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Ok so the Apache is cool...


razorseal

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But this F16 is insane. 

I feel like I'm cheating when I'm playing any AI right now. Is this what the real thing is like? I can point the nose to anything I desire anytime I want.

 

If this is what the real F16 flies like, you guys did an awesome job.

 

now on the other hand... the apache is driving me crazy and is going to take me some serious time to master. LOL

 

maybe I'll just stick with learning the F16's A2G capabilities some more. a true multi role fighter. lol

 

ps - is the Cat 1/3 switch actually working as intended?

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1 hour ago, CybrSlydr said:

Loving the Viper like I do, the Apache is frustratingly complicated.  Like...

Why can't it just be like the F-16?  Slew the TADS, TMS-UP to lock on to the target, missile away.  lol

Right? I spent the money on the module for their hard work, but I can tell I'm def going to be flying in the F16 way more than anything else...

 

 

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9 hours ago, CybrSlydr said:

Loving the Viper like I do, the Apache is frustratingly complicated.  Like...

Why can't it just be like the F-16?  Slew the TADS, TMS-UP to lock on to the target, missile away.  lol

Just another example showing the genius design of F-16's HOTAS system. 

AH-64 is made by the same manufacture as Hornet, which makes sense lol. 

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Dang, why can't the Apache have a bubble canopy and the ease-of-use as the Viper..? 😄

The Apache is complicated af, but awesome. To be honest, you see that it is the same manufacturer as the hornet. Tons of menus, lots of stuff to adjust and modes and submodes and... oh boy. But... You need all that stuff when working together with ground troops. It is necessary for the CAS role. That's why most attack helicopters are two-seaters.

The Viper was designed as a light weight fighter, became a fighter-bomber and then multirole but kept its simplicity. The Apache was designed for the CAS role, and for surviving in that dangerous environment- and for working together with JTAC, infantry, and even airplanes. It is a two-seater for a good reason.

I can't help myself but I need to admire the genius design of the F-16. It keeps the workload off the pilot, simple workflows. Point at it, pickle, kill it.


Edited by TobiasA
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19 hours ago, TobiasA said:

Dang, why can't the Apache have a bubble canopy and the ease-of-use as the Viper..? 😄

The Apache is complicated af, but awesome. To be honest, you see that it is the same manufacturer as the hornet. Tons of menus, lots of stuff to adjust and modes and submodes and... oh boy. But... You need all that stuff when working together with ground troops. It is necessary for the CAS role. That's why most attack helicopters are two-seaters.

The Viper was designed as a light weight fighter, became a fighter-bomber and then multirole but kept its simplicity. The Apache was designed for the CAS role, and for surviving in that dangerous environment- and for working together with JTAC, infantry, and even airplanes. It is a two-seater for a good reason.

I can't help myself but I need to admire the genius design of the F-16. It keeps the workload off the pilot, simple workflows. Point at it, pickle, kill it.

Indeed... and in a game where most of the time it's just you (single player or MP environment) single seaters just make sense. Not the biggest fan of AI copilot since it takes out the human error of that second idiot flying the aircraft with you LOL

19 hours ago, TobiasA said:

 

 

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Love the Viper update ! Now the Apache seems really complicated especially that I have never was interested in helos. I can’t even get the Apache off the ground and have no idea what to bind on the Hotas. It’s beautiful tho but it’s gonna take a lot of time for me for sure. Totally respect the real Apache pilots and of course the jet guys. I just don’t know where to start with the Apache … maybe basic helo tutorials first. Soooo confused !

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Apache is a LOT easier to start than the Viper.  lol  Waaaay fewer buttons to push (or I'm just skipping a lot...).

I do think I've streamlined the process of engaging targets, but NAV stuff is still beyond me - I just use Liberation, load up a CAS mission and go chase orange smoke.  lol

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Like everything in life once you take the time to understand it it becomes second nature. What I like about ED is each aircraft is like going to flight school and it feels like I am learning something real. I don't want it to be easy, I want it to be realistic and rewarding. Now I look at Viper as easy to fly when it was once complicated. I looked at the Hornet in the same way and I bet one day I will be telling people how easy the Apache is to fly once I put in the time to learn it. 


Edited by Checkmate
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Actually, I found the Viper really easy to fly back when I was 14 and I was flying FreeFalcon. That thing's cockpit design and HOTAS just rocks. I've flown a lot in the Hornet and Harrier since then, and I must say they're not quite on the same level of easy (doesn't help the Harrier still has a number of bugs). Apache is similar to the Hornet in concept. I think my biggest problem is that the Hornet tries to do too much with a single switch on the stick. The Viper's HOTAS, while having a lot of switches, generally has them do more or less the same thing all the time. Plus, the SPI concept is pretty great once you wrap your head around it working in concert with steerpoints. What takes a bunch of button pushing in the Hornet is the default in Viper.

After all these years, I will say it every time: the Viper is easy to learn and fly, almost too easy, because it does so much for you that you don't actually learn to fly if you start with it. It was FlightGear, some time after giving up on FreeFalcon (couldn't get into dynamic campaign due to absolutely horrendous mess FF documentation was), that actually taught me that.


Edited by Dragon1-1
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Am 24.3.2022 um 21:00 schrieb Dragon1-1:

Actually, I found the Viper really easy to fly back when I was 14 and I was flying FreeFalcon. That thing's cockpit design and HOTAS just rocks. I've flown a lot in the Hornet and Harrier since then, and I must say they're not quite on the same level of easy (doesn't help the Harrier still has a number of bugs). Apache is similar to the Hornet in concept. I think my biggest problem is that the Hornet tries to do too much with a single switch on the stick. The Viper's HOTAS, while having a lot of switches, generally has them do more or less the same thing all the time. Plus, the SPI concept is pretty great once you wrap your head around it working in concert with steerpoints. What takes a bunch of button pushing in the Hornet is the default in Viper.

After all these years, I will say it every time: the Viper is easy to learn and fly, almost too easy, because it does so much for you that you don't actually learn to fly if you start with it. It was FlightGear, some time after giving up on FreeFalcon (couldn't get into dynamic campaign due to absolutely horrendous mess FF documentation was), that actually taught me that.

 

Once you know the Viper, every other plane feels difficult. The SPI concept, the view outside (it is so easy to hold a formation with that bubble canopy), the whole HOTAS is simply a blast.

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F-16 HOTAS with DMS beats AH-64 cursor. Furthermore I prefer the TGP operation over TADS. Except maybe LMC. 

The other way around sight select and acquisition source always work the same way. Same as waypoint and target creation, just lase and store. DMS-ing (down) through the acquisition sources would also rock. 

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2 hours ago, TobiasA said:

Once you know the Viper, every other plane feels difficult. The SPI concept, the view outside (it is so easy to hold a formation with that bubble canopy), the whole HOTAS is simply a blast.

Every other besides the A-10, which borrowed many HOTAS concepts from the Viper. SPI management in the Hog is less rigid and makes TOOs easier, but OTOH, normal steerpoint-based SPI slaving takes a few more clicks. Also, it has a few more switches, but you don't have to fiddle with the dobber like in the Viper (which always struck me as one thing I'd like to move to either stick or the throttle).

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