reported Boresighting IHADSS in VR

[coolts]

23 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I personally don’t. I just point at the centre of the bore sight unit and then click bore sight on the MPD.

I tried both, and in the former case the aim is quite a bit off. In the latter it’s spot-on, providing you account for movement of the helicopter: the shells don’t travel at light speed after all…

I tried a few time last night and i cant get it right in VR.  Aim is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.  So i'm stuck with hot starts in VR. I'm sure this is something that will be sorted. 

The boresighted aim is always high and to the left, which would correspond to the sight being rendered in the correct (right) eye in VR and centrally in 2d.  The game is boresighting assuming 2d so when you actually do it with right eye only, its parallaxing (collimating?) the opposite way.  Probably .

[JSpidey]

2 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said:

 

We don't want to sit with our headsets on, holding 36 buttons we can't see, trying to center a cross hair on a bullseye.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Just put the green cross hairs in the center of the boresight. Don't worry about the circles.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


 

If you're in VR just move forward a bit, I demonstrated this in VR. I also demonstrated the mistake most people do when they boresight improperly and also what I needed to do in order to align everything, pretty straight forward, takes me about 5 seconds to do.

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by JSpidey

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, JSpidey said:

If you're in VR just move forward a bit, I demonstrated this in VR. I also demonstrated the mistake most people do when they boresight improperly and also what I needed to do in order to align everything, pretty straight forward, takes me about 5 seconds to do.

Maybe the best option to do this video with the voice if You can :), a little hard to figure out what are you doing exactly, or at least the subtitles?

[JSpidey]

35 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Maybe the best option to do this video with the voice if You can :), a little hard to figure out what are you doing exactly, or at least the subtitles?

You can see the camera and the movements I make to center it, sorry for no voice I made the video in the spare of the moment to demonstrate it, wasn't really making a full on tutorial.

[RealDCSpilot]

The problem with your video is the lack of checking the result at the end. By simply bringing up the PNVS FLIR in the helmet, you can check if the whole procedure was a success. Your method is not working on my end by the way, the PNVS always shows that it's off by 10-20 meters for a target that is 100 meters away for instance, where it should match almost perfectly (checked against buildings, vehicles, horizon line in front of me).

Edited March 24, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[JSpidey]

3 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

The problem with your video is the lack of checking the result at the end. By simply bringing up the PNVS FLIR in the helmet, you can check if the whole procedure was a success. Your method is not working on my end by the way, the PNVS always shows that it's off by 10-20 meters for a target that is 100 meters away for instance, where it should match almost perfectly (checked against buildings, vehicles, horizon line in front of me).

 

The PNVS is 3 meters in front of your head and low, it's not supposed to match up, there's an offset and it's normal.

[Japo32]

Ok... @BIGNEWYI have find this issue today in VR (only in VR as I tried this in trackir before and was perfect) with the GP/S.

As said I tried in multiplayer the eye monocle with the GP/S before BUT with Trackir and no problem. Today I couldn't align it. 

Now I have made a try in single player and still have the same issue. In VR pilot, no problem but yes in VR GP/S. The sight is off to the left.. so when I aim with the cannot to an object the guns goes to the right of it. 

I upload the track file. In my view the circles were perfect centered... BUT ANOTHER THING... to allow that center, I had to lower on my seat a few centimeters. I am tall so it is a bit difficult. Apache I suppose is made for small people. XD. Once centered, of course I raised my view to a confortable possition. No problem with the Pilot. Just confortable position to boresight.

All the bore was made with the polarity switch to bore, that the manual says it has not function, but it really has.

AH64_GPS_Boresight_notAligned.trk

 

EDIT: I think the problem comes with the center of the VR. In the GP/S is too close to the screen. It should be a little more rear. If I put my body rear, I can more or less center it (very difficult, but at least don't ahve to lower my body a lot and more or less is centered)

Edited March 25, 2022 by Japo32

[tech_op2000]

11 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

The problem with your video is the lack of checking the result at the end. By simply bringing up the PNVS FLIR in the helmet, you can check if the whole procedure was a success. Your method is not working on my end by the way, the PNVS always shows that it's off by 10-20 meters for a target that is 100 meters away for instance, where it should match almost perfectly (checked against buildings, vehicles, horizon line in front of me).

 

I agree with using PNVS to confirm the quality of the alignment. I was able to test using trackIR and found that I would also get a bad alignment if I held my head forward while lining up the IHADSS. I would only get a good alignment if I had my head down and right of center a little to line up the rings and with the IHADSS crosshair perfectly centered on the sight, and my head about the same distance from the indicator as it would normally be.

