How to Takeoff?

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 3/26/2022 at 3:07 AM, Airwolf466 said:

I'm wondering if something mentioned in a video could a factor-weather.. We know choppers are very effected by high temperatures and high altitude,  and I'm wondering  just how that's all modeled. I have been flight training using the Nevada live fire instant action. I was taking off without incident. Last night, however, I simply could not get off the ground without "rpm low" .I know the DCS weather can be modeled to change  itself, and I haven't yet found where I can adjust weather. I'd like to adjust temp and test the difference. BTW, can anyone point me in the right direction to adjust those settings? Another aspect of weather modeling I'm curious about is wind. The The IE only has a 2-4 knot wind(according to ATC). I've tried upwind and downwind takeoffs, and there doesn't seem to be much difference, but with those calm winds I really didn't expect much anyway.

  Also, we know loadout has a big effect, too. I have been using full fuel,8 Hellfire, and 2 rocket pods as my loadout. Today when I go flying I'm I'm going to try to same IE, but with a lighter loads.

Wags' video tutorial discussed this. He showed a fully loaded Apache having trouble taking off at a MSL>6000 in 41degC. There is a weather cloud icon on the top left in the Mission Editor screen. You can try the Syria map near the coast (low MSL) and then at the centre (high MSL), in summer. You'll find it difficult to hover at high MSL. Then change the month to Dec and temp to 0 deg. And hovering (at that same location with the high MSL) becomes easier.

The service ceiling of the Apache according to wiki is 21,000 ft at 15degC. Got to try but I think that is probably with a light load.

Wiki - "On a standard day, when temperatures are 59 °F (15 °C), the AH-64 has a vertical rate of climb of 1,775 feet per minute (541 m/min), and a service ceiling of 21,000 feet (6,400 m). However, on a hot day, when temperatures are 70 °F (21 °C), its vertical rate of climb is reduced to 1,595 fpm (486 m/min), and service ceiling is reduced to 19,400 feet (5,900 m) due to less dense air.^"

Edited April 6, 2022 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[gav88888]

Interesting, I did a PG mission last night, 20c and I was fully loaded with rockets and hellfires, struggled to take off and hovering was only possible for a few moments.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

On 4/6/2022 at 3:04 PM, gav88888 said:

Interesting, I did a PG mission last night, 20c and I was fully loaded with rockets and hellfires, struggled to take off and hovering was only possible for a few moments.

Got a track? I expect there are things you can do to make things easier for yourself.

[gav88888]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:38 AM, Flamin_Squirrel said:

Got a track? I expect there are things you can do to make things easier for yourself.

Nah no track, I got around it by lowering the temp of the mission

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Sloppy technique!

Try taking-off into wind, and accelerate in ground effect until you've gained some airspeed, and you should be fine with high temps!

[Stewart]

There is a keybind on the cyclic called FCS Release, make sure you unbind it. If you hit it all the trim is turned off. On startup select the UTIL on the Engine page, button T6, and make sure all of the trim on the left side is solid circles, except NOE/A. If these have open circles the trim is turned off and yes it is really hard to take off with the trim off. It is part of my checklist to make sure they are all on. 

[giullep]

I changed rudder from a thrustmaster to an logitech rudder..another world…now i can takeoff, and fly without any problem…

[Kharrn]

Am 23.5.2022 um 19:16 schrieb giullep:

I changed rudder from a thrustmaster to an logitech rudder..another world…now i can takeoff, and fly without any problem…

I can takeoff, hover and fly with my T.FRPedals just fine. Sure they are no beauty and i have to "calibrate" them after each computer restart by doing a full pedal left/right and brakes. But after that they work as intended. Got a nice deadzone and curve setting in the software that came wirh them. For the low price they are great!

Only thing i struggle with is a change of direction during hover (att hold on) and sometimes transition. But i know for the first that i do something wrong with the trimrelease (direction) and/or with the atthold and for the second that i do too much correction (input) on the collective without adjusting cyclic and pedals enough.

So both are pilot errors and yes, they can get better with better hardware, but maybe they dont. Then pilot errors will still be pilot errors.

IMHO the two most vital things at this stage of development for the AH64 are:

1) know what you are doing wrong

2) know that a patch can change everything (((and that Flightmodel and Flight-"Assistance" like SAS are still WiP)))

 

K

[MAXsenna]

3 minutes ago, Kharrn said:

I can takeoff, hover and fly with my T.FRPedals just fine. Sure they are no beauty and i have to "calibrate" them after each computer restart by doing a full pedal left/right and brakes. But after that they work as intended. Got a nice deadzone and curve setting in the software that came wirh them. For the low price they are great!

