQUENTLY. Don't forget to set the trim mode to center (not the FFB) for both the stick and pedals.

As long as the wheels leave the ground TRIM immediately! It'll be much easier.

[Airwolf466]

I'm wondering if something mentioned in a video could a factor-weather.. We know choppers are very effected by high temperatures and high altitude,  and I'm wondering  just how that's all modeled. I have been flight training using the Nevada live fire instant action. I was taking off without incident. Last night, however, I simply could not get off the ground without "rpm low" .I know the DCS weather can be modeled to change  itself, and I haven't yet found where I can adjust weather. I'd like to adjust temp and test the difference. BTW, can anyone point me in the right direction to adjust those settings? Another aspect of weather modeling I'm curious about is wind. The The IE only has a 2-4 knot wind(according to ATC). I've tried upwind and downwind takeoffs, and there doesn't seem to be much difference, but with those calm winds I really didn't expect much anyway.

  Also, we know loadout has a big effect, too. I have been using full fuel,8 Hellfire, and 2 rocket pods as my loadout. Today when I go flying I'm I'm going to try to same IE, but with a lighter loads.

[Mr_Blastman]

Yesterday I forced myself to attempt and succeed at a particularly difficult exercise that helped me learn how to take off, hover and fly way better than I could before:

 

1)  Start from landing position in airbase, preferably a parking spot in a side lot.  The Caucuses live fire range mission is a good one to try this with in instant action.

2)  Increase collective to ~73% which should be enough to hover at 5 ft.

From this point forward you are forbidden from touching your collective again until you land.  The collective is now locked.  You will not touch, no matter what.

3)  Navigate apache out of parking area, take a left down taxi lane, left into next parking area, circle parked apache, then go back the way you came to your own area, circle within, then exit and do this several times.

4)  After completing 3, leave parking area, float down taxi lane and pick up speed until you increase in altitude to approximately 400 ft.

5)  Congratulations.  You are at 400 ft AGL and now must figure out how to descend back to the ground safely without ever touching your collective -and- come to a stationary hover again -while- remaining within the constraints of the taxiway once you fly out over the field and turn around.

Yes.  This can be done.  You can safely descend back to 5 ft AGL without touching the ground or crashing and not use collective.

6)  Once you do this, float back down taxiway and do a few more in/outs into zones, then proceed to your starting spot and circle edges.

7)  Land.  You may now touch the collective again to set down.

 

This entire exercise was extremely frustrating at times and I almost gave up repeatedly, yet I prevailed.  So can anyone else.

 

****Note collective setting may vary depending on input device.  The goal is to rise to 5 ft AGL and maintain stationary hover, so whatever collective setting needed on your rig to accomplish this is where you lock the device at for the duration of the exercise.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Mr_Blastman

[dburne]

41 minutes ago, ApacheLongbow said:

I have definitely a collective problem. It jitters and its very low resolution, at only 8 bits. This means I have only 256 usable "collective units", if that much. While I'm flying, I'm constantly fighting the collective, trying maintain a 0 decent/climb rate. To hover means that I have to mix in X, Y and Z axis, and any one of them affects the others directly. Impossible for now.

Compared to this, how do you guys rate your collective devices? Do you manage to maintain neutral climb/decent rates?

 

Apache seems to be very sensitive to even the smallest movements on the collective. And I have very good controllers.

[JIMJAM]

My first helicopter time was in our state's LE 500E and Wildlife's Long Ranger. It went as imagined.

Then my proper training was in a Hughes 300 @ $125 a hour. My instructor and co worker handed me a ceramic kitchen plate and a small rubber ball.

He told me we wouldn't fly again until I could balance and keep that ball centered on the plate. 8 hrs and 2 pots of coffee later I could do it.

Did more for my touch than any bouncing around burning $$$. Apaches are more common here than Ford Mustangs with KMMT nearby who got the 1st as a guard unit. Can't say I have ever seen any do the things the DCS heli does. It's rock solid with a side slip being far more common that the forward/back "bucking" the DCS Apache seems to enjoy. Also I used a extension on my TM WH stick and it felt like I was stirring a pot of chili. Horrible.

Use zero deadzone on the rudders and practice on the FARPS. Don't be sloppy. Put that imaginary instructor on your shoulder and if/ when you lose it or get sloppy, stop. Reset and go again. Don't use "settings" and tricks as a crutch. IIRC I did flatten the curves on the stick for uniformity and left rudders stock.

