I Found Apache is Harder to Fly than the Huey

[SCPanda]

Anyone feel the same? Huey wobbles but it's really not that hard to control, especially in a hover. Apache on the on the hand is very wobbly and almost impossible to control in a hover. 

[agamemnon_b5]

Seems many people are having that issue, regardless of setup.  Thrustmaster, Virpil, no extension, 20cm extension, doesn't seem to matter.

[Wizard1393]

Just set generous curves on the stick and it’s fixed. 

[RomaKrelian]

11 minutes ago, chrisofsweden said:

Just set generous curves on the stick and it’s fixed. 

Can confirm. Seems this one needs much bigger curves than other choppers, but it worked for me.

[Devrim]

Curves help a lot. Now Ah-64 flies (and hovers) like butter.

[evanf117]

like any light and manoverable helo it just takes a bit of getting normalized too

[Beirut]

22 minutes ago, chrisofsweden said:

Just set generous curves on the stick and it’s fixed. 

 

Haven't tried yet. Didn't even think of it. Thanks.

 

I feel like a surgeon in my Ka-50. Not so much in the Apache. 

[LooseSeal]

Yes, I initially used Wags setting of 8 on the curves, but personally I need a good bit more. It makes a huge difference.

But to each their own curvature value 

[Hiob]

I have to admit, even with plenty of curve set, I struggle a lot with a smooth and steady hover. In the hip I can pretty much turn on a dime (in comparison) when I take my time. The Apache is very twitchy in comparison. Hope I will adjust soon.

 

[FZG_Immel]

Since we don’t have a magnetic force stick that stops in the position when you force trim, we really need a reset to physical zero trim. 

[TobiasA]

You can trim to zero. Check the special options.

I have a curve of 8 on a warthog in both pitch and roll. Two things that even gave me a rage quit on the first evening:

- Figure out how the trim works. I went for the default trim option which requires you to recenter the stick and rudder after releasing the trim.
  IF you go for the second option, be sure to recenter stick and rudder as soon as you trim or you might mess up trim so bad that the chopper goes full deflection to any given direction.

- Don't go wild on the collective. If you are smooth on the collective, it won't require so much rudder input. With great power comes great responsibility. This is IMO the most powerful helicopter in DCS so if you add power, do it smooth.

Edited March 19, 2022 by TobiasA
Added more details later, initial post was too short to help anyone.

[S. Low]

I have no curves on my stick and no extension. It took me maybe 30 minutes to an hour to get the hover down. It is a very responsive helo and you’re likely doing these two things:

1) over correcting with too much input at low speeds. 
2) getting trim messed up 

[cow_art]

My guess is the Apache will get a lot easier to control once the remaining hold modes are implemented. Going fast already works well, but going slow feels a bit like driving the Ka-50 with all AP channels off. I mean, its definitely doable. But I find it quite challenging and I guess hovering the Apache without any hold modes is probably not how it's done in real life.

Edited March 19, 2022 by cow_art

[Rhinozherous]

Also had hard times with 0 curves... Curves up to 10 worked like magic! 

On the TM Warthog 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Rhinozherous

[RodBorza]

Yes, I've found it to be very wobbly, much worst than the Huey. The Huey I can master, the Ka-50 for me is flyable, the Hind is great once you learn how to live with the automatic rudder. 

But the Ah-64 is a wild Bronco.

NineLine posted that you must disable the games avionics and game flight model on the options page, as it seems to be causing a lot of trouble.

Also, some people are reporting that this lack of control issue is happening on the Instant Action missions and whenever you get the bird on a hot start. On training missions it seems that the helo works well.

  

 

[Jayhawk1971]

The Apache is a dream to fly, but I use a FFB stick, and VR, and that seems to help a lot. I find it a lot easier to handle than the Huey. Trim is your friend.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Jayhawk1971

[cfrag]

I found that after a short while, it's quite easy to control. WRT to the Huey - I can hover the Huey blindfolded, with both hands tied behind my back (well, or so I make myself believe). If you think you can get that level of muscle memory in just a couple of days, you are too optimistic. 

That being said, here's what helped me in the Apache: don't chase the hover vector. I turn it off (switch to cruise) immediately and only use outside cues (of course, VR helps immensely). 

Also - by whatever is holy to you: don't ever touch the Apache's trim. That's been killing me so many times now trying to come back from trimmed flight to a hover that I've learned to entirely fly the Apache without trim. It simply works against me. Hates me. Kills. Me.

And I still love my Huey  

[Gunfreak]

They Huey is much harder to fly for me, as the VRS takes me down. The Apache is much more forgiving there. I haven't quite figured out the hover, in the one mission I made. I started engaging APCs from some 7km range, and creeping closer at around 10-13knots. I do have problem keeping elevation hover/slow creep. I either go down or go up.

[Kifter1983]

I think the Apache is quite demanding of the pilot. Looking at the Blackshark with coaxial rotor system, its great control input damping/stabilisation system and it's auto hover hold - the design really does a lot for the pilot and enables multi tasking for weapons release and simultaneous aircraft control.

It's my opinion / feeling the Apache isn't built to that mindset, there's a dedicated pilot and a dedicated weapons officer and so there's not the need for automation to be helping the pilot out.

That said when we get the altitude hold feature, I think that will help a lot of people out as I think the collective on this powerful aircraft is surprisingly twitchy and responsive. Dancing about on the collective adding load/torque, removing load/torque back an forth in large quantities it's going to introduce a lot of destabilisation and make hovering very difficult. 

[Gunnar81]

7 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

Haven't tried yet. Didn't even think of it. Thanks.

 

I feel like a surgeon in my Ka-50. Not so much in the Apache. 

Start with an 8 on the curves for pitch, roll and even rudders. I went to 20 and it felt way to sluggish. Then it becomes waaaay easier to handle. I've never had curves on any other module but this one seems to be a must.

[Archduke]

I see I’m not the only one. Love the Huey and feel very much at home in it but the Apache felt… sluggish. However I’m sure it’s really the pilot aka me who’s sluggish. Takes time to get to know the beast, I guess.

[tusler]

I put the pedals to the option with no springs and found the game mode had been checked by default during install. Took out the checkmark and those 2 things totally fixed it for me, I can fly and trim it like the Huey. and hover almost hands off.

[frostycab]

I'm finding it a bit tricky to maintain a steady hover, even though I'm quite experienced in all the other DCS helis. Aside from requiring a lot of dancing on the pedals she seems to have a much more noticeable translating tendency than the others, requiring a touch of left cyclic to keep from drifting. 

[agamemnon_b5]

3 hours ago, Kifter1983 said:

there's a dedicated pilot and a dedicated weapons officer and so there's not the need for automation to be helping the pilot out.

 

Doesn't make sense considering older birds and other modern attack and utility birds have automated channels to assist.

 

That's like saying no tow-seat fixed wing needs autopilot because there is a guy in the back.  Doesn't work like that.

Edited March 19, 2022 by agamemnon_b5

[Mr_sukebe]

Probably worth remembering that the gross combat weight is nearly twice that of the Huey.

The Apache isn't a "light" helicopter.  Too much armour and weapons for that.