 

I agree. For the price they are totally adequate. I did swap mine out for some more pricier ones last week though. What I really did love about them, is the ease of taking out and replacing the spring. It will take you seconds when you get used to it. Just turn them upside down, and remove the little lid on the front side, and you'll see what I mean. 

I also added quite a lot of Noygel to get a dampened feeling, which was also great. Except for all the dirt and grit that will get attached. But even that was not a big issue. 

Cheers! 

[pii]

On 5/27/2022 at 6:45 AM, MAXsenna said:

I agree. For the price they are totally adequate.

They work but for me not that well. It is hell to hover as the pedals will eventually get to a point that they suddenly take a lot of input and makes me over steer. I can only make very very very small movements and my feet don't like that tiny bit of movement.  It's like sticktion but its due to the tiny movements that are required. I can do most other things but hovering can be a real pain with those pedals, at least for me. But I don't want to buy 400.00 pedals so I'm sticking with them for now.

[pii]

On 5/27/2022 at 6:45 AM, MAXsenna said:

I agree. For the price they are totally adequate. I did swap mine out for some more pricier ones last week though. What I really did love about them, is the ease of taking out and replacing the spring. It will take you seconds when you get used to it. Just turn them upside down, and remove the little lid on the front side, and you'll see what I mean. 

I also added quite a lot of Noygel to get a dampened feeling, which was also great. Except for all the dirt and grit that will get attached. But even that was not a big issue. 

Cheers! 

I took your post and looked at my pedals and removed the spring and yes super easy. All I can say is WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I have so much more and precise/fine control than ever before. Highly recommended if you have these pedal...

Thanks for the tip!

Edited August 1, 2022 by pii

[Hiob]

7 minutes ago, pii said:

I took your post and looked at my pedals and removed the spring and yes super. All I can say is WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I have so much more and precise/fine control than ever before. Highly recommended if you have these pedal...

Thanks for the tip!

Springless rudder pedals are a game changer for Helicopter flying!

[admiki]

Depending on your pedals, installing a hydro damper will make it an order of magnitude better

[pii]

9 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Springless rudder pedals are a game changer for Helicopter flying!

I will confirm that...night and day!

[pii]

On 5/23/2022 at 1:16 PM, giullep said:

I changed rudder from a thrustmaster to an logitech rudder..another world…now i can takeoff, and fly without any problem…

I simply took the spring out my TM rudder pedals after seeing a random post and the difference is night and day, it's simply amazing to fly  now, it's like I went from noob to ace overnight. If you still have the spring in your TM pedals it is super easy to unhook it. On the bottom of the pedals is a little door that looks like a 9v battery cover, take that off and there is nothing in there but the spring, easy as pie and makes a world of difference!

Edited August 5, 2022 by pii

[pii]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:52 AM, pii said:

I took your post and looked at my pedals and removed the spring and yes super easy. All I can say is WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I have so much more and precise/fine control than ever before. Highly recommended if you have these pedal...

Thanks for the tip!

 

Part Duo:

I have now taken the spring out of my Thrustmaster warthog stick......................

I must return to Chopper Nirvana now.  

I am litterally blown away by the difference these two mods have made in flying the Apache. 

[104th_Money]

I typed part this up for another post. It really wouldnt apply to people with extensions on their joysticks but for the rest of us...

I'd be willing to bet that most people having trouble controlling the Apache throughout the different parts of the flight envelope are using their joystick the same as they would fly an airplane, holding the joystick in the normal position and also using a joystick that has a heavy spring such as a Warthog.

I started holding the joystick at the top with my middle finger on the trigger and my pointer finger up the right side of the stick and putting my fingertip resting on the top pointed to the left. By doing this, I effectively increased by almost double, the amount of movement I have to make by holding it normally at its base. But I am also able to effectively decrease the movement by almost double that I need to make by holding it from the top. This alone allows me to make much more subtle inputs along with having more leverage to break the stiction of the joystick (you know, the force that it takes to get the stick moving in a particular direction especially with the Warthog).

Then i ended up switching from my Warthog to my 15 year old CH Fighterstick Pro that has always had a very light spring. Its less tiring to fly with. Im not sure how heavy other joysticks like the X56 are, but definitely try holding it from the top. It will take some getting used to but I promise you will have much finer control by making less exaggerated movements and getting into a PIO or overcontrolling it simply from the mechanics of the joystick. By the way, I don't use curves or trim when flying it.

[MAXsenna]

12 hours ago, pii said:

Part Duo:

I have now taken the spring out of my Thrustmaster warthog stick......................

I must return to Chopper Nirvana now.  

I am litterally blown away by the difference these two mods have made in flying the Apache. 

