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Boresighting IHADSS in VR


RealDCSpilot

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I can't get the alignment right, it's always a bit to much off the center even if the circles show perfectly centered. (All in VR)


Edited by RealDCSpilot
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Unfortunately, this did not work for me. I must be doing something wrong.

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It actually looks like to be a good workaround. If you have mouse disabled a cross appears right in the center of your view which is the perfect aim point for boresighting.


Edited by RealDCSpilot

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Am 18.3.2022 um 20:23 schrieb Bri01:

Just look straight at boresight. Circles will be off that's fine. If you make circles concentric your aim will be way off

this is actually exactly the opposite what others say … i dont know who id right. 

you say just look straight into boresight, others say place your head so that everything is aligned. 

others say you need to adjust the seat so that everything is aligned without moving the head at all!

the official quick start manual says pretty much what you say -> head position natural posture, look into boresight, click, finished. nothing about concentric at all

i think we need @Wags to clear this up, i think there is a lot of confusion about boresighting


Edited by NWGJulian
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  • ED Team

We will check but please always included a short track replay example. 

thanks

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I think i found out the best way for now. At start, make sure to use the cockpit camera up and down functionality (bindable buttons) to make your head's position is looking straight at the boresight reticle unit. After that use the boresighting procedure with ignoring the circles but centering the fixed centered VR crosshair at the boresight reticle unit. Check the alignment with PNVS overlay against world objects like horizon, clouds, vehicles...


Edited by RealDCSpilot

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5 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

I think i found out the best way for now. At start, make sure to use the cockpit camera up and down functionality (bindable buttons) to make your head's position is looking straight at the boresight reticle unit. After that use the boresighting procedure with ignoring the circles but centering the fixed centered VR crosshair at the boresight reticle unit. Check the alignment with PNVS overlay against world objects like horizon, clouds, vehicles...

 

This is not necessary. As Bri01 mentioned above, just look at the boresight reticule from your natural seated position, center your IHADDS reticule in the middle of the boresight without being concerned if all the circles are concentric. I have done this multiple times and my aim is accurate when slewing the cannon around every time. I only fly in VR as well. 

7 hours ago, NWGJulian said:

 

the official quick start manual says pretty much what you say -> head position natural posture, look into boresight, click, finished. nothing about concentric at all

 

 

I think this sums it up pretty well and I have had 100% success using this exact method in VR. 

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb DirtyMike0330:

This is not necessary. As Bri01 mentioned above, just look at the boresight reticule from your natural seated position, center your IHADDS reticule in the middle of the boresight without being concerned if all the circles are concentric. I have done this multiple times and my aim is accurate when slewing the cannon around every time. I only fly in VR as well. 

I think this sums it up pretty well and I have had 100% success using this exact method in VR. 

okay, thanks!

it just wonderes me that - at least in the youtube videos - people seem to try to make the yellow circles concentric. there is also a picture of that in the manual.

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Makes no sense that the circles don't have to be concentric.  It ensures that's you're looking parallel to the long axis of the of the aircraft (the bore in this case).

If you guys are saying it doesn't need to be done then theoretically you could put your head anywhere it'd fit in the cockpit and look at the boresight tube and think you're boresighted.

I get everything centered and concentric every time and my cannon is very accurate.

Edit: This affects the FLIR too.  Boresight it properly and you can watch seemless transitions of buildings from visible to lowlight image under you.  Don't do it right there is a noticeable offset.


Edited by Buschwick
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15 minutes ago, Buschwick said:

Makes no sense that the circles don't have to be concentric.  It ensures that's you're looking parallel to the long axis of the of the aircraft (the bore in this case).

If you guys are saying it doesn't need to be done then theoretically you could put your head anywhere it'd fit in the cockpit and look at the boresight tube and think you're boresighted.

I get everything centered and concentric every time and my cannon is very accurate.

Edit: This affects the FLIR too.  Boresight it properly and you can watch seemless transitions of buildings from visible to lowlight image under you.  Don't do it right there is a noticeable offset.

 

I guess I'm just wondering why I can do it without getting concentric circles and the aiming is spot-on. I've been digging through this manual at https://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-ApacheLongbow.pdf on page 4-74 and all it says for the boresighting procedure is: 
6. WPN page - BORESIGHT button - Select.
7. IHADSS button - Select.
8. PRI INT LT knob - Adjust as desired.
9. HMD reticle - Align with BRU.
10. PLRT B/S switch - B/S and release. B/S NOW button (aircraft equipped with MTADS provisions) - Select.

Wouldn't it specify needing concentric circles if that was vital? Seems to me it just implies you need to have your IHADDS reticule pointing at the boresight unit and that is that. Additionally, in order to get concentric circles, I have to like slink way down in my seat, and this is with proper height alignment (as far as I can tell). That doesn't make much sense to me that a pilot would need to slouch way down just to get concentric circles and then sit back up. Especially since boresighting can be done in-flight as well. 


