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Severe performance drop (2-4 fps) when joining a big MP server


QuiGon

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A buddy of mine experiences severe FPS drops when he joins big MP severs, like the Buddyspike BlueFlag severs (especially Buddyspike Syria). As soon as he joins the server his frames drop down to single digit fps counts, mostly ranging between 2-4 fps. This happens even before spawning in an aircraft (in the slotting screen).

It's a mystery to me, why he has such bad performance on those servers, because his hardware is really not that bad: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processo, AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT 8GB VRAM, 32GB DDR4 RAM
The game runs totally smooth for him on normal singleplayer and coop missions.

What's also really weird: When this issue occurs (and it occurs every time when he joins such a server) both his CPU and his graphics card are running at pretty low usage, but his RAM is at maximum capacity. This is odd as 32GB should be plenty and to be sure he even added a fixed 32GB page file.

So I wonder: With this hardware setup, is 2-4 fps on big MP servers really what one should except, because I doubt it very much?
What could be the issue here?

Edit: Log File added here: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/296032-severe-performance-drop-2-4-fps-when-joining-a-big-mp-server/#comment-4922189


Edited by QuiGon

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I always get this (fps drop, which shows as stutters) on heavily scripted missions and missions with many units (including statics). I have also suspected that network/netcode transfer adds to this. When joining the server, check the network activity on Task Manager to see if it is spiking.

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Same thing for a friend of mine since latest update. He has a good rig with 64 GB of RAM but he suffers 2-4 fps as soon as he connects in multiplayer.

Odd thing is that we didn't change anything in the (scripted) mission we run on our VFW server and he could fly that mission at max fps before updating DCS.


Edited by Saruman
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9 minutes ago, Saruman said:

Same thing for a friend of mine since latest update. He has a good rig with 64 GB of RAM but he suffers 2-4 fps as soon as he connects in multiplayer.

Odd thing is that we didn't change anything in the (scripted) mission we run on our VFW server and he could fly at max fps before updating DCS.

Interesting, what's his hardware setup?

Another buddy of me, also equipped with a Ryzen 9, has now reported similar issues, also on BlueFlag Syria.

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Interesting: As soon as he (my first buddy that I talked about in the OP) clicks on "Quit to Desktop" and the "Are you sure you want to quit? Yes/No" message appears, his FPS instantly increases from ~5 FPS to ~40 FPS as long as the "Are you sure you want to quit? Yes/No" is visible. The game is not paused when the message is shown (because multiplayer) and he can still move his head around in the background. If he clicks on "No" to continue to play the FPS drops down to ~5fps again.


Edited by QuiGon

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Ryzen 5600X, 12GB system mem (available) with auto adjusted VMEM. No issues on the 4YA Syria capture bases server. Typically 25-30 players. Oh and VR so that's an extra burden on gpu even though its 16GB. Would be interested to hear if the 4YA server is just as bad.


Edited by CobaltUK

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So, here's a short log file of him, showing him launching DCS and joining the BlueFlag Syria server.
Again, he has less than 5 FPS on the slotting menu, and around 10 FPS when he spawns in an aircraft. The framerate stays like this and does NOT improve over time.
dcs.log

1 hour ago, CobaltUK said:

Ryzen 5600X, 12GB system mem (available) with auto adjusted VMEM. No issues on the AYA Syria capture bases server. Typically 25-30 players. Oh and VR so that's an extra burden on gpu even though its 16GB. Would be interested to hear if the AYA server is just as bad.

He just tested that: On the 4YA PVE Syria server as well as on the Through the Inferno Syria server, his FPS are between 40-60.


Edited by QuiGon
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I dunno which CPU my friend has, but it has 12 cores from dcs.log. Then 64 GB Ram and a 1080 TI.

You know what? I compared your friend's dcs.log with my friend's dcs.log and they have the same exact ERROR reported in their logfiles.

My own log, instead, does not have those multiple errors.


Edited by Saruman
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UPDATE: Even the friend of mine has a Ryzen 9. I suspect something's going on with Ryzen 9 and some missions after latest update.

My friend has problems with Blueflag mission and with our own mission. If I'm not wrong, the only thing our mission and Blueflag's one has in common is that they use warehouse system by ED with limited ammos and active suppliers.

I guess ED could investigate if last update brought some problems between Ryzen 9 and ED's warehouse system when the mission uses limited ammos and suppliers warehouses.


Edited by Saruman
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1 hour ago, Saruman said:

UPDATE: Even the friend of mine has a Ryzen 9. I suspect something's going on with Ryzen 9 and some missions after latest update.

My friend has problems with Blueflag mission and with our own mission. If I'm not wrong, the only thing our mission and Blueflag's one has in common is that they use warehouse system by ED with limited ammos and active suppliers.

I guess ED could investigate if last update brought some problems between Ryzen 9 and ED's warehouse system when the mission uses limited ammos and suppliers warehouses.

You might be on to something there. I will check with my buddy if the frame drop occurs on missions that make use of the warehouse system.

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21 hours ago, Saruman said:

I guess ED could investigate if last update brought some problems between Ryzen 9 and ED's warehouse system when the mission uses limited ammos and suppliers warehouses.

We just tested it (empty mission with 2 slotable aircraft on an airbase with limited warehouse supplies) and everything was smooth (50+ FPS). So that doesn't seem to be the issue.

