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Boresighting IHADSS in VR


RealDCSpilot

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I only see this as a workaround for now. JSpidey's method tries to find the position where monitor players have there fixed head position. My method is only the refinement for whatever everyone elses head position might be in VR.

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26 minutes ago, NWGJulian said:

exactly!

i personally do it the same way as@JSpidey does, and it works good. but is that the right way? i have no idea.

i will try the suggested method with just looking into the BS device (ignoring yellow circles) today and see if its any different

I'm doing it the way it says to do it in the manual and it gives me good results.

18 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

I only see this as a workaround for now. JSpidey's method tries to find the position where monitor players have there fixed head position. My method is only the refinement for whatever everyone elses head position might be in VR.

Don't forget in non-VR you can use "Right CTRL + Right Shift + Num 2 8 4 6 * -" and you can change your head position. You can also save whatever position you set it to but I forget what keybind that is.


Edited by JSpidey
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56 minutes ago, JSpidey said:

I'm doing it the way it says to do it in the manual and it gives me good results.

Don't forget in non-VR you can use "Right CTRL + Right Shift + Num 2 8 4 6 * -" and you can change your head position. You can also save whatever position you set it to but I forget what keybind that is.

 

RAlt + Num0

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Are you using the IHADSS set to both eyes in VR? if so you'll see two crosshairs when trying to align them on the boresight alignment. The only way I have found to get that to work is to center the alignment between the two crosshairs you can see.. it works. The issue the perspective is from both eyes so the crosshairs are aligned to infinity then, thus why you tend to see double when looking at something in the cockpit for anything on the IHADSS. the correct aiming spot then is between them both. If you are using just the right eye... well then I don't know know what you are doing wrong.. you just align the crosshair with the boresight bullseye and align the circles to be concentric. 

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10 hours ago, key_stroked said:

For what it's worth, I did some testing on a 2560 x 1080 ultrawide curved LG monitor and TrackIR. With that setup, the method shown in Wag's video is correct.

I don't own VR so I can't test it using that.

DCS-Apache-Boresight-testing.jpg

 

Interesting, but what about looking at the dot in #2 when they are not centered instead of making the cross centered with the round tube?  i.e. cross centered on the central dot.

My theory is there should be geometric computations built into the IHAADS software knowing that it is a collimated dot so they could determine your true head position from those calculations knowing you looked at the dot in the off center spot.

 

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10 hours ago, JSpidey said:

Yeah, makes all sense if you get it in the right ears. Of course the PNVS will match less when you are looking more to each side or up and down. The mismatch will grow the more you look away from the center, that's the paralax between your eyes (head) position and the sensor package on the nose. But if you are on the ground and look straight forward center, reference points like horizon line and objects should match almost perfectly. An offset of the PNVS in left or right -> after boresighting, WHEN LOOKING STRAIGHT FORWARD <- is really bad because your IHADSS will always aim with that offset later when you start attacking a target in flight. An up and down offset would be much easier to compensate. Checking your PNVS against the front center view is just a method to verify the result of boresighting in VR, because you can easily mess it up there when only using the currently provided state of the concentric circles method.


Edited by RealDCSpilot
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16 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Yeah, makes all sense if you get it in the right ears. Of course the PNVS will match less when you are looking more to each side or up and down. The mismatch will grow the more you look away from the center, that's the paralax between your eyes (head) position and the sensor package on the nose. But if you are on the ground and look straight forward center, reference points like horizon line and objects should match almost perfectly. An offset of the PNVS in left or right -> after boresighting, WHEN LOOKING STRAIGHT FORWARD <- is really bad because your IHADSS will always aim with that offset later when you start attacking a target in flight. An up and down offset would be much easier to compensate. Checking your PNVS against the front center view is just a method to verify the result of boresighting in VR, because you can easily mess it up there when only using the currently provided state of the concentric circles method.

 

Boresighting doesn't even effect the PNVS according to Casmo, and looking straight on, things will appear lower than they actually are, just like pointing left or right, things will seem farther left or right than they actually are. The only thing boresighting does is align your LOS reticle with where you're actually looking and has no effect on your view in the PNVS whatsoever. So I recommend instead of focusing on the PNVS go out and shoot the gun or have your CPG set his ACQ source to PHS and see how accurate the slave is to where your head is actually pointing.


Edited by JSpidey
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That's not what he meant. Try boresighting with looking way off the BRU and check how your PNVS looks after that.

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4 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

That's not what he meant. Try boresighting with looking way off the BRU and check how your PNVS looks after that.

Okay it does effect the PNVS but it's completely normal for there to be offset even when looking straight when aligning properly, you need to be more concerned with your accuracy with slaving and using your LOS reticle to employ weapons than the PNVS, there will be an offset. That's normal, just align it how it states in the manual and that's the proper way to align it.


Edited by JSpidey
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We are running in circles here (not concentric 😉 ), ED has it on the list. Let's see what they will do about it.