Be hard on yourself, taxi centered on the lines, land on that X and from a solid foundation later your can implement those weapon systems.

 

[agamemnon_b5]

I’m assuming hovering problems will go away when ALT and ATT hold are implemented fully.

[Leg2ion]

1 hour ago, JIMJAM said:

Be hard on yourself

@JIMJAM - well said. This module does take practice (only had it 3 days) but enjoying the steep learning curve - deffo out of my comfort zone from loitering around a FEBA in an A10...

[Zeph]

Would one of you kind persons give a hand setting this up on a Windwing Libra and Tarus Hotas system with flight panels.  I can get bird in the air and move around but George just is not working.  Thinking my bindings are FUBR.  Very hard to hold in a hover. 

[gav88888]

I don't know if its just me, but I am on this nearly every day at the moment and I have my hotas all setup with tweaks to the axis etc so that I can take off and hover ok and I have been doing a good job, but since the update I have noticed that it seems to tip over easier now when first applying power to take off, I keep hitting my rotors on the ground, and it also seems to drop out of the sky in a hover easier than before?

I have checked my axis and its all setup as it should be, and I have calibrated the stick again to be sure, but I dunno, just doesn't add up?

 

[BIGNEWY]

can you attach a track replay showing the issue. Also check your trim options in special menu for the AH-64D 

[Hiob]

9 minutes ago, gav88888 said:

I don't know if its just me, but I am on this nearly every day at the moment and I have my hotas all setup with tweaks to the axis etc so that I can take off and hover ok and I have been doing a good job, but since the update I have noticed that it seems to tip over easier now when first applying power to take off, I keep hitting my rotors on the ground, and it also seems to drop out of the sky in a hover easier than before?

I have checked my axis and its all setup as it should be, and I have calibrated the stick again to be sure, but I dunno, just doesn't add up?

 

In case it's not a bug, the following might help: watch you weight (espcially in high altitude/temperature sceneries), release the brakes before attempting takeoff.

[nachomaga]

Happens to me too from time to time, I think even before the last update.

Open DCS, start a quick mission, landed... all ok. Close the mission, open a new one and the Apache has the same controller positions that were in the last moment of first mission (viewing controls in Ctrl+Enter). You can see even in a cold start that the stick and the rudder are not center.

Solution for me: in the second mission I move a bit stick and rudder to center before taking off.

Edited April 1, 2022 by nachomaga

[Hiob]

26 minutes ago, nachomaga said:

Happens to me too from time to time, I think even before the last update.

Open DCS, start a quick mission, landed... all ok. Close the mission, open a new one and the Apache has the same controller positions that were in the last moment of first mission (viewing controls in Ctrl+Enter). You can see even in a cold start that the stick and the rudder are not center.

Solution for me: in the second mission I move a bit stick and rudder to center before taking off.

 

Yes, that's true. The controls do not always correctly syncronise to your physical controls on a mission start (not only in the apache). Always wiggle them around at the beginning and observe the controls overlay.

[EddieMuntz]

On 3/29/2022 at 1:25 AM, Mr_Blastman said:

Yesterday I forced myself to attempt and succeed at a particularly difficult exercise that helped me learn how to take off, hover and fly way better than I could before:

 

1)  Start from landing position in airbase, preferably a parking spot in a side lot.  The Caucuses live fire range mission is a good one to try this with in instant action.

2)  Increase collective to ~73% which should be enough to hover at 5 ft.

From this point forward you are forbidden from touching your collective again until you land.  The collective is now locked.  You will not touch, no matter what.

3)  Navigate apache out of parking area, take a left down taxi lane, left into next parking area, circle parked apache, then go back the way you came to your own area, circle within, then exit and do this several times.

4)  After completing 3, leave parking area, float down taxi lane and pick up speed until you increase in altitude to approximately 400 ft.

5)  Congratulations.  You are at 400 ft AGL and now must figure out how to descend back to the ground safely without ever touching your collective -and- come to a stationary hover again -while- remaining within the constraints of the taxiway once you fly out over the field and turn around.

Yes.  This can be done.  You can safely descend back to 5 ft AGL without touching the ground or crashing and not use collective.

6)  Once you do this, float back down taxiway and do a few more in/outs into zones, then proceed to your starting spot and circle edges.

7)  Land.  You may now touch the collective again to set down.

 

This entire exercise was extremely frustrating at times and I almost gave up repeatedly, yet I prevailed.  So can anyone else.