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Disclaimer: my system is THE slowest ever, even at 1280x768 (10fps in heavy MP):
I play a lot of MP, and with the latest update and Apache intro, I see 2 things:

1- When I view an Apache in F2 in MP, the ground/dirt/land takes 2-4 seconds to load.  This does not happen with any other aircraft when I view F2 in MP.

2- When MP servers spawn a new ground assault, I get a total image freeze for a few seconds.  Sound keeps going, and when my image un-freezes I'm at the current time (so my plane flies blindly for a few seconds).  Never happened before the latest update.

Good news for me:: I just got the parts for my new 5600x, 3070 system build!

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15 hours ago, QuiGon said:

We just tested it (empty mission with 2 slotable aircraft on an airbase with limited warehouse supplies) and everything was smooth (50+ FPS). So that doesn't seem to be the issue.

It's not simply the limited ammo. It's the re-supply system used by ED for warehouses with limited supply. As you know, you can configure warehouses with limited ammos and you can decide that those warehouses: i) must check for their stock every n minutes, ii) must ask for replenishment when a certain treshold is reached, and iii) that the replenishment must reach the warehouse at a given speed by predefined other warehouses of your choice.

Our internal mission, as the Blueflag one, uses this whole complex system by ED, that is, not only the limited ammo, but the whole re-supply chain logistics. Well, I disabled it and my friend can now fly at full FPS! If I re-enable this whole warehouse system by ED, my friend comes back at 3-4 FPS.

In the meanwhile, I made him set his preload radius to the maximum value. Now, in the forecoming hours, I'll enable again the whole resupply chain logistics on one base to see if the problem depended on preload radius or on the logistics by ED.

Should it come out it depends on logistics system by ED, I'm going to open a new thread reporting the thing to ED, because, in that case, something's going on on their side, especially for Ryzen 9. 

The thing that only a very few people is reporting this, also on Blueflag Discord, must depend on the fact that only a small, small bunch of missions implement the whole resuplly thing by ED. 99% of missions set unlimited ammos and therefore no resupply system.


Edited by Saruman
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I saw this a couple of times. The most interesting was one of my own servers. I updated it for Apache and changed a lot of things, but it's sub 1 FPS on joining. I noted that a local player didn't have the issue, in VR. WHen I had it running locally, it wasn't the same behaviour either.

This means something is network related as that is the only change, but it doesn't really give much data. There is nothign in the logs, when I added a FPS count it only showed the server had OK FPS and I didn't.

I don't use warehousing.

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Nobody else in my VFW had the problem (including myself) except the only guy, among us, using Ryzen 9 (like QuiGon's friend with the same issue). My friend had the issue with our mission and with Blueflag's (Buddyspike) one, not on other multiplayer missions.

This is why I started thinking which common element our internal mission and the Blueflag's one have, and whole warehousing thing (that is, with resupply logistics chain) seemed to me the appropriate answer. Disabled it and my friend can now play at good FPS. 

His log was originally full of errors, the same errors that are in the log of QuiGon's friend (posted above in this same thread) and that are absent in my own logfile.

In particular, my attention fell on the following errors from my friend's logfile:

2022-03-21 16:20:55.982 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Destruction shape not found AVIASHTAB_CRASH
2022-03-21 16:20:55.983 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Destruction shape not found GAZ-66_P_1
2022-03-21 16:20:55.983 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Destruction shape not found KAMAZ-FIRE_P_1
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object DURANDAL with id=62 already declared in table BombTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object AV8BNA_AERO1D_EMPTY with id=299 already declared in table ContainerTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object M2KC_02_RPL541_EMPTY with id=603 already declared in table ContainerTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object M2KC_08_RPL541_EMPTY with id=604 already declared in table ContainerTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object M2KC_RPL_522_EMPTY with id=605 already declared in table ContainerTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object AIM-9 with id=22 already declared in table MissileTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object AIM-9P with id=135 already declared in table MissileTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object AIM-9X with id=136 already declared in table MissileTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object AIM_7 with id=21 already declared in table MissileTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object HB_F14_EXT_PHX_ALU with id=320 already declared in table MissileTable
2022-03-21 16:20:55.985 ERROR   EDOBJECTS: Object X-59M with id=54 already declared in table MissileTable

Now, I don't obviously know the source code by ED, but that smells to me like ContainerTable and MissileTable are tables having to do with with stock in warehouses.


Edited by Saruman
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1 hour ago, Saruman said:

It's not simply the limited ammo. It's the re-supply system used by ED for warehouses with limited supply.

I totally forgot about this part of the warehouse system :doh:
I'll check this with my Ryzen9-equipped friend! :thumbup:


Edited by QuiGon

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5 hours ago, Saruman said:

It's not simply the limited ammo. It's the re-supply system used by ED for warehouses with limited supply.

Hmm, I think we tested this now as well (see screenshot), but did not notice any issues either. :dunno:
Unless there is something more to it than just activating limited equipment and setting up suppliers?

Warehouse.png

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like this thread describes the same issue.

He is also using a Ryzen CPU, just like the reports in this thread here, so there might indeed be something wrong with Ryzen CPUs since the Apache update, especially when flying on Syria @BIGNEWY.


Edited by QuiGon

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  • ED Team

Syria has some performance tweaks to come in a future update. 

I am not seeing an issue personally but I am NVIDIA / INTEL and have a high end machine so I often miss performance related problems on my end. I will pass the feedback on to the team however

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