reported Boresighting IHADSS in VR

[sirrah]

Just now, Hammer1-1 said:

Yeah you're right...that kind of explains why my shots at close range seem to be all over the place. But even still, he made then concentric, he stated to do as such, and he's the SME...

Yes, we all know that's the "official" right way to perform the procedure. This thread has been started because doing the alignment this this way (by the book) in VR, doesn't work properly (or at least has mixed results)

[Hammer1-1]

Im willing to bet the boresighted eye is set to the wrong side in VR, has anyone tried that?  maybe setting it to both?

[sirrah]

21 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Im willing to bet the boresighted eye is set to the wrong side in VR, has anyone tried that?  maybe setting it to both?

Well, it should work regardless to which eye the IHADSS is rendered. That said, given that irl it's right eye only, it should at least work properly with IHADSS set to right eye.

Personally I don't care if it works properly when rendered left eye, or both eye

[Hammer1-1]

I also wonder if you can just get really close to the BRU and scope it from there. If its a boresight scope, theres a chance you get scope shadow, so eye relief might actually be a thing in DCS. Im gonna test for a bit.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[Hammer1-1]

Well, found the solution.

When you align the IHADDS: when you focus on the IHADDS itself, you will see 2 BRU sights. When you focus on the BRU sight itself, you only see 1. So if you look at the IHADDS sight specifically, you will see the BRU is essentially showing  2 sets of circles - left eye and right eye . The key it appears, is to align BOTH of them concentric while keeping the IHADDS symbology smack dab between the two. Cant really get a screen grab of what I am talking about because it renders only one eye..and if I were to render both, they would need a bit of photoshopping to do to get my point across. Dont focus on the BRU; focus on the IHADDS symbology, center BOTH of the BRU's with the IHADDS symbology smack dab in the center, and voila...enjoy a good alignment. Think of it as those 3D pictures that used to be so popular in the 90's.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[sirrah]

6 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Well, found the solution.

When you align the IHADDS: when you focus on the IHADDS itself, you will see 2 BRU sights. When you focus on the BRU sight itself, you only see 1. So if you look at the IHADDS sight specifically, you will see the BRU is essentially showing  2 sets of circles - left eye and right eye . The key it appears, is to align BOTH of them concentric while keeping the IHADDS symbology smack dab between the two. Cant really get a screen grab of what I am talking about because it renders only one eye..and if I were to render both, they would need a bit of photoshopping to do to get my point across. Dont focus on the BRU; focus on the IHADDS symbology, center BOTH of the BRU's with the IHADDS symbology smack dab in the center, and voila...enjoy a good alignment. Think of it as those 3D pictures that used to be so popular in the 90's.

 

Really doing my best to understand what you're saying here, but I'm afraid I'm not completely with you on this one

Two BRU sights? As in looking forward cross-eyed?

Although I trust you that your method works in DCS, I can't imagine the boresight alignment procedure is supposed to be performed this way. And if it does, it could use some additional explaining in the manual

[Hammer1-1]

31 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Really doing my best to understand what you're saying here, but I'm afraid I'm not completely with you on this one

Two BRU sights? As in looking forward cross-eyed?

Although I trust you that your method works in DCS, I can't imagine the boresight alignment procedure is supposed to be performed this way. And if it does, it could use some additional explaining in the manual

Think of it like this: the BRU is rendered in both eyes, correct? If you stare at your HMD symbology and use your peripheral vision, you will see double vision past your HMD, therefore you will see 2 BRUs. Its like looking at your nose - you see 2, but if you go crosseyed you will see it as a single. So Take a look at the BRU, but focus on the HMD symbology and you will see 2 sets of circles - the one in the left eye and the one in the right eye.

 

I guess a better way to describe it is like iron sights on an M-16 or AR-15....the front sight  has 2 sides with the post set in the middle. Take the post out, but using the rear windage and elevation sight, align the rear sight between the 2 sides of the front sight.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[sirrah]

14 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Think of it like this: the BRU is rendered in both eyes, correct? If you stare at your HMD symbology and use your peripheral vision, you will see double vision past your HMD, therefore you will see 2 BRUs. Its like looking at your nose - you see 2, but if you go crosseyed you will see it as a single. So Take a look at the BRU, but focus on the HMD symbology and you will see 2 sets of circles - the one in the left eye and the one in the right eye.

 

I guess a better way to describe it is like iron sights on an M-16 or AR-15....the front sight  has 2 sides with the post set in the middle. Take the post out, but using the rear windage and elevation sight, align the rear sight between the 2 sides of the front sight.