Now, get an extension...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294502001765

Edited August 14, 2022 by MAXsenna
added link

[pii]

8 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Now, get an extension...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294502001765

 

That was my original plan but sinse removing the spring I can't say I need one now. Without the spring it is very easy to move. Matter of fat a little Too easy. I'm now thinking  of a "green spring" which is a lighter spring to give back at least a little centering ability. But for now it is super smooth and I can fly it like an ACE (ok maybe not that good ) I can litterely make micro movements now and that makes a big difference. 

[MAXsenna]

7 hours ago, pii said:

That was my original plan but sinse removing the spring I can't say I need one now. Without the spring it is very easy to move. Matter of fat a little Too easy. I'm now thinking  of a "green spring" which is a lighter spring to give back at least a little centering ability. But for now it is super smooth and I can fly it like an ACE (ok maybe not that good ) I can litterely make micro movements now and that makes a big difference. 

Have you "sanded down" and greased it yet? I have a 2x20cm with the blue spring, and that is actually little light for 40cm. The green might be perfect, or, you could try to got the other way, and mod in some "clutches" or something. I use FFB for helicopters.
I have a green spring too, I've never bothered to try.

[pii]

16 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Have you "sanded down" and greased it yet? I have a 2x20cm with the blue spring, and that is actually little light for 40cm. The green might be perfect, or, you could try to got the other way, and mod in some "clutches" or something. I use FFB for helicopters.
I have a green spring too, I've never bothered to try.

They say the green spring should be used without an extension as it significantly lighter than the standard. So if that works then I do  not need to invest in any extention, saving $$.

I think it's a little too loose right now but its still better than before by a mile. Didn't do any other MOD I was just doing it quickly to see how it would be. However the O-ring came out and expanded and now will not go back in, so I will have to do the other MOD at some point when I get a replacment O-Ring.

Send me that Green spring I'll try it out for you  

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, pii said:

They say the green spring should be used without an extension as it significantly lighter than the standard. So if that works then I do  not need to invest in any extention, saving $$.

I think it's a little too loose right now but its still better than before by a mile. Didn't do any other MOD I was just doing it quickly to see how it would be. However the O-ring came out and expanded and now will not go back in, so I will have to do the other MOD at some point when I get a replacment O-Ring.

Send me that Green spring I'll try it out for you  

Where do you live? 

I just ordered to rings from BuddyFox today!  

Mine was in pieces, seems it's actually kind of crucial. Didn't noticed until the other day, when I took it apart to look at some strange issue. Have only been using other sticks lately, but I'm into the F1 now, so I want to fix it.  

[pii]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Where do you live? 

I just ordered to rings from BuddyFox today!  

Mine was in pieces, seems it's actually kind of crucial. Didn't noticed until the other day, when I took it apart to look at some strange issue. Have only been using other sticks lately, but I'm into the F1 now, so I want to fix it.  

I live in USA Florida

BuddyFox, I'll have check them put for an o-ring the only other place I found was the same place that makes the green spring. 

Yeah I just laid my O-ring on top and it is held in place by just pressure, maybe, or it may already be flopping around in there  So I guess this MOD is a WIP. Much like the AH-64 is.

[MAXsenna]

6 hours ago, pii said:

I live in USA Florida

BuddyFox, I'll have check them put for an o-ring the only other place I found was the same place that makes the green spring. 

Yeah I just laid my O-ring on top and it is held in place by just pressure, maybe, or it may already be flopping around in there  So I guess this MOD is a WIP. Much like the AH-64 is.

Florida! Cool!  Been there lots, love it! I'll contact you in PM when the o-rings arrive. I might not need both.  

BuddyFox is in Finland, Sahaj is in Poland. 

Hmm, if it works out, my daughter will go to San Diego in a couple of weeks. I'm in Oslo, Norway. 

Cheers! 

[pii]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Florida! Cool!  Been there lots, love it! I'll contact you in PM when the o-rings arrive. I might not need both.  

BuddyFox is in Finland, Sahaj is in Poland. 

Hmm, if it works out, my daughter will go to San Diego in a couple of weeks. I'm in Oslo, Norway. 

Cheers! 

Well it seems DCS has done it again and made me spend money on new stuff. So I now have, or will soon, a Virpil Warbird base incoming! Actually I just happened to see and ad that Virpil had a new USA Store/Warehouse, while looking for o-rings and springs, that is only about 50 miles from me and I took that as a sign  from above.   Thats what I'm going to tell the wifey anyways.....

So it looks like the warthog base will be retiring soon no O-rings or springs needed. The warbird base sounds just like what I needed, just a little more costly  Oh well! lol

Take care.