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Just now, RealDCSpilot said:

We are running in circles here (not concentric 😉 ), ED has it on the list. Let's see what they will do about it.

There is no problem with it though, you want your PNVS to be 100% aligned with your eyes and that's not how it should be. I have no problems whatsoever doing it the way it states in the manual. My gun is dead accurate and slaving to my PHS or my GHS is dead accurate so I'm happy with it.

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5 minutes ago, JSpidey said:

There is no problem with it though, you want your PNVS to be 100% aligned with your eyes and that's not how it should be. I have no problems whatsoever doing it the way it states in the manual. My gun is dead accurate and slaving to my PHS or my GHS is dead accurate so I'm happy with it.

No, i just want it aligned when i look straight forward centered at horizon level on ground.


Edited by RealDCSpilot

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1 minute ago, RealDCSpilot said:

No, i just want it aligned when i look straight forward centered at horizon level on ground.

 

Sorry but objects should appear lower than what they actually are since the PNVS is lower than your head position and it doesn't take into account where your head is to counteract the offset. Maybe we can get an SME in here to shed some light on it but that's my take on it. I would try aligning it to where you want it (no PNVS parallax) and then have your CPG slave his TADS to your PHS and see how much of an offset there is. Since there's no technology in the Apache to counteract this parallax, when you don't see parallax, you're actually doing it wrong since now the PNVS thinks it's height is at your head's height. Also your aim will probably be much higher than it should be as a result and slaving too.

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18 minutes ago, JSpidey said:

There is no problem with it though, you want your PNVS to be 100% aligned with your eyes and that's not how it should be. I have no problems whatsoever doing it the way it states in the manual. My gun is dead accurate and slaving to my PHS or my GHS is dead accurate so I'm happy with it.

Ok @JSpidey, we get it, it's working for you. I'm glad for you. Honestly I am.

But, for some of us, the boresight alignment doesn't work properly. Again, we're not making this up.. Why would we? Whether it's HMD related, IHADSS rendering eye related, player seating position/distance related, procedure related, player error related, or something else, I don't know. Whatever it is (and I also hope ED will find it), something is either not correct or needs better explanation, as doing it "by the manual" apparently doesn't work for everyone.

 

This:

image.png

is just not what we see in VR.

It's either:

  • the BRU pattern that is aligned concentric

or

  • The LOS reticle is in the center of the BRU

 

But never both


Edited by sirrah
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ED is working on it already. There are enough other threads about troubles that are connected to boresighting, even for TrackIR users.

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6 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Ok @JSpidey, we get it, it's working for you. I'm glad for you. Honestly I am.

But, for some of us, the boresight alignment doesn't work properly. Again, we're not making this up.. Why would we? Whether it's HMD related, IHADSS rendering eye related, player seating position/distance related, procedure related, player error related, or something else, I don't know. Whatever it is (and I also hope ED will find it), something is either not correct or needs better explanation, as doing it "by the manual" apparently doesn't work for everyone.

I think the main issue is just the manual not explaining things properly and giving people the wrong impression about how something works, then people believe there's a problem when there never was.

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Just now, JSpidey said:

I think the main issue is just the manual not explaining things properly and giving people the wrong impression about how something works, then people believe there's a problem when there never was.

Perhaps, but one way or the other. Something is not correct. Either it's the manual or the ingame visuals.

 

But as @RealDCSpilot mentioned, ED already said they're investigating it, so I guess we can stop discussing it here 😉 

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6 minutes ago, JSpidey said:

I think the main issue is just the manual not explaining things properly and giving people the wrong impression about how something works, then people believe there's a problem when there never was.

I think it's the opposite. DCS just doesn't do the full calculation for the BRU sensor atm. They took a shortcut by assuming every head position is in the same spot, especially when it comes to height. That's why monitor users have no issue in 2D.


Edited by RealDCSpilot
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4 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

I think it's the opposite. DCS just doesn't do the full calculation for the BRU sensor atm. They took a shortcut by assuming every head position is in the same spot, especially when it comes to height. That's why monitor users have no issue in 2D.

 

To each their own I guess, I'm in VR with no issues. Best we can do is wait until ED finishes investigating the issue and decides if there is something actually wrong with it, or it's just people's lack of understanding of it.

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Just now, JSpidey said:

To each their own I guess, I'm in VR with no issues. Best we can do is wait until ED finishes investigating the issue and decides if there is something actually wrong with it, or it's just people's lack of understanding of it.

Maybe you should give lessons as the BRU whisperer 🙂

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7 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Maybe you should give lessons as the BRU whisperer 🙂

Casmo should make a dedicated video on the topic. Or Brad or Raptor should chime in and give their opinions on the matter, they're both very smart when it comes to the Apache and its systems.

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29 minutes ago, sirrah said:

But as @RealDCSpilot mentioned, ED already said they're investigating it, so I guess we can stop discussing it here 😉 

I hope too, or special tab - "always aligned" on/off.

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