 

I think I catch your drift now. I'll give it a shot.

Thought I still wonder if this is indeed what real Apache pilots do when they boresight the IHADSS.

[Hammer1-1]

1 hour ago, sirrah said:

I think I catch your drift now. I'll give it a shot.

Thought I still wonder if this is indeed what real Apache pilots do when they boresight the IHADSS.

No I doubt it...something is off thats all. I tried my method a couple of times, and it looks like its slightly off at close range...but its not all over the place like it was before. And by slightly, I mean A) range at auto, B) flying forward 80kts , and C) shooting at my 3 oclock 5 degrees down at around 100-300 yds Im hitting just aft and above of the HMD reticle. Its acceptable for me, but I dont know about the purists.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Hammer1-1

[sirrah]

1 minute ago, Hammer1-1 said:

No I doubt it...something is off thats all

hehe yeah, I was just about to edit my previous post:

I tried to reproduce your "2 BRU's" idea, but failed. Well, I can deliberately stare somewhere in the distance and see 2 BRU's and 2 sets of rings, but it doesn't make the alignment any better if I do it this way. Perhaps I'm just not capable of deliberately staring at the HMB reticle (is it even possible to stare with just one eye?)

 

The only way I'm able to get the IHADSS boresighted pretty accurate, is to just completely ignore the yellow rings and point my HMD reticle exactly in the center of the BRU (at that point the yellow rings are not at all concentric).

 

 

Let's wait and see if ED find out what's wrong  

[Rabies]

I find by pointing my HMD Reticle in the center of the BRU and then move the head position, ie, up, down, left, right, forward, backward etc. via the key commands, will move the yellow circles into the center of the BRU all the while keeping your HMD reticle centered, then hit that "cursor enter" when they align. Afterwards, adjust your seating position as normal and you are now a 30mm marksman-ish.

[JSpidey]

16 hours ago, Rabies said:

I find by pointing my HMD Reticle in the center of the BRU and then move the head position, ie, up, down, left, right, forward, backward etc. via the key commands, will move the yellow circles into the center of the BRU all the while keeping your HMD reticle centered, then hit that "cursor enter" when they align. Afterwards, adjust your seating position as normal and you are now a 30mm marksman-ish.

Yup

[Wizard1393]

Anyone else having even more trouble boresighting as CPG? Struggled last night with this. Usually succeed pretty well as Pilot. I don't know if the fact that the CPG is seated off center to the left from the boresight thingy adds to the trouble.

If you get an "off" boresighting at night, I got nauseous because the PNVS/TADS overlay on your right eye does not match up with what your left eye see.

[sirrah]

48 minutes ago, chrisofsweden said:

I don't know if the fact that the CPG is seated off center to the left from the boresight thingy adds to the trouble.

My initial thought would be exactly this.

In DCS you're not centered in the CPG seat which (although ED apparently considers it "correct as is"  ), which I think can only result in bad HMD alignment

Edited April 5, 2022 by sirrah

[frostycab]

I guess I'm just having a lot of luck as I don't usually have any problems with my alignment in VR, but it seems that people are getting rather hung up on the whole seating position during alignment thing. This isn't really a solution, just more of an observation .

I believe the alignment process is purely for angular alignment, not positional. Assume that both the gun and your alignment were 100% accurate in both position and angle, and let's say you want to hit a target at 1000m range straight ahead. Moving your head 30cm to one side and hitting the same spot means the angular correction would only be 0.00172° which is pretty much physically impossible to do accurately. 

However, only a 1° error in angular alignment at the same range equates to over 17m. At 5° that rises to over 87m. It's probably much easier to perform the alignment in the real aircraft, but I suspect many people are simply having trouble turning their heads precisely enough to get an accurate alignment. For me, trying to turn my head in miniscule increments actually makes my neck feel like it's "notchy" rather like trying to turn your eyes very, very slowly. 

The only way around it that I can see is for the system to have a degree of auto-correction during the alignment phase, whereby your own alignment will get "nudged" towards proper alignment by a couple of degrees. You'd still need to perform the alignment, but it would be a little more forgiving of angular error.

[Wizard1393]

1 hour ago, frostycab said:

I guess I'm just having a lot of luck as I don't usually have any problems with my alignment in VR, but it seems that people are getting rather hung up on the whole seating position during alignment thing. This isn't really a solution, just more of an observation .