 

****Note collective setting may vary depending on input device.  The goal is to rise to 5 ft AGL and maintain stationary hover, so whatever collective setting needed on your rig to accomplish this is where you lock the device at for the duration of the exercise.

 

Tried this, full lap of Batumi, only using collective to initially get in the air and land, Honest best drill Ive done so far, using transitional lift or ground effect only to stay aloft, and soley concentrating on yaw and cyclic.

Thanks loads for this, try it it works

 

 

[gav88888]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

In case it's not a bug, the following might help: watch you weight (espcially in high altitude/temperature sceneries), release the brakes before attempting takeoff.

I did a PG mission last night and noticed that it struggles to hold a hover with all the hellfires on and full tanks due to the heat, and I could see the temps in the yellow so that was expected, however you raised a good point re takeoff, I leave the parking brake on when taking off, not always as sometimes I taxi first, but I know I left it on last night. I will do some more testing on that tonight without the brakes on and see if that helps.

I also have noticed by default some left rudder/stick off centre so I always move them before adding power. I think Wags or Casmo mentioned to do this in one of the videos...

[Jim L]

I amhaving same problems, watched from outside view and noticed as soon as my heli went out of control the other ai apaches did as well, whats going on ed, thought all the delays were to get this one perfect before release.

 

[Leg2ion]

4 hours ago, Jim L said:

thought all the delays were to get this one perfect before release.

Must've missed that post!? 

7 hours ago, gav88888 said:

but since the update I have noticed that it seems to tip over easier now

Regarding this - I have found there does appear to be some differences. Very new to this module, and up until now have been doing hot starts (everything already online) just to practice take-offs/landings and to start mapping my controls/setting axis curves etc. 

Now I think I have my curves set (many thanks to @mwlueposting his custom curves here - slightly tweaked to suit my setup) I have looked into basic start up training mission. Once I have gone through a start the aircraft does seem slightly more 'twitchy' compared with starting a training mission already up and running - and in particular the yaw - to the point I had to go back into options to check they were still being applied, and then into the MPDs to make sure SCAS was selected.  Maybe its me - having noticed this at the end of a 2 hour session - but did seem more 'lively'.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Leg2ion

[gav88888]

Regarding the tipping over thing. I done some testing.

- Ground start hot from a flat field or invisible farp

- Tap pedal/stick to centre them

- Apply a small amount of left rudder pedal, enough to counter the expected rotation

- Slowly apply power to take off, it wants to tip over.

Doesn’t do it on airbase. 

I am not sure if this is realistic or not?? 

Edited April 3, 2022 by gav88888

[pii]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:56 PM, dburne said:

Apache seems to be very sensitive to even the smallest movements on the collective. And I have very good controllers.

Have you messed with your curves so its not so sensitive? It took me a week to get mine where I could hover and they still need a little more adjustment. 

[pii]

8 hours ago, gav88888 said:

Regarding the tipping over thing. I done some testing.

- Ground start hot from a flat field or invisible farp

- Tap pedal/stick to centre them

- Apply a small amount of left rudder pedal, enough to counter the expected rotation

- Slowly apply power to take off, it wants to tip over.

Doesn’t do it on airbase. 

I am not sure if this is realistic or not?? 

 

It tips on both for me but its an easy counter, just move the stick the other way a tad. 

[dburne]

21 minutes ago, pii said:

Have you messed with your curves so its not so sensitive? It took me a week to get mine where I could hover and they still need a little more adjustment. 

Yeah I put a small amount of like 10 I think but have a 200mm extension.

[pii]

7 minutes ago, dburne said:

Yeah I put a small amount of like 10 I think but have a 200mm extension.

If ten isn't working, Keep going  I have like 25 but no extention.

BTW where does everyone get these extensions? 

[dburne]

2 minutes ago, pii said:

If ten isn't working, Keep going  I have like 25 but no extention.

BTW where does everyone get these extensions? 

Well for me I got mine from VKB as I have a Gunfighter.

Virpil has them as well which I believe also work with Thrustmaster. There is also extensions by Sahaj for TM equipment.

[pii]

Just now, dburne said:

Well for me I got mine from VKB as I have a Gunfighter.

Virpil has them as well which I believe also work with Thrustmaster. There is also extensions by Sahaj for TM equipment.

Thanks I have a Warthog so I'd need one for that. I guess that's what Google is for