Edited by DirtyMike0330
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On 3/18/2022 at 8:11 PM, RealDCSpilot said:

I can't get the alignment right, it's always a bit to much off the center even if the circles show perfectly centered.

 

If you are using gun/rockets, are you in auto or manual range? And are you moving or hovering when engaging?

Can you explain how it's off? You either you or your target or both  are moving, you need to lead it.

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I had this also in VR, tried to get the circle concentric because that was what Wags said in his YT video but after doing this in VR i saw that my pnvs sight in my ihadss was way off to the right( i think it was right). If i just place the cross in the boresight i'm spot on. I think this might be a bug, because Wags was doing this on 2d(monitor) looks like it works there but in 3d(VR) the cross is only rendered in the right eye and not in the middle of the monitor, this might cause the trouble, just my thoughts.


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2 minutes ago, admiki said:

If you are using gun/rockets, are you in auto or manual range? And are you moving or hovering when engaging?

Can you explain how it's off? You either you or your target or both  are moving, you need to lead it.

He is talking about trying to get everything perfectly concentric and lined up when boresighting the IHADSS, not weapons deployment. 

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Have a look at what this guy is doing right here...boresighting a rifle scope. This is exactly what we're doing.  Saying that the circles don't have to be concentric is saying that you could offset this scope in any direction and the result would be the same.  The boresight in this picture is fixed to the rifle and represents the axis that the bore is on.  Take that scope and mount it an inch to the right of  centerline and then boresighting will result in a rifle that shoots wildy to the right at any range.

image.png

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1 minute ago, unknown said:

I had this also in VR, tried to get the circle concentric because that was what Wags said in his YT video but after doing this in VR i saw that my pnvs sight in my ihadss was way off to the right( i think it was right). If i just place the cross in the boresight i'm spot on. I think this might be a bug, because Wags was doing this on 2d(monitor) looks like it works there but in 3d(VR) it is only rendered in the right eye, this might cause the trouble, just my thoughts.

Yeah, I am in no way discounting the possibility that this isn't just a bug at the moment because I can see both sides of the argument as being plausible. All I know at the moment is that I tried a few times to boresight with everything concentric and could not hit ANYTHING with the cannon. When I boresight as you stated (and I stated above) the accuracy is perfect. 

1 minute ago, Buschwick said:

Have a look at what this guy is doing right here...boresighting a rifle scope. This is exactly what we're doing.  Saying that the circles don't have to be concentric is saying that you could offset this scope in any direction and the result would be the same.  The boresight in this picture is fixed to the rifle and represents the axis that the bore is on.  Take that scope and mount it an inch to the right of  centerline and then boresighting will result in a rifle that shoots wildy to the right at any range.

image.png

Yeah, I'm familiar with boresighting as a concept. It could definitely be a bug, but at the moment a concentric boresighting = rounds way off and a "look at the BRU" boresighting is very accurate rounds on target. This is also in VR with one-eye render, I don't know if it is working as intended in 2D or with a 2-eye render. 

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That computer is assuming your right eye is looking directly down the bore when hitting the button.  I know with both eyes rendered the display is stereo-visioned to infinity so when focusing on something in the cockpit the crosshairs are in different spots.

Also realize that when shooting to the left and right the bullets are also travelling the direction and speed of the aircraft.  90 degree shot while travelling 100ft/second and lets say a 2 second time of flight...we're 200 feet off from where your crosshair was when you pulled the trigger.

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4 minutes ago, Buschwick said:

That computer is assuming your right eye is looking directly down the bore when hitting the button.  I know with both eyes rendered the display is stereo-visioned to infinity so when focusing on something in the cockpit the crosshairs are in different spots.

Also realize that when shooting to the left and right the bullets are also travelling the direction and speed of the aircraft.  90 degree shot while travelling 100ft/second and lets say a 2 second time of flight...we're 200 feet off from where your crosshair was when you pulled the trigger.

Sure, but rounds were also way off to either direction with targets straight ahead, despite a crosshair on target. And then on-target when boresighted the "wrong way". Again, could just be a VR-specific 1-eye render bug at the moment but I can only go off the results and for now I'd rather be able to hit targets lol

 

Edit: To be clear, I agree with you regarding how it should probably work and when I first attempted to boresight the IHADSS, I also thought it should be "straight down the barrel"...but then I couldn't hit a damn thing until changing the procedure. It doesn't make sense that doing it the wrong way = accurate fire unless something is borked. 


Edited by DirtyMike0330
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3 hours ago, DirtyMike0330 said:

This is not necessary. As Bri01 mentioned above, just look at the boresight reticule from your natural seated position, center your IHADDS reticule in the middle of the boresight without being concerned if all the circles are concentric. I have done this multiple times and my aim is accurate when slewing the cannon around every time. I only fly in VR as well. 

I think this sums it up pretty well and I have had 100% success using this exact method in VR. 

Ok. I just tried this method 6 times. 3 Hot starts and 3 cold starts and it works for me. Maybe it's not suppose to work this way but it does. Just get the LOS Reticle inside of the Boresight Reticle Unit and disregard the circles. I get much much better results this way. Maybe there's a bug in VR where the circles are misaligned as I mentioned in my thread. Thanks @DirtyMike0330 for the tip.