[Clogger]

Personally I can Boresight the IHADDS easy in VR , i.e all circles lining up if I have the right eye render, if both eye render it's a PITA and goes wrong.

I have created a wish list topic to remove the need to boresight in the special tab, 3rd time being posted in this thread (thanks YoYo for also linking).

This is a simple work around, remove the need to do it as option, it's a mundane task which doesn't add anything to the module really IMHO in terms of immersion and with the amount of different headsets etc.. this will probably be an ongoing issue.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Clogger

[RealDCSpilot]

16 hours ago, JSpidey said:

The PNVS is 3 meters in front of your head and low, it's not supposed to match up, there's an offset and it's normal.

Sorry, but you get this wrong. The whole sensor pack on the front ist 100% aligned to your gun and the other weapon systems. Your helmet sight needs to be aligned with them when looking straight forward. That's the whole purpose of boresighting. The only acceptable offset, which comes naturally, is the parallax offset the more you are looking left or right and up or down, because of the distance between the point of view from the nose and the point of view of your head.

Edited March 25, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[JSpidey]

13 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Sorry, but you get this wrong. The whole sensor pack on the front ist 100% aligned to your gun and the other weapon systems. Your helmet sight needs to be aligned with them when looking straight forward. That's the whole purpose of boresighting. The only offset, which comes naturally, is the parallax offset the more you are looking left or right and up or down, because the distance between the point of view from the nose and the point of view of your head.

 

I was only referring to the PNVS/TADS video feed, I know it's supposed to be 100% aligned to your gun and other weapon systems.

[RealDCSpilot]

PNVS/TADS video feed is the direct sensor targeting feed, boresighting makes your helmet sight synchronize and match with it. With some additional adjustments it is possible right now, but the realistic concentric circles method doesn't provide this in it's current state.

[JSpidey]

1 hour ago, RealDCSpilot said:

PNVS/TADS video feed is the direct sensor targeting feed, boresighting makes your helmet sight synchronize and match with it. With some additional adjustments it is possible right now, but the realistic concentric circles method doesn't provide this in it's current state.

Interesting.. though according to Casmo the offset is normal and is like that in the real aircraft.

[TOViper]

On 3/20/2022 at 9:09 PM, Toumal said:

Hi, I'm using an index and I use the following procedure, which only works if you set the IHADSS rendering to both eyes:

1) focus on the yellow circles. you will see the green cross twice
2) put the green crosses left and right of the boresighting circles, like so:

3) move your head laterally up/down and side to side to make the circles concentric, while keeping the crosses equidistant to the center.
4) Press TDC enter.

Again, only works for if you commit the sacrilege of rendering this on both eyes, which I don't mind at all. Using this procedure the gun, CPG slaving etc. are all spot-on.

 

That works for the CV1 - as one my expect - very well too.
Commiting the sacrileg of rendering both eyes is the best way of getting it boresighted.
Its very interesting that even the slightest offset has great impact on the precision when using the gun then  ...

Edited March 25, 2022 by TOViper

[RealDCSpilot]

29 minutes ago, JSpidey said:

Interesting.. though according to Casmo the offset is normal and is like that in the real aircraft.

Listen more closely to him, he is talking about the parallax offset as soon as you start looking more far left or right...

This is how i fix the problem:

Edited March 25, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[JSpidey]

4 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Listen more closely to him, he is talking about the parallax offset as soon as you start looking around...

This is how i fix the problem:

Alright I understand what you're saying, it's just I never had an issue doing it my way, and the gun is always dead accurate.

[RealDCSpilot]

5 minutes ago, JSpidey said:

Alright I understand what you're saying, it's just I never had an issue doing it my way, and the gun is always dead accurate.

See, this is the problem, there should be no "my way" or "your way". We need one exact method that works the same for everybody without the fiddling.

Edited March 25, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[JSpidey]

13 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

See, this is the problem, there should be no "my way" or "your way". We need one exact method that works the same for everybody without the fiddling.

 

Well, I know the proper way to do it and I have no issues. So I'm going to keep doing it the way it says in the manual and I'm happy with the results

[Clogger]

12 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Listen more closely to him, he is talking about the parallax offset as soon as you start looking more far left or right...