I believe the alignment process is purely for angular alignment, not positional. Assume that both the gun and your alignment were 100% accurate in both position and angle, and let's say you want to hit a target at 1000m range straight ahead. Moving your head 30cm to one side and hitting the same spot means the angular correction would only be 0.00172° which is pretty much physically impossible to do accurately. 

However, only a 1° error in angular alignment at the same range equates to over 17m. At 5° that rises to over 87m. It's probably much easier to perform the alignment in the real aircraft, but I suspect many people are simply having trouble turning their heads precisely enough to get an accurate alignment. For me, trying to turn my head in miniscule increments actually makes my neck feel like it's "notchy" rather like trying to turn your eyes very, very slowly. 

The only way around it that I can see is for the system to have a degree of auto-correction during the alignment phase, whereby your own alignment will get "nudged" towards proper alignment by a couple of degrees. You'd still need to perform the alignment, but it would be a little more forgiving of angular error.

Your conclusion seems plausible to me. I also think that last bit sounds like a great idea. I was thinking along the lines of having a special option in the settings allowing for perfect alignment regardless. But your suggestion is better. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by chrisofsweden

[RuskyV]

I actually have to clasp my VR headset in my left hand to steady it because all the micro movements of my head are picked up while aligning, I mentioned in another post that it would be nice to have some sort of subtle damping that would null this out while not inducing nausea for normal movement. The open XR injector for MSFS has a function to reduce this.

Using my method I tend to get it a bit more accurate as stuff is not jumping around as much and I can align all circles and the centre cross hair a little better, still not perfect though.

[Hammer1-1]

You know what I just noticed? The left eye is centered in the cockpit. The left eye is absolutely lined up with the BRU scope. That shouldnt be....

[Mikaa]

20 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

You know what I just noticed? The left eye is centered in the cockpit. The left eye is absolutely lined up with the BRU scope. That shouldnt be....

I've also noticed that it's offcenter in 2D when messing around without TrackIR enabled. 

[Supmua]

I’m still having trouble with this, can never get it to align properly and that’s why I prefer hot start for now.  This is going to be tough to make it work right in VR since we don’t have exact same IPD, headset, eye offset, etc.  I don’t even use the default cockpit position as I find it a bit too low and too close.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Supmua

[pimp]

I've started using the R-Shift + R-Ctrl + NumPad-8 keys to adjust the head position camera up until the circles move close to the center of the BRU. Then, I adjust my head to get the circles dead-center. I believe this was the technique others were suggesting earlier in the thread, but I was resetting my view after boresighting which I should not have done. I am getting really good results using this approach.

[YoYo]

13 minutes ago, pimp said:

I've started using the R-Shift + R-Ctrl + NumPad-8 keys to adjust the head position camera up until the circles move close to the center of the BRU. Then, I adjust my head to get the circles dead-center. I believe this was the technique others were suggesting earlier in the thread, but I was resetting my view after boresighting which I should not have done. I am getting really good results using this approach.

I hope ED will fix it (or will do special tab as "always matched" for AH-64), I have TKL keyboard so cant use Num Keys :P.

Edited April 9, 2022 by YoYo

[71st_Mastiff]

I can not get bore sighted in the PiMax 8kx, it way off. I've tried both eyes rendered, and right eye I get no picture.

as you can see theres an issue with the screen shot showing correct FOV. when Forced check is off.

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by 71st_Mastiff

[PlainSight]

4 hours ago, pimp said:

I've started using the R-Shift + R-Ctrl + NumPad-8 keys to adjust the head position camera up until the circles move close to the center of the BRU. Then, I adjust my head to get the circles dead-center. I believe this was the technique others were suggesting earlier in the thread, but I was resetting my view after boresighting which I should not have done. I am getting really good results using this approach.

I confirm this works. In the pilot seat, I always have to raise the camera a bit to get circular rings when I look into the BRU. This with automatic ranging works very accurate every time.

[sirrah]

If you think performing the IHADSS boresight alignmet in the PLT seat is difficult, try do it in the CPG seat 

 

All advise here to alter the default VR position is well meant and very kind, though while it might offer a good work around, I really hope for a confirmation from ED that the default VR positions will be corrected at some point during further development.

 

Just step in the CGP seat and see how far to your right the BRU is. You'll need to move your head way to the right in order to at all see the yellow rings. It's so obvious that I'm surprised this still isn't acknowledged be ED.

 

 

 

Edit:

Also, the "solution" mark really needs to be removed from this thread. A work around is not a solution.

Edited April 20, 2022 by sirrah