Edited by pimp
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I know it's already tagged "Investigating", but I thought I'd throw in a track file: AH64D IHADSS GUN TEST.trk

 

I'm not sure if people can actually see in the track file where I'm looking at. As when I play back the track in VR, it doesn't show where I was looking when I initially played it (which is quite essential to show how I did the IHADSS boresight alignment). Just in case you won't be able to see what I did, here's a small summary:

 

  • You'll see me do (a very abbreviated version of) a cold and dark startup. With ±800feet to my right, an enemy cow!
  • Initially, when I do the IHADSS boresight before engine start, I made sure that the yellow circle centerlines are line up.
  • I bring the Apache to a (lousy) hover and set gun range to 800ft.
  • My bullet impact points are way left and above the target (cow isn't even scared)

 

  • Then, while in hover, I first boresight the IHADSS purposely a bit too far to the right, and then too the left. On both tries my bullet impact points are way off. (which makes sense)

 

  • Then finally, while still in hover, I align the IHADSS reticule (sorry if that's not the right terminology) with the center of the black circular boresight thingy (again, terminology), while completely ignoring the yellow circles. Like this:

Screen_220320_204105.jpg

(reticule in center - yellow circles all the way up)

  • And this time, the gun seems very accurate and the result is a dead enemy cow!

 

So... The main question here is, should we just ignore trying to get the yellow rings aligned, or is this a (possibly VR related) bug?

 

(fwiw: tested using a Reverb G1 and IHADSS rendering in right eye)


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Hi, I'm using an index and I use the following procedure, which only works if you set the IHADSS rendering to both eyes:

1) focus on the yellow circles. you will see the green cross twice
2) put the green crosses left and right of the boresighting circles, like so:

image.png

3) move your head laterally up/down and side to side to make the circles concentric, while keeping the crosses equidistant to the center.
4) Press TDC enter.

Again, only works for if you commit the sacrilege of rendering this on both eyes, which I don't mind at all. Using this procedure the gun, CPG slaving etc. are all spot-on.


Edited by Toumal
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This thread is almost useless until you get to like 4 posts before this, without knowing 1) What you have the render set to (L/R/Both eyes) and 2) Knowing if you are left or right eye dominant and 3) Are you closing left, right or no eye when you are attempting to boresight, personal results aren't helpful. This is going to be an issue, I think maybe a Special option for accessibility (or keybind to force an ideal B/S) may be the long term solution required to just force a good bore sighting. 

Personally, I'm left eye dominant which is uncommon for right handed people and have the render set to both eyes for that reason. To me, these workarounds while great for now shouldn't be seen as a solution long term. For one, they don't really work that great, your mileage may vary, but even using one that works for you, it's still hard to get it to where, lets say you can reliable line up a medium range rocket run. 

Personally what Toumal said works the "best" for me, which still isn't great but usable, however I shouldn't have to do eye gymnastics to the degree required for a stereogram to boresight my HMD 🙂

If you want to figure out which is your dominant eye, you can hold your pointer finger a few inches from your face and close one eye, if your finger DOESN'T move that is your dominant eye. Closing the other eye should cause it to appear to shift. Another way is think about which eye you close to aim a gun, you tend to favor your dominant eye. If you're weird like me and right handed w/ a left dominant eye it's very hard to properly shoot a rifle. 

 

EDIT: Added #3 about which eye is being closed and how to determine which eye is dominant


Edited by Stal2k
Added #3 and how to figure out which eye is dominant.
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Hello all just adding to the bug report.  I am on a Valve index.  From left to right you can see me attempting to align with the circles concentric followed by just aiming at the boresight.  In the second image of both you can see that the aim is off to the left.  In this example I have the  IHADDS rendering in both eyes but I had the same results with only the right eye.

IHADDS1.pngIHADDS2.pngIHADDS3.pngIHADDS4.png

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Your deviation is mostly in the vertical axis.  The instance on the right means you needed to look down just a tad.  This will affect ranging.

 

Edit:  I'm not counting this out as "correct as is" by any stretch of the imagination...but the way the system is set up to boresight will not have these quarks in RL.  That said..the 30 is an area defense weapon.  Walk your impacts on to the target instead of trying to be a surgeon with it.

 


Edited by Buschwick

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7 hours ago, DirtyMike0330 said:

Edit: To be clear, I agree with you regarding how it should probably work and when I first attempted to boresight the IHADSS, I also thought it should be "straight down the barrel"...but then I couldn't hit a damn thing until changing the procedure. It doesn't make sense that doing it the wrong way = accurate fire unless something is borked. 

I was the same, but I was only aligning the circles and not putting the crosshair in them. It could be if you are only crosshairing the boresight, but not aligning the circles as well, your natural head position is close enough so it doesn't make much difference. Doing it the real-world way (crosshair aligned *and* concentric circles) seems to me to be the most accurate and accounts for all natural head positions.

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