This is how i fix the problem:

 

You are removing paralax by gimping the system, you will have some paralax as the PNNVS is lower than your head. Casmo explained this in a vid and it happens in the real bird (maybe in DCS it doesn't get the paralax effect perfect)

By doing what you are doing you are now telling the system you are looking somewhere else so that the FLIR image lines up with the real world. The idea of the boresight is so that your crosshair is a known datam point for targeting and not that the FLIR image lines up with the surrounding daytime real world. 

[key_stroked]

This is marked as "solved" but the solution completely goes against what Wags' tutorial video says to do.

[Fleshpiston]

On 3/24/2022 at 1:59 AM, Mr_Blastman said:

This seems to be a contested, confused subject.  Per the quick start guide, 

 

Now, I have seen a few interpretations of this.  Mostly though, including in videos, I see users insisting and illustrating one must do physical gymnastics in order to make a perfect bullseye and then and only then put the IHAADS crosshairs on the center dot... assuming you can keep the dot in the spot once the crosshairs reach this.

 

To me, the concept of having to contort my back and move around in my seat seems silly and absurd.  This can't be right, can it?  My natural position for my head puts the dot off center, always, and most often towards the top of the boresight in Image #1:

 

That is achieved with no gymnastics.  I look down at the boresight using my track IR and that is where I must center.  Certainly this disagrees with what I have seen, that "no, I am doing it wrong."

 

If I twist in my seat, bend the back of my chair, cause strain on my own lower back and neck, and become a proverbial faux midget I can get it to look like this, but notice my crosshairs are below the boresight.  If I tilt my head at that point... they go off center, but before tilting and much great discomfort in Image #2:

 

In other words, I feel Image #1 should be acceptable and okay.  I don't think one should have to do gymnastics in their cockpit to form a perfect bullseye, should they?  After all, the boresight is a collimated sight, and thus the IHAADS boresighting system should have code that adapts based on looking at the dot from your "natural seated position" which includes that dot being off center like in Image #1.  Thus, no gymnastics required, it should understand that if crosshairs are at top of ring then my natural head position is higher than if the dot were in the center, thus, if one were to do gymnastics to get the dot in the center then when you are done the alignment would be porked because you'd be returning your head to the natural spot.

 

Am I making sense?

 

I would like some clarification on this once and for all.  I think everyone would benefit from this.  Thanks.

 

Track IR and VR are different beasts due to the stereoscopic use in VR

[Manawar]

Here is what I know....

If you setup a quick mission where the Apache is already in flight, the IHADSS is dead accurate. I have not been able to use the gun with a consistent alignment with a manual alignment. 

[key_stroked]

For what it's worth, I did some testing on a 2560 x 1080 ultrawide curved LG monitor and TrackIR. With that setup, the method shown in Wag's video is correct.

I don't own VR so I can't test it using that.

[RealDCSpilot]

10 hours ago, Clogger said:

You are removing paralax by gimping the system, you will have some paralax as the PNNVS is lower than your head. Casmo explained this in a vid and it happens in the real bird (maybe in DCS it doesn't get the paralax effect perfect)

By doing what you are doing you are now telling the system you are looking somewhere else so that the FLIR image lines up with the real world. The idea of the boresight is so that your crosshair is a known datam point for targeting and not that the FLIR image lines up with the surrounding daytime real world. 

The FLIR image comes directly from the sights (PNVS and TADS), it's center points are the primary targeting point which is symbolized with a crosshair on all the internal monitors. The helmet monocle is nothing else than an augmented input device that needs to be aligned as best as possible because it's crosshair is just an overlay and does not represent the actual targeting point as long as you don't align it correctly. That the FLIR does not need to line up when you are straight looking forward is nonsense. Try it for yourself, an offset like in the first my screenshots (a bit to the left and down) will always lead to missing the target by the same offset when shooting the gun.

@key_strokedI also renamed the thread to make it more clear that the problem is only affecting VR as it seems. It's also a bit logical because the current version of the concentric circles seems to be made for monitor usage only. For monitor players the head position is always on the same spot, a fixed known position in 3D space that can be taken easily into a triangulation equation. In VR it differs like in real life, every pilot comes in a slightly different size and that results in a different head position.

Edited March 26, 2022 by RealDCSpilot

[NWGJulian]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb RealDCSpilot:

See, this is the problem, there should be no "my way" or "your way". We need one exact method that works the same for everybody without the fiddling.

 

exactly!

i personally do it the same way as@JSpidey does, and it works good. but is that the right way? i have no idea.

i will try the suggested method with just looking into the BS device (ignoring yellow circles) today and see if its any different